Is this a decent mid-level PC?

[CataclysmZA]

These are power draws recorded from the wall from my last GPU review:

Core i7-4790, 8GB DDR3-2133, MSI GTX 970 Gaming. A decent 400W PSU with the right connectors is more than enough for even a GTX 980 in there.

As far as the PC itself goes, I think you can do better, but only if you build it yourself (which is easy). I also think you can drop the SSD for now and use the saved cash for a better starting platform, and ditch the optical drive for now unless you know you're going to be using one semi-regularly. As an example, using pricing from a few different places:

Core i5-6600K @ R3399
MSI Z170A PC Mate @ R2284
Cooler Master Hyper 212X @ R487
Corsair Vengeance LPX 2x 4GB DDR4-2400 @ R998
WD Blue 1TB 7200RPM @ R752
Cooler Master Vanguard-S 450W @ R785
Corsair Carbide 100R @ R595
LG23MP57HQ @ R2320
Windows 8.1 Home 64-bit DSP @ R1299
Total: R12,919

Now, that's over budget, sure. But, that's a faster system overall than what you had earlier, with better components to boot. Come Black Friday, you'll probably be able to find a few deals that'll put you under your original budget limit, saving you some money. I also used a Windows 8.1 license instead of Windows 10, because you can just download the Windows 10 ISO and use the 8.1 key to install it. There's always Linux, but that's not everyone's cup of tea.

And you can play games on the integrated HD 530 graphics. It's even overclockable. The only two issues with it is that it is low on the ROP count, so you'll be limited to gaming at 720p, and it doesn't have a lot of texturing units, so games based on the Far Cry/Frosbite engines don't handle so well on it. Most other things are prefectly playable at 720p with medium settings, including GTA V.

 

[Foxhound5366]

Good advice, thanks CataclysmZA. The problem with building it myself is I've never done that before, and I'd be worried about messing something critical up ... especially the whole 'apply CPU to motherboard' bit. Isn't that super-finnicky with special heating paste or whatever? I recall reading that, and it was enough to convince me to leave it to the professionals.

 

[CataclysmZA]

The most time consuming part of the build is putting on the CPU cooler, because it uses the Intel push-pin mounting. Everything else plugs in, slips on, or slides in to something else made only to fit that one thing, and it's really simple to DIY these days. There's no worrying about bending pins or cracking a circuit board. There are great videos on Youtube to help you, and cable management in something like the Carbide 100R is also simple.

Also, I think the Hyper 212X also comes with thermal paste in the box, so you really just follow the manual for the basic tips.

 

[Foxhound5366]

Interesting video Cataclysm, I just watched the whole thing ... and then a couple others for good measure.

I don't know if these things are any better today, but what worries me is that there's a lot of dependence on manuals for guidance (e.g. which motherboard headers to plug which cables onto), but I've seen manuals from Chinese manufacturers which were barely intelligible.

Now my main questions are just where to get rubbing alcohol, thermal paste and a nifty rubberised scraping tool like the guy in the demo video had!

 

[ponder]

Interesting video Cataclysm, I just watched the whole thing ... and then a couple others for good measure.

I don't know if these things are any better today, but what worries me is that there's a lot of dependence on manuals for guidance (e.g. which motherboard headers to plug which cables onto), but I've seen manuals from Chinese manufacturers which were barely intelligible.

Now my main questions are just where to get rubbing alcohol, thermal paste and a nifty rubberised scraping tool like the guy in the demo video had!

You're making this out to be way more complicated than it is. 90% alcohol you get from your chemist/pharmacy, thermal paste you buy from whomever you are buying your components from. If school kids can build their own pc I don't see why you can't.

 

[CataclysmZA]

Now my main questions are just where to get rubbing alcohol, thermal paste and a nifty rubberised scraping tool like the guy in the demo video had!

Manuals are your friend. Always read them! Everything's labeled for you anyway, and there's little chance of something frying.

