Is the ANC successful?

[chiskop]

Interesting Tassidar.

Voting etc
I'm not sure that looking at voting is particularly useful: Sure you can play with the figures and say that the number of ANC voters has decreased by 11% since '94 - but so what? They now have a two-thirds majority nationally, 9/9 provinces and 5/6 metros - an improvement since '94. All it tells us is that the ANC is very successful at getting votes/seats/provinces etc, and says nothing about governance.

International benchmarks
Looking at international benchmarks is far more useful. But maybe also a little harder to define. We're a developing country, we should be growing faster than the international avg. Does that mean that 3% growth is success? or 6%?

Thats GDP per capita growth - we should also look at MDG targets, um off the top of my head, access to water, electricity, phone lines or internet; literacy rates. And then a host of other less-measurable achievements like foreign policy.

Internal performance
Not sure that it is easy to establish benchmarks here, and too easy to rewrite the targets.

Compared to what?
And then for all of these, you've got to ask "compared to?" Are we comparing the ANC to the previous govt? (previous ANC or previous Nat?)
Maybe a pretend-DA govt? Our regional neighbours? or countries at a similar developmental stage like India or Brazil?

My (unscientific, gut-feel) conclusion: ANC did very well in the early years of SA's democracy but that the progress is slowing, a lot.

 

[Tassidar]

Interesting Tassidar.

Voting etc
I'm not sure that looking at voting is particularly useful: Sure you can play with the figures and say that the number of ANC voters has decreased by 11% since '94 - but so what? They now have a two-thirds majority nationally, 9/9 provinces and 5/6 metros - an improvement since '94. All it tells us is that the ANC is very successful at getting votes/seats/provinces etc, and says nothing about governance.

International benchmarks
Looking at international benchmarks is far more useful. But maybe also a little harder to define. We're a developing country, we should be growing faster than the international avg. Does that mean that 3% growth is success? or 6%?

Thats GDP per capita growth - we should also look at MDG targets, um off the top of my head, access to water, electricity, phone lines or internet; literacy rates. And then a host of other less-measurable achievements like foreign policy.

Internal performance
Not sure that it is easy to establish benchmarks here, and too easy to rewrite the targets.

Compared to what?
And then for all of these, you've got to ask "compared to?" Are we comparing the ANC to the previous govt? (previous ANC or previous Nat?)
Maybe a pretend-DA govt? Our regional neighbours? or countries at a similar developmental stage like India or Brazil?

My (unscientific, gut-feel) conclusion: ANC did very well in the early years of SA's democracy but that the progress is slowing, a lot.

Thanks for the elaboration. I was aware of many of these flaws as I wrote, though time constraints didn't allow me to go into full detail.

I also agree with your conclusion. My rationale is that Mbeki is developing more and more of a reputation of not holding his ministers accountable allowing them to do whatever they want to do other than running the country properly.

Of course the ANC isn't succesfull. Why oh why would black people be succesfull. What a stupid thing to expect. Goddamn black people.. eish...

 

[ic]

Moderator note...

Several posts unapproved.

 

[Tassidar]

Several posts unapproved.

Thanks ic. The thread threatened to quickly get derailed.

 

[dlk001]

The prevalence of appalling condiitons at state hospitals is not something new. I don't know about Bara since I grew up in DBN but as far as I know state hospitals have always been characterised by such problems. Prince Mshiyeni memorial and King Edward have always been in a dreadful condition.

I grew up in East London any my mom nursed at Frere for 40 yrs, retired 2003. I must admit that conditions are not the same as they used to be.

Having said that, the state of condition at Frere differed depending whether you were on "Whites Only" side of the hospital versus Blacks and colored sections. For at least 35 of the 40 yrs my mom worked there, there had always been those divisions. The Black section was like Cecilia Makhiwane (Mdantsane). Few doctors, long waiting periods, etc etc. Not as bad as Bara though!!

I also remember the shock when I compared Frere to Day Hospital (Duncan Village), and Cecilia Makhiwane (Mdantsane).

 

[Ricard]

I'm so sick of fake "democracy" ... I agree that when there are only 2 parties to vote on, it is a democracy ... put 1 more party and you lose your democracy. Yes, the party with the most votes will win (or is supposed to win as in some world wide cases) ... but think of it this way:

2 Party Vote:
Party A:40% Party B:60% ... party B wins ... 40% of the country did not want them = democracy.

3 Party Vote
Party A:30% Party B:30% Party C:40% .... Party C wins ... 60% of the country did not want them ... but they still won ... that isn't true democracy ... and thats the biggest problem with this system ... but unfortunately its the "best" system we have.

Your view is a bit skewed.... The country is ruled by parlament..

in a 2 party view, 60/40% split means that parliament is 60% A, and 40% B

It is 100% a representation of the votes. the Govt cant change anything without the backing of parliament. The key to a good democracy is this balance. There has to be a main party and opposition to keep the 'leader' in check.

 

[KillerX]

And currently there is no opposition. The ANC has enough seats in parliament to change our consitution. This is why they also get away with all their hair brained schemes.

 

[eitai2001]

Your view is a bit skewed.... The country is ruled by parlament..

in a 2 party view, 60/40% split means that parliament is 60% A, and 40% B

It is 100% a representation of the votes. the Govt cant change anything without the backing of parliament. The key to a good democracy is this balance. There has to be a main party and opposition to keep the 'leader' in check.

I know the best way to run the country ... think of it as a giant public corporation ... each year (at a presidential / public AGM) ... the president can give the public a list of projects ... From this we can vote on the various topics through our computers ... and we can decide what is best for ourselves. ... perfect solution

 

[BobbyMac]

I know the best way to run the country ... think of it as a giant public corporation ... each year (at a presidential / public AGM) ... the president can give the public a list of projects ... From this we can vote on the various topics through our computers ... and we can decide what is best for ourselves. ... perfect solution

For that to work you'd need to have a country where almost everyone has access to a computer (and the internet) - not just around 10% of the population.

 

[Nod]

For that to work you'd need to have a country where almost everyone has access to a computer (and the internet) - not just around 10% of the population.

Voting by cellphone?
Give people free access from Internet Cafe's for that day, to cast their vote?
I'm sure there are a few other solutions.

 

[Fudzy]

If the likes of Idols / Big Brother are anything to go by, voting via cellphone/computer would probably be the most fraudulent means of casting a vote.

 

[BobbyMac]

Voting by cellphone?
Give people free access from Internet Cafe's for that day, to cast their vote?
I'm sure there are a few other solutions.

Voting by cellphone is out (unless cellphones are registered to ID Numbers), and voting by internet cafe is not an option really.