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Ivy's extra mile
- Thread starter rpm
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friedpiggy
Expert Member
indeed she did give an excellent speech. but then again she is getting good at giving speeches. it is the lack of action that is the problem. i mean any idiot can give a good speech if enough people get together and write it for them, but unfortunately for us it seems that that is all we ever do. give really good speeches. oh and dont forget the donuts.
stoke
Honorary Master
LLU will be managey by a COMPLETELY INDEPENDANT committee so that the "correct" companies can get the tenders for the work involved. I can just see the dollah signs springing up in the friends of ivy's eyes.
IS + SNO are all happy that LLU will be limited to certain providers. BWAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAH. Like IS is going to get any of that. Morons. They should speak up now and say that LLU must be done properly now in one clean and clear cut step without the election of "favorites", and that is must be open to all ! All this is doing is swapping one owner of the Local Loop for another. FREE THE CABLES and the right to lay Cables !
Sentech's funded by government growth ... cool ... quick ... somebody invent an IBurst VOIP phone. Oh look mom .. unlimited budget .. no worries if it all goes wrong .. nobody is accountable .. lets SPEND !
Sentech = the new telkom.
Sentech are also MNET [NasPers's] competition, and look at how well they've competed ... bleugh.
IVY wants to force "cost price" international cable access. YEA ! YOU GO GIRL !
This also means that IVY will have to force "cost price" access to local cabling to access the international cabling otherwise step 1 would be moot cos whoever provices the local connection will also want to rip you off. But ... did anybody in that IVY tower think of that ? Oh look at the rising cost of teklom line-rental. Ooooh ...
Bleugh.
IS + SNO are all happy that LLU will be limited to certain providers. BWAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAH. Like IS is going to get any of that. Morons. They should speak up now and say that LLU must be done properly now in one clean and clear cut step without the election of "favorites", and that is must be open to all ! All this is doing is swapping one owner of the Local Loop for another. FREE THE CABLES and the right to lay Cables !
Sentech's funded by government growth ... cool ... quick ... somebody invent an IBurst VOIP phone. Oh look mom .. unlimited budget .. no worries if it all goes wrong .. nobody is accountable .. lets SPEND !
So ... let me put this into english for myself : A quick look around at some published world wide articles - excluding countries like Nigeria - has led them to believe that where there is too much infrastructure, and therefore waste, it is because governmint spent the taxpayers money on unneccesary infrastructure. So we'll interven and waste a couple of billion as well. Being efficient and cost effective is not really an excercise we want to tackle.
Sentech = the new telkom.
Sentech are also MNET [NasPers's] competition, and look at how well they've competed ... bleugh.
IVY wants to force "cost price" international cable access. YEA ! YOU GO GIRL !
This also means that IVY will have to force "cost price" access to local cabling to access the international cabling otherwise step 1 would be moot cos whoever provices the local connection will also want to rip you off. But ... did anybody in that IVY tower think of that ? Oh look at the rising cost of teklom line-rental. Ooooh ...
Bleugh.
Keithk
Well-Known Member
IVY's Speech
Ivy we all know that talk is cheap, the big question is when this is going to happen....We need it to be done yesterday...
Ivy we all know that talk is cheap, the big question is when this is going to happen....We need it to be done yesterday...
The_Unbeliever
Honorary Master
...and have them undercut prices, or bail them out with taxpayer's money should it fizzle out again...
I have a funny feeling about this... why am I thinking extortion? Maybe I'm wrong, but...
AdLo
Expert Member
I flipped through the channels around 11 at night yesterday to be suprised to see Ivy with her gray pyramid shaped hair being interviewed on SABC 2 news Dikgang. I didn't understand a word because the interview was in an indigenous language but suprizingly Ivy talked alot and every sentence she spoke contained the work e-broadband.
Not joking but she must have mentioned e-broadband 50 times. Seems like she is evolving from sleeping into just talking. In another 6 years she might start acting but by that time she will more likely be dead from old age.