Don't sweat it on the rubbing alcohol, the scraping tool, or the thermal paste. The first two aren't really necessary for the first application. The last one normally comes in the box with your cooler, or is pre-applied.

 

[Foxhound5366]

You're making this out to be way more complicated than it is. 90% alcohol you get from your chemist/pharmacy, thermal paste you buy from whomever you are buying your components from. If school kids can build their own pc I don't see why you can't.

Wow, you really win at empathy there ponder.

School kids generally don't 'build their own PC' with components costing a few thousand each, unless they're spoiled by their parents. Forgive me for being a bit cautious about zapping or snapping something, simply because I don't subscribe to your gung-ho "me have fingers, me can do brain surgery coz brain surgeons also have fingers" school of thought.

Thanks to you CataclysmZA, for showing how the same thing can be said in a much better way I'll give it a crack, maybe first on a low-end system where the costs of mistakes won't be too high.

 

[TJ99]

School kids generally don't 'build their own PC' with components costing a few thousand each,

Of course they do, you think school kids get their components for a lot cheaper? They have to pay the same price as everyone else.

My recommendations are:

Get a Haswell CPU instead, they are much cheaper and just as fast.
Comments about the PSU are pure BS. It will work fine for most things, the only time you need to upgrade it is if you use a really power-hungry graphics card, or 2 or more. Most people these days go for uber-overkill with their power supplies. I see Cataclysm pointed this out already. Ignore the "you need a 123000 Jiggawatt PSU" comments.

Get Windows 7 or 8, whichever is the cheapest, then upgrade to 10 for free.

And for gods sake build it yourself.

 

[Foxhound5366]

Of course they do, you think school kids get their components for a lot cheaper? They have to pay the same price as everyone else.

Clearly I grew up in a different family to you then TJ99. In my family, I was given a R2 note once a week for pocket money. Computers weren't even on my radar, I used my pocket money on sweets.

I'm going to be raising my children the same way - no way in hell they'll be getting PC components for thousands of rand a pop to play lego with.

 

[TJ99]

Clearly I grew up in a different family to you then TJ99. In my family, I was given a R2 note once a week for pocket money. Computers weren't even on my radar, I used my pocket money on sweets.

I'm going to be raising my children the same way - no way in hell they'll be getting PC components for thousands of rand a pop to play lego with.

Oh here we go, you probably walked 17 miles barefoot in the snow to school too, after milking the cows in the morning at 03:00 and then you had to churn butter and eat shoes for dinner when you came back

It's got nothing to do with what family you grew up in or whatever. Assembling a PC is a piece of cake. Even back in my day when I was the school kid saving my R2's for computer parts it was pretty easy. Nowadays it's pretty much impossible to damage anything unless you're actively trying to.

Edit: Seriously, you can do much better for the money, especially since you're not including a graphics card, the most expensive component.

 

[CataclysmZA]

Get a Haswell CPU instead, they are much cheaper and just as fast.
Comments about the PSU are pure BS. It will work fine for most things, the only time you need to upgrade it is if you use a really power-hungry graphics card, or 2 or more. Most people these days go for uber-overkill with their power supplies. I see Cataclysm pointed this out already. Ignore the "you need a 123000 Jiggawatt PSU" comments.

At this point, actually, the only benefits you get out of a Haswell build are slightly cheaper motherboards and slightly cheaper RAM. Skylake isn't that much more expensive considering how new the platform still is. Buying a Haswell chip from PotterH, though, is still a damn good deal.

There's also occasions where I do agree with overspeccing your PSU. If you have a nominal 350W load most of the time, getting a Gold or Platinum-rated PSU helps you save on some power and heat output, while also keeping things quieter because the fan doesn't have to run at full speed. But that's optional, and most buyers will prioritise price over quality or component selection.

 

[TJ99]

There's also occasions where I do agree with overspeccing your PSU. If you have a nominal 350W load most of the time, getting a Gold or Platinum-rated PSU helps you save on some power and heat output, while also keeping things quieter because the fan doesn't have to run at full speed. But that's optional, and most buyers will prioritise price over quality or component selection.

