Is Monsanto evil?

OrbitalDawn

Ulysses Everett McGill
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http://www.quora.com/Is-Monsanto-evil/answer/Franklin-Veaux?srid=kDR&share=1

I used to believe Monsanto was evil.

Seriously. I've never been impressed by the hysterical anti-GMO rants; they're as uninformed and anti-intellectual as antvaxxers. But I did still buy into the "Monsanto is teh eeeeebil" propaganda. In fact, I wanted to blog about how evil Monsanto was. But, because I like being thorough and citing my sources in my blog posts, I started researching the company's history.

And I learned that Monsanto totally is not the company I believed.

First, I thought it was enormous. It's not. As corporations go, it's actually not all that big. It's about the same size as Whole Foods. It's smaller than Starbucks and The Gap. It's way smaller than UPS and 7-11.

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Then I read the company's history, and learned that people who talk about things like how Monsanto made Agent Orange, they're showing ignorance of a simple fact I also used to be ignorant of: there are two Monsantos.

The first Monsanto was Monsanto Chemical, a company that manufactured food additives, industrial chemicals, and plastics. This Monsanto no longer exists. In the late 1990s, it developed the drug Celebrex. Pfizer bought this Monsanto in 2002.

The other Monsanto is Monsanto the seed company. In 1996, Monsanto (the chemical company) bought an agricultural company. In 2002, when Pfizer bought Monsanto (the chemical company), they weren't interested in the agribusiness, so they spun off the agricultural company as Monsanto (the seed company). Monsanto (the seed company) was distinct from Monsanto (the chemical company), with its own bylaws, a different board of directors, and different management from Monsanto (the chemical company). Monsanto (the seed company) kept the name "Monsanto" because they felt it would be expensive to change.

I bet they regret that decision now.

Was Monsanto (the chemical company) evil? Certainly they were ruthless. A lot of things they're accused of, though, aren't necessarily true--at least the way people say they are. For instance, the Agent Orange thing. Agent Orange wasn't invented by Monsanto. It was invented by the DoD. The primary manufacturer wasn't Monsanto. It was Dow Chemical. When Dow couldn't manufacture it fast enough, the government turned to overflow suppliers, including Hercules, the Diamond Shamrock Corporation, Uniroyal (the tire manufacturer), Thompson Chemical Company, and, yes, Monsanto (the chemical company). But strangely, only Monsanto gets blamed for it--you never see folks boycotting Uniroyal tires over Agent Orange! That seemed weird to me, so I kept researching.

Monsanto (the chemical company) was only incidentally interested in agribusiness. Monsanto (the chemical company) developed the herbicide glyphosate in 1970. The patent on glyphosate expired in 2000, two years before Pfizer bought Monsanto (the chemical company). Pfizer wasn't interested in making herbicides, so Monsanto (the seed company) kept the glyphosate business. They still make glyphosate, but they're not a huge manufacturer--because the patent has expired, most glyphosate manufacturer these days is in China.

So what about Monsanto (the seed company)? I keep reading tons of stories about how evil it is, but when I go to validate those stories, they tend to turn out not to be true.

A lot of folks fear GMOs, for the same reasons a lot of folks fear vaccines--there's a lot of bad info out there. Some of it (like "GMOs aren't tested" or "GMOs cause cancer") is demonstrably false. But that conversation is outside the scope of the question.

Monsanto gets a lot of its bad reputation on the basis that it makes GMOs and people are frightened of GMOs. A lot of other companies also make GMOs, but Monsanto is singled out for special hate, even though it's not the biggest company in the GMO business (ConAgra, for instance, is bigger).

A lot of folks don't like that Monsanto patents seeds. That's just ignorance. All seed companies, including organic seed companies, patent seeds. A seed does not have to be GMO to be patented. The first seed patents were issued in the 1800s, long before GMOs existed.

A lot of folks don't like that farmers aren't allowed to save seeds from GMO crops. Well, farmers also can't save seeds from patented organic or conventional crops either. Or from hybrid crops (seeds from hybrid crops don't tend to breed the desired traits reliably). But I grew up in a farm town, and I've never met a farmer who wants to save seeds. It's bad for business. Seeds are one of the cheapest parts of running a farm. Farmers who save seeds have to dry, process, and store them. Farmers who buy seeds get a guarantee that the seeds will grow; if they don't, the seed company will pay them.

People say that Monsanto is evil because they sue farmers for accidental contamination of their fields. I looked, but I couldn't find any court cases of this. I did find court cases where farmers denied stealing seeds and said it must be contamination, but in all those cases, a jury found they were lying. (If someone inspects your field and 98% of the plants growing on it are a patented variety, that's not accidental contamination.)

And some of the claims I kept reading about Monsanto's evil were just...weird. Like a web site I found that said Monsanto's neonicitoid-coated seeds kill bees. Well, I mean, yes, neonics might be harmful to bees, but...er, um...

...that technology was developed by Bayer, not Monsanto! Bayer is a totally different company that's a competitor of Monsanto.