Not joking but she must have mentioned e-broadband 50 times. Seems like she is evolving from sleeping into just talking. In another 6 years she might start acting but by that time she will more likely be dead from old age.
Lord Anubis
Expert Member
Telskommelpedia
1. Definition of Committee Syndrome
Meaning: If all logic fails create a committee to investigate the problem being investigated by the other committees who are investigating the problem of the other committee.
diagnosis/prognosis = no improvement/profit!
1. Definition of Committee Syndrome
Meaning: If all logic fails create a committee to investigate the problem being investigated by the other committees who are investigating the problem of the other committee.
diagnosis/prognosis = no improvement/profit!
LifelongGamer
Well-Known Member
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Concerned
@ Duncan, well written, informative piece of journalism.
I do, however, got a funny feeling while reading it. For example:
In addition, just recently the ICASA Amendment Bill was accepted by the National Assembly. 5 opposition parties (all in the minority, I might add) voted against it as it could still be used to give the MoC more powers over ICASA's independance, yet this article quotes them as being in favour of the MoC's views. Contradition?
I believe that one should give credit where credit is due. I also believe that action speaks much louder than words. All we consumers have received for years is 'very pretty words' from all concerned (politicians -> operators), especially in periods of heightened discontent - but we're no better off now than we were 3 years ago. The 'praise' that the MoC has supposedly received is IMO premature. Let's first see the results of her ministerial determinations and policy-direction in action before we shout "Hooray, the napping is over! Finally we're getting somewhere!"
@ Duncan, well written, informative piece of journalism.
I do, however, got a funny feeling while reading it. For example:
Since when did EASSy become a NEPAD-led project? Following all the correspondance presented on MYADSL, they've only 'recently' become involved and there's speculation that NEPAD has 'highjacked' this project. I'm not complaining - their involvement should prevent another SAT-3 profiteering disaster for the consumer, but it does appear to me the we're just receiving more PR / spin while nothing constructive is intended to result for several more years. To me the theme of the article seemed sugar-coated. I'm not sure if that was the intent, but that's my interpretation.
In addition, just recently the ICASA Amendment Bill was accepted by the National Assembly. 5 opposition parties (all in the minority, I might add) voted against it as it could still be used to give the MoC more powers over ICASA's independance, yet this article quotes them as being in favour of the MoC's views. Contradition?
I believe that one should give credit where credit is due. I also believe that action speaks much louder than words. All we consumers have received for years is 'very pretty words' from all concerned (politicians -> operators), especially in periods of heightened discontent - but we're no better off now than we were 3 years ago. The 'praise' that the MoC has supposedly received is IMO premature. Let's first see the results of her ministerial determinations and policy-direction in action before we shout "Hooray, the napping is over! Finally we're getting somewhere!"
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mcleodd
Well-Known Member
LifelongGamer said:
Thanks.
The politicians have become increasingly involved in Eassy in the past six months. It's worrying. My instinct is that this is not a good development. I hope my instinct is wrong but where government gets involved in this sector it usually results in a screw-up.
The last thing we want/need is price controls over any of these cables. The moment government or the regulator begin setting the prices that operators will charge for access to these systems is the moment we are in serious trouble. Competition works. Price controls don't. Government, get out!
No, it's not a contradiction. The minister's speech was largely unrelated to the issues around the Icasa Amendment Bill.
Absolutely! This minister has failed abysmally in almost everything she has done. But her speech is largely on target (the Sentech stuff excluded). Let's now see her turn talk into action. I'm also hugely sceptical about the speed of progress going forward.
I hope I've replied this post correctly (been manually typing in the coding as I went).
in other words her Ivy'ness said the samething, but just with more words and added (erm) brain? 
HA! proof is in the action taken, which i would love to see but doubt will ever happen!
Lots of talk and no action, sounds like a fun job eh?
HA! proof is in the action taken, which i would love to see but doubt will ever happen!
