Jnr Software Developer

[Horsekit]

So, I just started learning how to programme. Can you guys give me some advice on what I need to land that first junior software developer job?

-What programming languages do I need to know?

-What level of proficiency is required for a junior position?

-What other skills and abilities will I need to land the job?

I'm not planning to start applying tomorrow. I just wish to know what my goals should be and how I should go about to achieve them to land the job.

Thanks!

 

[aigle2am]

First things first. Are you studying towards a degree or diploma at present? If not, I suggest you start with that first, even if it is part time.

 

[Solitude]

So, I just started learning how to programme. Can you guys give me some advice on what I need to land that first junior software developer job?

-What programming languages do I need to know?

-What level of proficiency is required for a junior position?

-What other skills and abilities will I need to land the job?

I'm not planning to start applying tomorrow. I just wish to know what my goals should be and how I should go about to achieve them to land the job.

Thanks!

Learn to program. Not learn to programme.

Like aigle2am said, you have to study something before you have a realistic chance of finding a job.

Languages wise you can't go wrong with C# or Java.

For a junior position, if you studied something then that's all you need proficiency wise. However, the more you know the better.

 

[gkm]

Note, I have not done this myself, so cannot vouch for value, but something like this might enable you to get your foot into the door:
http://brochure.unisa.ac.za/slp/showprev.aspx?d=l_4_730_90&f=p_76804

Long term, a more complete qualification is obviously a good idea, but that might take some years. Getting some actual relevant work experience while studying is a valuable.

 

[Batista]

Note, I have not done this myself, so cannot vouch for value, but something like this might enable you to get your foot into the door:
http://brochure.unisa.ac.za/slp/showprev.aspx?d=l_4_730_90&f=p_76804

Long term, a more complete qualification is obviously a good idea, but that might take some years. Getting some actual relevant work experience while studying is a valuable.

Getting some actual relevant work experience while studying is a valuable
THis is essential, dont think you can just qualify and walk into a job!

 

[MisterFiftySomething]

So, I just started learning how to programme. Can you guys give me some advice on what I need to land that first junior software developer job?

-What programming languages do I need to know?

-What level of proficiency is required for a junior position?

-What other skills and abilities will I need to land the job?

I'm not planning to start applying tomorrow. I just wish to know what my goals should be and how I should go about to achieve them to land the job.

Thanks!

If you have no formal qualification, you could look around for a "Learner Programmer" position somewhere. They are pretty scarce and the companies that offer them may call it something else. What it is, is a position where you start out below junior programmer but you receive in-house training as well formal courses with the company picking up the bill. Usually you sign a contract with the company stating that you won't resign for a predetermined period of time if they pay for your studies. The company I work for used to do this. Qualifying was pretty tough, though.

Best thing would be (like the other posters said) to get some form of formal qualification first.

 

[kripstoe]

So, I just started learning how to programme. Can you guys give me some advice on what I need to land that first junior software developer job?

-What programming languages do I need to know?

-What level of proficiency is required for a junior position?

-What other skills and abilities will I need to land the job?

I'm not planning to start applying tomorrow. I just wish to know what my goals should be and how I should go about to achieve them to land the job.

Thanks!

Be careful about asking about a "job". Will it be a "job" or your "career"?

- Programming languages: Starting out, it depends what type of work you want to do. Mobile apps? Java, C#, Objective-C, etc. As mentioned, you cannot really go wrong with C# or Java. Try some and see what feels right for you. You can always learn more later.

- Proficiency : This really depends on the work, but if you have written a website you can show off, a working mobile application for any of the phone makes, you can demonstrate that you know how to develop something, it's a good start. Next point is more important to me...

- Other skills: Passion. Willingness to learn. Ability to demonstrate logical thinking. Being inquisitive when presented with a problem - ask questions about the problem. When I interview someone, I enjoy it when someone is confident when they speak about the things they know, and open/honest about the things they do not know. There are many other skills, but it depends where you see yourself later in your career.

We interviewed and hired someone at the beginning of this year that just started out but showed the above characteristics. Interviewed someone earlier this week that has a degree and been working for a couple of years, but didn't show much passion or willingness to learn.

Good luck.

 

[Hamster]

Be careful about asking about a "job". Will it be a "job" or your "career"?

For the first two years it doesn't matter. You are going to be given **** jobs for **** pay. All that matters in those first two years is gaining two years of relevant experience so that you can go start your career after that.

