Is online piracy theft?

Is online piracy theft?

  • Yes

    Votes: 65 24.0%
  • No

    Votes: 167 61.6%
  • Other

    Votes: 39 14.4%

  • Total voters
    271

rvZA

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Jan 3, 2021
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Online piracy, specifically downloading, has never been a crime under any law in South Africa. Neither should it ever be one.
 

rambo919

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Not willing to pay, but willing to pirate, odd, so there must be value then?
If literally no one is willing to pay.... then there is at best disposable value to the product.... which mean it is not of sufficient worth that anyone feels compelled to reward the creator.

On the other hand, products that have no price tag to them often attract large patronage anyway because the users feel compelled to do so due to it's high quality. You have people that in their personal capacity spend thousands every month on open source software.... more sometimes than commercial alternatives would cost.

At the end of the day, the income a creator gets from his product is his fault either way.
 

rh1

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Aug 5, 2011
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Speaking of morality, what's your thoughts on using a VPN to access geographically restricted content?
Joke: As an African, why should I let the white imperialists decide what I can and cannot watch, this is the same mindset that gave us bantu education, as they seek to control our very thoughts, the right to decide, the right to watch contents, the right to pay for such content.

So did I do the impression right. Make it politcal, black against white. Lol.
 

Fulcrum29

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If literally no one is willing to pay.... then there is at best disposable value to the product.... which mean it is not of sufficient worth that anyone feels compelled to reward the creator.

On the other hand, products that have no price tag to them often attract large patronage anyway because the users feel compelled to do so due to it's high quality. You have people that in their personal capacity spend thousands every month on open source software.... more sometimes than commercial alternatives would cost.

At the end of the day, the income a creator gets from his product is his fault either way.

You assume that no one is willing to pay to drive your own argument. Commercial property stays commercial property.

That which is labelled open-source, why do people spend thousands every month on what is supposed to be open-source?

I am active on other communities as well, and I regularly see the GNU arguments being pushed where licensing apply. People don't understand a reciprocity obligation.

It is not copyright, it is copyleft™
 

rh1

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Musicians make money nowadays from Youtube and streaming services and before COVID: concerts.

Anime, light novels and manga/manwa etc. If it was not for the free scanlations, translators and subtitlers, there would not be the current international market. They created a want for the products which the content owners capitalised on.
 

rambo919

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Jul 30, 2008
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You assume that no one is willing to pay to drive your own argument. Commercial property stays commercial property.
That's kinda what "if no one is willing to pay" literally means.....

That which is labelled open-source, why do people spend thousands every month on what is supposed to be open-source?

I am active on other communities as well, and I regularly see the GNU arguments being pushed where licensing apply. People don't understand a reciprocity obligation.

It is not copyright, it is copyleft™
All besides the point, I was just using it as an illustration of human behavior towards something that no one has to pay anything for.
 

Fulcrum29

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That's kinda what "if no one is willing to pay" literally means.....

You made that argument...

If you produce a product that no one is willing to pay for..... then that is your fault.

Another forum member said,

My highly qualified legal friend tells me it is not illegal to make a copy for your own use.

and I assure you that those legal professionals won't allow you to copy their legal 'copyrighted' documents without a fee for your own perusal. The chances are better they will want you to sign a retainer for access to those legal documents.

All besides the point, I was just using it as an illustration of human behavior towards something that no one has to pay anything for.

That I understand.

To name one product which is an example of license abuse. Xenforo is one of the most popular forum platforms and also one of the most misappropriated platforms.

The amount of nulled scripts and licensing platforms I have come across is crazy, and in most cases it is abused for profit.

What I am not a big fan of and abhor is patenting and patent trolling. I also believe that Intellectual Property rights should not be indefinitely protected and should be more open, which is obviously pending on jurisdiction. Copyright is generally fine, but the protection thereof should lapse.

I did a test the other day utilising OpenAI, and I was mighty surprised of the amount of article spins which is indeed under 'copyright' protection. There are people and entities profiting off copyright they are sleeping on, which is abuse in itself.