Lots of talk and no action, sounds like a fun job eh?
bb_matt
Executive Member
Hmmm, I would be worried whether ICASA can handle LLU in its current capacity - seems like the whole idea is open to serious mismanagement and price fixing.
Unfortunately, the SA market for broadband is so tiny, it makes competition very difficult indeed. In other words, there isn't much profit to go around - the big players will eat up the lions share in no time, the scraps left over will be thin pickings for serious competition to take place.
There's probably a potential customer base of around 6 million people given the current social/economic climate in SA, which isn't a very significant market when compared with international trends. The US/Europe is probably 15 to 20 times that, Asia about 40 times - there's room for a number of players which drives competition, lowering cost.
Lets be realistic here, with 70% of populations families earning R1500pm or below, broadband isn't exactly going to be a priority, unless it's in the region of R100 a month - even if it was that price, the current infrastructure simply could not handle it. The amount of money it would take to build an infrastructure capable of handling it wouldn't be economically feasible.
Chicken and Egg.
Add to that the fact that access to computers in SA is really low - in order of 10 people to 1 pc - and you start to see a picture where broadband growth can't suddenly accelerate, it has to go slowly, as it has no alternative.
Unfortunately, the SA market for broadband is so tiny, it makes competition very difficult indeed. In other words, there isn't much profit to go around - the big players will eat up the lions share in no time, the scraps left over will be thin pickings for serious competition to take place.
There's probably a potential customer base of around 6 million people given the current social/economic climate in SA, which isn't a very significant market when compared with international trends. The US/Europe is probably 15 to 20 times that, Asia about 40 times - there's room for a number of players which drives competition, lowering cost.
Lets be realistic here, with 70% of populations families earning R1500pm or below, broadband isn't exactly going to be a priority, unless it's in the region of R100 a month - even if it was that price, the current infrastructure simply could not handle it. The amount of money it would take to build an infrastructure capable of handling it wouldn't be economically feasible.
Chicken and Egg.
Add to that the fact that access to computers in SA is really low - in order of 10 people to 1 pc - and you start to see a picture where broadband growth can't suddenly accelerate, it has to go slowly, as it has no alternative.
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bb matt - all that may be true but we shouldn't have to pay these abusive prices month after month with no hope on the horizon except more talk, more of the same. Kick telkoms butt - lower the prices - end of story. But no - of course that can't happen - telkom is a listed company with an army of lawyers - and a regulator who is powerless in all ways, and it suits them that way. All talk and no action while everyone gets poorer. It sucks. And it all comes down to that abusive monopoly at the top - more non-caring, rampant profiteering and abuse.
I disagree, the South African market for broadband is comparatively huge (in the order of millions in the 'first economy' alone); there are many countries with both smaller populations (again, even only looking at our 'first economy') and smaller GDP that have much cheaper broadband and more competition. South Africa is not small in any sense - not population-wise nor economy-wise - we have the 28th largest GDP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal).bb_matt said:
Although we traditionally think of telecomms companies as being "supposed to be" huge entities that reap in billions of profits, there is no reason why they should be, they don't "deserve" billions of profits and there is no reason why the market shouldn't be fiercely competitive with several smaller companies making far less money with much lower margins. That's how things *should* be. In fact it *should* be so competitive that some companies *go under* - if there aren't companies losing money, the market isn't free/competitive enough. Telecomms isn't some black magic that only a few are capable of providing and are somehow entitled to disproportionate compensation for it.
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I Disagree! They need the PC's and Internet access at home then the defacto huge library of information to get them a kick start will be available 24/7. Will also give them something to do and stimulate the market! Why at school the access will be limited again to a few and the access will be to structured! Its fine but the former should be aimed for!ic said:
DragonLogos
Expert Member
Talking of Schools (and fools) is this not the same Ivy that promised (nearly two years ago) a 50% discount for schools - Which BTW they have not yet got, perhaps they have (like others) forgotten