Or the idea that Monsanto controls the world's food supply (I'm sure they'd love to, but they don't own more than about 35% of the market in any of the products they make). Or that Monsanto has paid off all the world's scientists to engage in a vast conspiracy to say GMOs are safe when they're really not. Look, ExxonMobil is enormous compared to Monsanto, and with their vast piles of money they can't pay off all the world's scientists to say global warming isn't a thing! If ExxonMobil can't afford to pay off scientists, how can a company that's smaller than Starbucks?

So after looking into it, I was forced to change my mind and conclude that Monsanto (the seed company) isn't particularly evil, at least not in a way that other corporations aren't. ConAgra actually seems more evil, if you look at biotech companies. Monsanto (the chemical company) seemed more evil, and it's perhaps appropriate it was bought by Pfizer, which is definitely evil. But Monsanto (the seed company)? Not so much.
 
I'd prefer not to buy GM foods, but, whatever blows your hair back.......
 
Evil ConAgra? Evil Pfizer?

Author has a rather naive view of evil. Ridiculous, actually.

At least he got a little educated about Monsanto. So there's hope he can grow a little.
 
A while back, I read this article in National Geo: http://www.nationalgeographic.com/foodfeatures/green-revolution/ --- I am not quite sure what to think any more when you hear quotes from scientists like this and how much is propaganda:

Prospects like that have made Zeigler a passionate advocate of biotechnology. White-bearded and avuncular, a self-described old lefty, Zeigler believes the public debate over genetically modified crops has become horribly muddled. “When I was starting out in the ’60s, a lot of us got into genetic engineering because we thought we could do a lot of good for the world,” he says. “We thought, These tools are fantastic!

“We do feel a bit betrayed by the environmental movement, I can tell you that. If you want to have a conversation about what the role of large corporations should be in our food supply, we can have that conversation—it’s really important. But it’s not the same conversation about whether we should use these tools of genetics to improve our crops. They’re both important, but let’s not confound them.”

Zeigler decided on his career after a stint as a science teacher in the Peace Corps in 1972. “When I was in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, I saw a cassava famine,” he says. “That’s what made me become a plant pathologist.”

When reading the background about how rice was modified to deal with being fully submerged in water and how this improved crop production in asia, I do think that improving of genetics have a place.
 
Monsanto sued small famers to protect seed patents, report says

Agricultural giant has won more than $23m from its targets, but one case is being heard at Supreme Court this month

The agricultural giant Monsanto has sued hundreds of small farmers in the United States in recent years in attempts to protect its patent rights on genetically engineered seeds that it produces and sells, a new report said on Tuesday.

The study, produced jointly by the Center for Food Safety and the Save Our Seeds campaigning groups, has outlined what it says is a concerted effort by the multinational to dominate the seeds industry in the US and prevent farmers from replanting crops they have produced from Monsanto seeds.

More here : http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/feb/12/monsanto-sues-farmers-seed-patents
 
Monsanto is indirectly responsible for the dramatic increase farmer suicides in India. Those farmers were told they could improve their yields with GM crops and were encouraged to take out loans in order to buy the seeds along with the proper pesticides and fertilisers. The crops, though, did not deliver as promised and suddenly many many farmers found themselves with debts they could not service.
 
Monsanto is indirectly responsible for the dramatic increase farmer suicides in India. Those farmers were told they could improve their yields with GM crops and were encouraged to take out loans in order to buy the seeds along with the proper pesticides and fertilisers. The crops, though, did not deliver as promised and suddenly many many farmers found themselves with debts they could not service.
Source or gtfo.
 
How is this different to any other company protecting its IP?

I have no issues with GM In principle, especially since hybridisation of crops by design have occurred over thousands of years to improve quality, yield and pest resistance. GM crops are just the more modern way of doing this.

My issue is with the permenant "ownership" of the product. that it deals with the food supply, more importantly staple crops. To be beholden to a company indefinitely for your food supply is dangerous in my opinion.

Their product can also act a contaminant in the food supply. If they wanted to prevent the regrowth of seeds, they could just ensure that the seeds produced are sterile, therefore will not "infect" other farms and will be unable to grow unless purchased from monsanto themselves.

That they have not done this is a deliberate ploy to ensure that their crop spreads as far as possible without anyone's choice. There have been cases of non GM farms being contaminated with GM crop growth. Who is ultimately responsible for that? And why does the farmer then have to pay Monsanto?

Then there is the issue of seed. You purchase seed from a third party, and it is contaminated. Is that seed actually owned by you are not?
 
I have no issues with GM In principle, especially since hybridisation of crops by design have occurred over thousands of years to improve quality, yield and pest resistance. GM crops are just the more modern way of doing this.

My issue is with the permenant "ownership" of the product. that it deals with the food supply, more importantly staple crops. To be beholden to a company indefinitely for your food supply is dangerous in my opinion.

Their product can also act a contaminant in the food supply. If they wanted to prevent the regrowth of seeds, they could just ensure that the seeds produced are sterile, therefore will not "infect" other farms and will be unable to grow unless purchased from monsanto themselves.

