Jihadi John 'dead'

Cray said:
Was thinking more of Karmic justice, true he didn't get a trial but he was a legitimate military target in a war zone...shrug.
Click to expand...
And they probably didn't go out there to kill him, he just happened to be in the firing line cuz he was a murdering scumbag.
 
AfricanTech said:
There is due process - permission is needed within the military hierarchy - if I remember correctly, if Congress feels that it was not a legitimate kill, then people can be held to account.
Click to expand...

That's part of the problem, it's incredibly secretive (beyond operational requirements, I mean) and it's very difficult to find out what process they actually follow to determine who is going to be targeted, for what reason, and based on what evidence, for example.

There's also very large problems with how civilian deaths are handled - they're also often posthumously vaguely classified as enemies, for example.

Some reading:

https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/the-assassination-complex/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposition_Matrix
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...uit-over-obama-administration-drone-kill-list
 
Unfortunately they are dealing with a hydra. Kill one and some other sick puppy pops up and takes his place.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
That's part of the problem, it's incredibly secretive (beyond operational requirements, I mean) and it's very difficult to find out what process they actually follow to determine who is going to be targeted, for what reason, and based on what evidence, for example.

There's also very large problems with how civilian deaths are handled - they're also often posthumously vaguely classified as enemies, for example.

Some reading:

https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/the-assassination-complex/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposition_Matrix
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...uit-over-obama-administration-drone-kill-list
Click to expand...

That is a real problem.

However in this case I fully agree that this idiot had to simply be put down, for all the evil he committed as well as all the people he mislead into following him.
Good riddance to bad rubish.
The threat of ISIS is still far from resolved however.
 
yebocan said:
technically US is not at war...do not even think it has boots on the ground when it comes to ISIS in Syria...so who decides who will be "droned", are there even rules of engagement when it comes to drones?
Click to expand...

war on terror?

how would US enforce due process on foreign soil? i mean, there's really no functioning government in that area to really rely on to take the guy to court? did you cry foul when bin laden was executed?

i have no problem with Jihad John being executed the way he did. he showed no concern for his victims and even egged on the western societies. i am not sure how you can support this piece of trash.

something tells me that i should keep a closer eye on you.
 
crackersa said:
war on terror?

how would US enforce due process on foreign soil? i mean, there's really no functioning government in that area to really rely on to take the guy to court? did you cry foul when bin laden was executed?

i have no problem with Jihad John being executed the way he did. he showed no concern for his victims and even egged on the western societies. i am not sure how you can support this piece of trash.

something tells me that i should keep a closer eye on you.
Click to expand...

What a bizarre post. Where on earth did he support him?

Being cautious of murky, possibly illegal, unaccountable government programmes isn't even close to supporting terrorists.

What would your reaction be if the tables were turned and a foreign government ordered killings of Americans (in the USA) based on some perceived threat, and it was done in the same shrouded, unaccountable fashion?
 
crackersa said:
war on terror?

how would US enforce due process on foreign soil? i mean, there's really no functioning government in that area to really rely on to take the guy to court? did you cry foul when bin laden was executed?

i have no problem with Jihad John being executed the way he did. he showed no concern for his victims and even egged on the western societies. i am not sure how you can support this piece of trash.

something tells me that i should keep a closer eye on you.
Click to expand...

How does questioning aspects of the drone programme amount to support of Jihad John and ilk? I have issue when there is vague/no clear oversight of any programme.

Closer eye...:wtf: ok, right....this place gets stranger by the day.
 
US and UK are finding these guys by hacking supposedly secure message services. The dont need the content. Only the metadata to track them down. It seems they also seem to know who has what device.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
What a bizarre post. Where on earth did he support him?

Being cautious of murky, possibly illegal, unaccountable government programmes isn't even close to supporting terrorists.