I do agree with it sometimes too, I have done it myself. This is not one of those times as he is on a tight budget. A tight budget that should also not be wasted on expensive motherboards and DDR4 RAM.

 

[CataclysmZA]

A tight budget that should also not be wasted on expensive motherboards and DDR4 RAM.

And here I would have to disagree. DDR3 is old hat, and needed to be retired a long time ago. Skylake is a brand new platform that does away with most of the issues stemmming from DMI 2.0 in the older chipsets, and supports Windows 10 fully, along with more technical stuff like Speed Shift. Hopping on to LGA1150 instead is a personal choice at this point because you want to save a tiny bit of money, and there's no upgrade path. Skylake at least has a second generation of CPUs waiting in the wings in late 2016 (not that the 6600K will need to be replaced any time soon).

Additionally, there's USB 3.1 Type C support, NVME support, and RAID over PCI-E, all of which are things that make it a better choice for future upgrades. Z97 only supports NVME drives, and needs an add-in card for USB 3.1 Type C ports.

 

[Progenix Oj101]

And here I would have to disagree. DDR3 is old hat, and needed to be retired a long time ago. Skylake is a brand new platform that does away with most of the issues stemmming from DMI 2.0 in the older chipsets, and supports Windows 10 fully, along with more technical stuff like Speed Shift. Hopping on to LGA1150 instead is a personal choice at this point because you want to save a tiny bit of money, and there's no upgrade path. Skylake at least has a second generation of CPUs waiting in the wings in late 2016 (not that the 6600K will need to be replaced any time soon).

Additionally, there's USB 3.1 Type C support, NVME support, and RAID over PCI-E, all of which are things that make it a better choice for future upgrades. Z97 only supports NVME drives, and needs an add-in card for USB 3.1 Type C ports.

But at the same time if you go Haswell you can pick up a high end i5, midrange board and 8 GB RAM for as little as R 3,000. R 1,500 for a CPU, R 800 for a B or H series motherboard and R 700 for RAM.

 

[Foxhound5366]

Oh here we go, you probably walked 17 miles barefoot in the snow to school too, after milking the cows in the morning at 03:00 and then you had to churn butter and eat shoes for dinner when you came back

It's got nothing to do with what family you grew up in or whatever. Assembling a PC is a piece of cake. Even back in my day when I was the school kid saving my R2's for computer parts it was pretty easy. Nowadays it's pretty much impossible to damage anything unless you're actively trying to.

Edit: Seriously, you can do much better for the money, especially since you're not including a graphics card, the most expensive component.

TJ99, after I've called bull**** on your little 'schoolkids are doing it' routine, you can stop trying to act like a smug knowitall and more like an actual human being. You almost got it right towards the end, so keep it up in that direction mkay?

 

[TJ99]

And here I would have to disagree. DDR3 is old hat, and needed to be retired a long time ago. Skylake is a brand new platform that does away with most of the issues stemmming from DMI 2.0 in the older chipsets, and supports Windows 10 fully, along with more technical stuff like Speed Shift. Hopping on to LGA1150 instead is a personal choice at this point because you want to save a tiny bit of money, and there's no upgrade path. Skylake at least has a second generation of CPUs waiting in the wings in late 2016 (not that the 6600K will need to be replaced any time soon).

Additionally, there's USB 3.1 Type C support, NVME support, and RAID over PCI-E, all of which are things that make it a better choice for future upgrades. Z97 only supports NVME drives, and needs an add-in card for USB 3.1 Type C ports.

By the time it's time to upgrade it would already be another few generations on, as you know. When's the last time you actually upgraded a CPU and kept the motherboard? To be honest if you got a relatively high-end Sandy Bridge i5 or i7 when they came out there is still no rush to upgrade it even now. And if you bought the most expensivest board and RAM back then, you'd still have to chuck it away when you upgrade.