To give yourself the best start: C# or Java. The other languages can be picked up later.

And it goes without saying, the ones who work hardest from the get go end up with the better careers/job/pay...almost most of the time.

 

[zippy]

Whatever language you choose to learn, also add SQL. Storage, processing and retrieval of data is the main point of most well paying jobs. Of course there are other jobs which don't require SQL, but they are a bit more scarce and tend to be harder to get into for a first timer.

It's far easier to get a job as a developer if you also have knowledge of databases. Which database will depend on the language. If choose c#, then focus MSSQL. DBMS systems most widely used are Microsoft's SQL Server, Oracle, MySQL . There are of course others.

Java is best with MySQL and Oracle. But only because most companies pair Java with these DBMS systems.

MySQL used to be a popular choice to learn SQL. You download drivers for just about every language. But if you are learning C#, you may as well go straight for MS SQL Server.

If want to focus on mobile languages, then something like SQLite is useful.

 

[senyetse]

I'd recommend getting a formal degree/national diploma from a recognised university along with a certification in Java/C#. The degree will give you a very good theoretical foundation, while the certification will show that you are competent in the technology. The degree is not an absolute requirement (although some companies do require a degree) but it will be beneficial in building a career.

 

[cguy]

A degree (preferably a BSc ComSci) gives you the best chance of success (all other things being equal), but isn't strictly necessary to do well.

I'll second C# as an elegant way to get acquainted with programming. I think that a lot of your questions are premature - first do a bit of programming before you decide what you want to do with it, and what constitutes an "employable" level of skill.

 

[Horsekit]

Thanks guys for taking the time to respond to my questions. I appreciate your input.

I am currently working my way through Learn Python The Hard Way. And the reason I'm learning Python is because, the founder of Google in his essay, Learn programming in 10 years, recommended it, and the guys at reddit recommend it as the "best" language to start with.

Would you say I'm on the right track?

The reason I'm looking for a junior software development job is because I learn best through experiencing it first hand and thereby seeing if it is a fit for me.

It is unfortunate that I have to study towards a degree to find employment. In another thread, I mentioned I'm completing a BCom degree, but I am uncertain whether I want to go in that direction.

I have heard of guys who entered the IT field with just a matric (and other IT skills of course), but this must just be true for IT in general and not software development, right?

Anyways, thanks for assisting me in this matter and reading through my ramblings...

 

[Hamster]

From the top of my head we have two VERY good developers working for us with no formal training. They are the exception to the norm though.

 

[cguy]

Thanks guys for taking the time to respond to my questions. I appreciate your input.

I am currently working my way through Learn Python The Hard Way. And the reason I'm learning Python is because, the founder of Google in his essay, Learn programming in 10 years, recommended it, and the guys at reddit recommend it as the "best" language to start with.

Would you say I'm on the right track?

Sure, Python is also a good language to start with. Since I currently work in a Linux environment, my coding is mostly C/C++ and some Python (when performance doesn't matter). The big advantage to C# that I was thinking of (apart from the stricter typing), is that Microsoft has a great free IDE (Visual Studio Express version).

The reason I'm looking for a junior software development job is because I learn best through experiencing it first hand and thereby seeing if it is a fit for me.

I suggest some more self study first, and then trying to find an internship that allows you to do some programming to see if it is a fit for you.

It is unfortunate that I have to study towards a degree to find employment. In another thread, I mentioned I'm completing a BCom degree, but I am uncertain whether I want to go in that direction.

A degree is best way to maximize your chances of getting into the field, and more specifically doing well in it. Not having a degree in CS/IS doesn't preclude you, but it can make your goals a little more difficult to achieve. Having a B.Com., could actually help you though: a lot of employers that want or require a degree, aren't really that specific about what it's in, they just want to know that you have the discipline and focus to do one. If you apply for a dev position, they will hopefully then base their hire decision on how you do in the interview.

I have heard of guys who entered the IT field with just a matric (and other IT skills of course), but this must just be true for IT in general and not software development, right?

Sure, people with just matric (or even without it) get jobs as devs all the time, it's just: a) less likely, and b) the more desirable jobs (factoring in both pay and enjoyment) tend to go to those with better qualifications (i.e., factoring in both degrees and work history/experience).

The qualifications of my current group (size of 13) at work consists of almost exclusively PhD and Masters degree holders, but there is one guy with just a matric (and a good amount of experience). This guy is consistently rated as better than average within the group - he is extremely smart, and very competent.