I am not a goody two shoes come to piracy, but I do pay my dues.
 

IamMe18

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
407
Why does the government care if I download Big Booty College Girls #6? It's not like there's a local store where I can buy it. They're not missing out on VAT
 

Illegal Allien

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Joined
Apr 5, 2018
Messages
139
I feel there is nuance to this question, is a penniless student downloading Photoshop to learn the tool the same as a design studio using bootleg AutoCAD on paid for projects?
 

DA-LION-619

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Joined
Aug 22, 2009
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I feel there is nuance to this question, is a penniless student downloading Photoshop to learn the tool the same as a design studio using bootleg AutoCAD on paid for projects?
Education licenses are often free for actual students.
 

Gyre

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Oct 16, 2011
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1,303
Not willing to pay, but willing to pirate, odd, so there must be value then?

I know for myself when I was younger, I got given a pirated game that I fell in love with. Later, I bought the expansions and addons to the game, and went on to buy the copy of the game 3 more times in my life.

Then there are games that are "free", but I have most likely spent thousands on them for the amount of entertainment value that the provide.

I think with the world today, there is too much risk associated with a lot of content that it isn't what you expect
 

Ryansr

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Jul 22, 2012
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It is Other. IMO the definition of online content does not make it something that can be "stolen" since it will still remain there after being taken.
 

Fulcrum29

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I know for myself when I was younger, I got given a pirated game that I fell in love with. Later, I bought the expansions and addons to the game, and went on to buy the copy of the game 3 more times in my life.

Then there are games that are "free", but I have most likely spent thousands on them for the amount of entertainment value that the provide.

I think with the world today, there is too much risk associated with a lot of content that it isn't what you expect

I totally agree.
 

Samayanaya

Active Member
Joined
May 13, 2009
Messages
91
When someone, other than yourself, sets up a projector in a public space, playing a movie for which they do not own any rights and circumstances allow you to be there to see the movie. What would you be guilty of?
You didnt support them financially and all you gained was the enjoyment of the movie. You just sat there, watched a movie and then left...
 

Fulcrum29

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When someone, other than yourself, sets up a projector in a public space, playing a movie for which they do not own any rights and circumstances allow you to be there to see the movie. What would you be guilty of?
You didnt support them financially and all you gained was the enjoyment of the movie. You just sat there, watched a movie and then left...

For all means and purposes, you were a spectator, and didn't take part in the redistribution.

EDIT:

From a legal perspective, it will need to be determined whether there is a relationship between you and the party who set up the viewing, and whether you knowingly consumed licensed material without authorised use. Ultimately there needs to be a test, but the wrongdoer would be how the law views it.

Say as a shopper, unlicensed music is being played in the store. You consume the music, but your purpose in being there is not to listen to the music. When you attend an unintentional viewing, what other pleasures did you partake in?
 
Last edited:

neoprema

Executive Member
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Jan 12, 2016
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5,210
Your torrents are not Piracy unless you're re-selling the product.

What everyone is doing is Copyright violations.
 

rambo919

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Jul 30, 2008
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I am not a goody two shoes come to piracy, but I do pay my dues.
So does everyone with a sense of honour. You pay what you can when you can because your ethics demand it.

Especially when it comes to business I am opposed to the use of any unlicensed software. If something aids in the creation of wealth and you do not pay your dues then you are effectively defrauding someone somewhere. It should be obvious that you must not build a foundation using shaky material.

This is why I elsewhere brought up government corruption. If someone considers piracy theft but does it anyway he has no right to complain when someone loots tax funds.

When it comes to digital content the rules are different than with physical content but there are rules if you just sit down and honestly think about it.

Of course I have my own idea's on the ethics of licensing but that is besides the point.
 

Bobbin

Executive Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
8,125
Whether we call it theft or copyright or blablabla, it seems it is still a moral violation either way. At its most fundamental moral root, it appears to be a parasitic interaction between parties. As the production of the media was at a cost/effort with no intention of free distribution/consumption which is presumably understood by all reasonable parties.
 
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