That said, I'm suddenly not in a helping mood anymore.

TJ99, after I've called bull**** on your little 'schoolkids are doing it' routine, you can stop trying to act like a smug knowitall and more like an actual human being. You almost got it right towards the end, so keep it up in that direction mkay?

If this is how you act when people try to help, feel free to go ahead and blow it our your ass. I can see why ponder stopped wasting his time.

 

[AthenianOwl]

So I've been playing around on Evetech's configurator tool, looking for the best PC (including monitor) on a budget of only R12 000.

I realise that's a tight ask, so I had to compromise: I'm settling for the new generation Intel processor and motherboard chipset, and adding in an SSD for another decent boost. Any hope of basic gaming will have to wait until I can save up for a decent graphics card.

Do you agree that this configuration is as good as I'll be able to do?

PC Case: Standard Black Case - Included
Power Supply: Antec 400W 80+ High Performance Power Supply [ + R499.00 ]
Processor: Intel Core i5-6500 (3.2GHz, 6M Cache, 4x Cores, 3.6GHz Turbo) - Included
Heatsink & CPU Fan: Standard Heatsink & CPU Fan - Included
Motherboard: MSI H110M PRO VD LGA 1151 DDR4 USB 3.1 MB - Included
Memory: 8GB DDR4 2133Mhz High Performance RAM [ + R399.00 ]
Graphics Card: Integrated GPU Share Up to 1GB Graphics - Included
Sound Card: Integrated 7.1 Channel HD Audio - Included
Primary Hard Drive: 128GB SSD Upto 500MB/s+ Speed Solid State Drive [ + R99.00 ]
Secondary Hard Drive: 1TB WD Blue 7200RPM 64MB Cache HDD [ + R699.00 ]
Main Optical Drive: 24x Dual Layer DVD +/- Writer - Included
Network Adapter: PCI 802.11g 54mbps Wireless Network Card [ + R249.00 ]
LCD Monitor: LG 23" Slim 1920x1080 Full HD IPS LED [ + R2,299.00 ]
Operating System: Windows 10 Home 64bit [ + R1,699.00 ]
Warranty: 2 Years Return To Base (1st yr. Parts & Labour, 2nd yr. Labour only) - Included
Discounted Configured Price: R 12,042.00

Ouch. I think you got ripped off.

 

[Foxhound5366]

If this is how you act when people try to help, feel free to go ahead and blow it our your ass. I can see why ponder stopped wasting his time.

If your idea of trying to help is starting off by telling people that even school kids can do it, you can blow it out of yours ... remember that's how you started, so don't act all injured if I don't take kindly to that level of arrogance.

I agree with your point about CPU and motherboards ... technology is evolving rapidly, and at the same time developers need to ensure that their software is usable on the majority of gaming PCs out there, not only those upper-end rigs with the most hardcore gamers. That means that anything you have built to at least be competitive now should stay serviceable for five years, by which time you'll be dying for a total refresh anyway.

And AthenianOwl, don't worry, I haven't purchased that rig. It was just my first crack at seeing what the best system in my pricerange would be.

 

[ponder]

Foxhound5366, you come across as some hyper sensitive whiner. Building a PC is not hard as many a school kid have done it, some even do it for their friends (and no they probably don't have the money but their parents or older sibling probably funds it like I did for my brother). If you can plug a usb cable into a port you can build a PC, all the major components will only fit in one way unless you use a sledge hammer and force it. The MB comes with a manual which does not require a phd in electrical engineering to follow.

This is probably the first time I've seen someone here respond in this manner when asking for advice & input, c'est la vie. All the best & I hope you end up with what you are looking for.

 

[Foxhound5366]

Exactly Ponder, I asked for advice and input, not snide judgement. TJ99 and anybody else who prefers to offer dismissive criticism as an answer to a simple technical question deserve all the reactions like this they get. Sorry if you disagree.