What would your reaction be if the tables were turned and a foreign government ordered killings of Americans (in the USA) based on some perceived threat, and it was done in the same shrouded, unaccountable fashion?
Click to expand...

conspiracy theories don't work here.

everyone expects the US to be some holier than thou and follow these "rules" but yet, no one expects the "other guy" to follow the same rules.
 
yebocan said:
How does questioning aspects of the drone programme amount to support of Jihad John and ilk? I have issue when there is vague/no clear oversight of any programme.

Closer eye...:wtf: ok, right....this place gets stranger by the day.
Click to expand...

Whats the difference between a drone strike on these guys and a conventional bombing run to target the enemy's command and control, etc. ?
 
crackersa said:
war on terror?

how would US enforce due process on foreign soil? i mean, there's really no functioning government in that area to really rely on to take the guy to court? did you cry foul when bin laden was executed?

i have no problem with Jihad John being executed the way he did. he showed no concern for his victims and even egged on the western societies. i am not sure how you can support this piece of trash.

something tells me that i should keep a closer eye on you.
Click to expand...

Daft post, no one disagrees that Jihad John got what he deserved. What we are questioning is all the other times when innocent people get bombed by predator drones. Read the piece again, 99% sure they got, does that mean there is a 1% chance that got the wrong man? What about all the time the drones have got the wrong person, have their been any prosecutions or even censures as a result?


As for the war on terror, that's not a real declared war against a country, it just seems to be a convenient exxcuse for the US to run roughshod over the sovereignty of other countries.
 
crackersa said:
conspiracy theories don't work here.

everyone expects the US to be some holier than thou and follow these "rules" but yet, no one expects the "other guy" to follow the same rules.
Click to expand...

So you say that US should be able to act the same way terrorists do? Fine, just drop all pretence of being better than them...
 
Cray said:
So you say that US should be able to act the same way terrorists do? Fine, just drop all pretence of being better than them...
Click to expand...

there's a saying that us rednecks like to use....

if you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch.
 
Cray said:
Daft post, no one disagrees that Jihad John got what he deserved. What we are questioning is all the other times when innocent people get bombed by predator drones. Read the piece again, 99% sure they got, does that mean there is a 1% chance that got the wrong man? What about all the time the drones have got the wrong person, have their been any prosecutions or even censures as a result?


As for the war on terror, that's not a real declared war against a country, it just seems to be a convenient exxcuse for the US to run roughshod over the sovereignty of other countries.
Click to expand...

no, that's not what it started off as, yebocan asked where the due process is.
 
crackersa said:
conspiracy theories don't work here.

everyone expects the US to be some holier than thou and follow these "rules" but yet, no one expects the "other guy" to follow the same rules.
Click to expand...

It's not a conspiracy theory, it's a hypothetical - and a valid one that shows the ridiculousness of the US policy on this.

What 'other guy' are you talking about? Terrorists? Are you really shocked that I hold the US to a higher standard than terrorists? :erm:
 
OrbitalDawn said:
It's not a conspiracy theory, it's a hypothetical - and a valid one that shows the ridiculousness of the US policy on this.

What 'other guy' are you talking about? Terrorists? Are you really shocked that I hold the US to a higher standard than terrorists? :erm:
Click to expand...

ok, i'll bite the bait about your "hypothetical question". would it bother me? most likely, is it not happening already?

do isis considered themselves a govt? yeah, one could say that.

are they openly calling for people to attack western cilvians? yes, we seen that regularly.

is it done in a secret shrouded unaccountable fashion? well, i think that answers itself based on my previous two answers.
 
crackersa said:
ok, i'll bite the bait about your "hypothetical question". would it bother me? most likely, is it not happening already?

do isis considered themselves a govt? yeah, one could say that.

are they openly calling for people to attack western cilvians? yes, we seen that regularly.

is it done in a secret shrouded unaccountable fashion? well, i think that answers itself based on my previous two answers.
Click to expand...

No, it isn't.

If you want to be consistent you'd have to support foreign governments killing US citizens (in the US) who have called for violence against civilians elsewhere - of which there are plenty examples.

And again, holding the US to ISIS' standard? Geeze, dude... :erm:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X