Once again, though it's all about the odds - the higher the degree the better your chances, the lower and/or less relevant your qualifications, the worse your chances. Nothing zeroes your chances (well, short of death).

 

[senyetse]

It is unfortunate that I have to study towards a degree to find employment. In another thread, I mentioned I'm completing a BCom degree, but I am uncertain whether I want to go in that direction.

Have a look at UNISA's BSc Informatics - business/accounting with mostly information systems and some computer science. With a BCom you may already be halfway there. Maybe do a few of the computer science/information systems focused subjects of the degree either for non-degree purposes or you may even get credit for the business/accounting subjects you have passed. Have a word with them, maybe they can accommodate you.

 

[zippy]

Thanks guys for taking the time to respond to my questions. I appreciate your input.

I am currently working my way through Learn Python The Hard Way. And the reason I'm learning Python is because, the founder of Google in his essay, Learn programming in 10 years, recommended it, and the guys at reddit recommend it as the "best" language to start with.

Would you say I'm on the right track?

The reason I'm looking for a junior software development job is because I learn best through experiencing it first hand and thereby seeing if it is a fit for me.

It is unfortunate that I have to study towards a degree to find employment. In another thread, I mentioned I'm completing a BCom degree, but I am uncertain whether I want to go in that direction.

I have heard of guys who entered the IT field with just a matric (and other IT skills of course), but this must just be true for IT in general and not software development, right?

Anyways, thanks for assisting me in this matter and reading through my ramblings...

It is possible to get a job with just matric, but chances are that you end up with a real douche of an employer. The type that you read about in these forums. No training. No mentoring. It's a reason to exploit you because they know its hard for you to find another job.

 

[Swa]

I have heard of guys who entered the IT field with just a matric (and other IT skills of course), but this must just be true for IT in general and not software development, right?

Sure possible yes. A lot of people who start off like that though have their own entry into the market like a small business or work on the side so they have proven their competence. Freelancing and getting some recommendations even if it's just joe public with his website is therefor a good idea.

As for which languages to go for depends of the platform you will be working on. Yes Python could be a good place to start learning general programming concepts but so is Delphi. Web server development would call for Java or C#. Desktop software you really have to go the route of something like C++. A little assembly also never hurt anyone. Even if you don't use it you'll know what's under the hood of your program.

 

[semaphore]

Sure possible yes. A lot of people who start off like that though have their own entry into the market like a small business or work on the side so they have proven their competence. Freelancing and getting some recommendations even if it's just joe public with his website is therefor a good idea.

As for which languages to go for depends of the platform you will be working on. Yes Python could be a good place to start learning general programming concepts but so is Delphi. Web server development would call for Java or C#. Desktop software you really have to go the route of something like C++. A little assembly also never hurt anyone. Even if you don't use it you'll know what's under the hood of your program.

Your post is full of so much misinformation its unreal.

Firstly, its not web server development, its web development. Since when in the world do you have to go the route of c++ for desktop apps? You do know massive amounts of desktop applications are written in C#? And assembly is only needed for precise optimizations in very specific situations.

Web/Backends - Scala,Ruby,Python,C#,Java
Desktop - C#,C++,Java

To name a few.

 

[Hamster]

Web server development would call for Java or C#. Desktop software you really have to go the route of something like C++.

 

[Swa]

Your post is full of so much misinformation its unreal.

Firstly, its not web server development, its web development. Since when in the world do you have to go the route of c++ for desktop apps? You do know massive amounts of desktop applications are written in C#? And assembly is only needed for precise optimizations in very specific situations.

Web/Backends - Scala,Ruby,Python,C#,Java
Desktop - C#,C++,Java

To name a few.

Oh gosh. Take a look at who is really providing the misinformation. Show us how much of web development is off server. Javascript is not Java. Most people do not have Java installed client side. I had but almost never got any applets and when I did there were compatibility issues. Most client side programming nowadays is done in flash. So yes it is web server development rather than web development when talking about Java.

When is the last time you actually saw a Java desktop app? It seems even more scarce than .Net. Java is really not the way to go for desktop development. I've also never seen anyone claim a great app to be written in C#. Most state they are written in C++ or C and even Delphi is still a more popular choice than C#.

As for assembly stop twisting my words. I never claimed it any way to be a necessity.