That they have not done this is a deliberate ploy to ensure that their crop spreads as far as possible without anyone's choice. There have been cases of non GM farms being contaminated with GM crop growth. Who is ultimately responsible for that? And why does the farmer then have to pay Monsanto?

Then there is the issue of seed. You purchase seed from a third party, and it is contaminated. Is that seed actually owned by you are not?

You obviously didn't read the article. The percentage of "contamination" in crops in cases Monsanto have pursued is way to high to be the result of accidental contamination. You're repeating supposition. How do you produce sterile seeds. Care to explain the process?

If you but stolen goods who do the goods belong to?
 
You obviously didn't read the article. The percentage of "contamination" in crops in cases Monsanto have pursued is way to high to be the result of accidental contamination. You're repeating supposition. How do you produce sterile seeds. Care to explain the process?

If you but stolen goods who do the goods belong to?

Are we taking about TV's , mobile phones or bags of seed here?

How do you ascertain what % of the seed is owned by who when you are buying a few sacks of seed? Can you look at a seed and ascertain origin? And can be directly related to the contamination on farms in the first place.

As for seed that provide sterile offspring, it has been done for years in the seed industry. Farmers who chose to have to buy new hybrid seeds every year to grow certain strains of maize. How can Monsanto not do the same thing

Edit : on the sterility issue : "Cytoplasmic male sterility" on @Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytoplasmic_male_sterility
 
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One of the key cases was this one :

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto_Canada_Inc_v_Schmeiser

Some dissertations on the said case:

http://scholar.google.co.za/scholar...arr&ei=rv3kVNu2KYOvaZrkgsAM&ved=0CBkQgAMoATAA


http://scholar.google.co.za/scholar...arr&ei=rv3kVNu2KYOvaZrkgsAM&ved=0CBoQgAMoAjAA

Monsanto narrowly won the case, and it highlights some of the issues I mentioned in an earlier post.

This reminds me of the Ricetec case where a US company essentially patented strains basmati rice in the US, based on parameters which have existed in the rice in India for hundreds of years, locking in the US market and ensuring that the original product from origin could not be sold there....this was challenged by activists and partially overturned.

Of the 18 claims that the company had claimed to have 'invented' , only 3 were upheld

Read more on that case here or Google it:

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/25/business/india-us-fight-on-basmati-rice-is-mostly-settled.html

http://www1.american.edu/ted/basmati.htm


If you think a profit making company can ascertain right from wrong without a social backlash, you are sadly mistaken. And the fact that is something to do with our good supply, the stakes are that much higher
 
[video=youtube;LsglbfZLc_0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsglbfZLc_0[/video]
 
Critics slam Obama for "protecting" Monsanto


LINDSEY BOERMA
CBS NEWS
Mar 28, 2013 2:13 PM EDT

iMANDEL NGAN/AFP/Getty Images

There's no love lost between Washington and the American public, it seems, five days after Congress for the first time in years managed to handle a budget-related issue without reaching the brink of crisis.

Protesters have descended on Pennsylvania Avenue outside the White House this week, enraged at a potentially health-hazardous provision they allege lawmakers inserted surreptitiously into a continuing resolution (CR) that will fund the government through the remainder of the fiscal year. The bill sailed through the Capitol on Friday; President Obama signed it into law on Tuesday.

Opponents have termed the language in question the "Monsanto Protection Act," a nod to the major agricultural biotech corporation and other like firms geared at producing genetically modified organisms (GMO) and genetically engineered (GE) seeds and crops. The provision protects genetically modified seeds from litigation suits over health risks posed by the crops' consumption.


Full article here: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/critics-slam-obama-for-protecting-monsanto/
 
So in essence...from the last few post:

1. We are legally absolved blame of any harmful effects of our products

2. We are against labeling of our products for what they are as people might not want them...although everyone else is meant to put their ingredients on products

3. If our patented crops contaminate your fields, that's your problem to sort out.....you can not regrow any of it because it's owned by us. And we are not responsible for the said contamination or the losses you might occur due to the destruction of your organic/non gmo product.

4. If the contamination that has occurred is above 1%...then we are going sue your asses unless you pay us money. It doesn't matter whether the contamination occurred due to weather patterns, cross pollination or any other reason...you are at fault
 
Are we taking about TV's , mobile phones or bags of seed here?

How do you ascertain what % of the seed is owned by who when you are buying a few sacks of seed? Can you look at a seed and ascertain origin? And can be directly related to the contamination on farms in the first place.

As for seed that provide sterile offspring, it has been done for years in the seed industry. Farmers who chose to have to buy new hybrid seeds every year to grow certain strains of maize. How can Monsanto not do the same thing

Edit : on the sterility issue : "Cytoplasmic male sterility" on @Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytoplasmic_male_sterility
According to the wiki link the farmer in question wasn't sued for having contaminated crops. He was sued for discovering contaminated crops, using Roundup to eliminate the non-monsanto portion of the crop, harvesting, storing and selling crops almost entirely grown from Monsanto seeds.

That's very like finding your neighbors washing in your yard and opening a thrift store as opposed to having a few of your neighbors socks mixed up in your washing.
 
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