Joule PT Panda unveiled; pricing guidelines given

[Gekco]

But seriously
An electric Car... Batteries not included...

 

[portcullis]

Gecko,

You beat me to it.

As far as I'm concerned, this thing's dead in the water.

These guys probably used to rent out photocopiers, PABXs or CCTV systems and want to use that "recoup the cost price every ten months" business model on car batteries.

I'd rather ride a donkey cart.

NO NO NO.

 

[Nefertiti]

I wonder what the range will be with the air-con on?

Driving range has and still is the achilles heel of electric cars.
Strange that the original specs referred to a range of 200km which has now increased to 300km. Did battery technology improve that much?

well... check out this article... its not in production yet, but it means that they are constantly making advances in these batteries... somewhere else it mentioned that a laptop battery running 2 hours would run for 20 on this stuff. i like!!

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091029160532.htm

 

[minity]

Gecko,

You beat me to it.

As far as I'm concerned, this thing's dead in the water.

These guys probably used to rent out photocopiers, PABXs or CCTV systems and want to use that "recoup the cost price every ten months" business model on car batteries.

I'd rather ride a donkey cart.

NO NO NO.

I think it won't be, just look at the Prius in america - It's a piece of crap and also heavy on fuel, but they still buy it as a status thing.
Just why can they not make electric cars look good? Surely it's not that hard...

 

[adamr]

i think at the price point for R235k and monthly opex of battery costs of R1500 ... i don't see the value proposition as a consumer

it still will be cheaper for most to buy a light diesel car like the Polo Bluemotion ... doubt youd be spending R1500 a month on fuel bills on that car ....heck even if i bought a luxury German saloon i dont think my fuel bill will be R1500 a month and if i bought a slightly used one id be paying R250k odd with luxury and cred...

its a lovely "idea" but the pricing needs to be relooked at

 

[dabbler]

Also is 300k before its dead ... cause then it'll prob die over like 25k and get slower and slower until you're traversing the highway at 25kmh to get home to charge ... electricity doesn't just somma die, it gets deminished .. like when a torch gets dimmer and dimmer as the battery dies

Anyone with a portable solar charger with enough capacity ?

 

[robgun]

It would be interesting to see what the terms of sale of the vehicle will be in that I would look for manufacturers of compatible batteries and tell Optimal energy to stick their overpriced batteries. I'm sure they would add a clause which would void the warranty or even be looked at as patent violations.

What happened to the days when projects were undertaken for the good of all mankind?

 

[Mlungu2]

So other than the environmental benefits, the driver will make almost no savings by switching over to an electric vehicle from a combustion engine in South Africa unless he travels more than 2120Km a month. Here are my calculations:

Volts x Amps = Watts therefore 220V X 3.0A (Standard rating) = 660Watts/hour. Multiply that by 7 hours and you get a total of 4.620KW/h per day to charge to max capacity (Approximately)

1KW/h of electricity is about 88.20 cents incl. vat

So 88.20c X 4.620KW/h = 407.484 cents / day to charge = +- R122.00/month

Then, battery rental = R1500.00 so total is now R1622.00 / 30 days

Petrol is currently R7.65/l and the average mileage per liter is about 10km

So to break even with an electric car, you would need to travel a minimum of 2120KM / month or 71Km / day any less mileage than that and you would end up paying more per km than with a combustion engine.

Am I right?

The optimal energy website says that the electricity to charge the batteries is included in the R1500. I assume that they want to avoid people trying to save money by not charging the batteries properly. Cant imagine how they want to implement that though.

 

[thirtysics]

Does anyone know how many CO2 will be emitted by the 7hour charge cycle? The Joule website says its only 20%. I think they are playing it down even though I still think they are doing good work.

Another unrelated point. My Polo 74Kw TDI emits 132gCO2/km. After 700km on the 45lt tank I would have made 92Kg of CO2. So 45lt makes 92Kg. Anyone know how this is possible? I know Diesel is lighter than water (water:1kg=1lt) but other than that I'm not smart enough to know whats missing.

 

[robgun]

Does anyone know how many CO2 will be emitted by the 7hour charge cycle? The Joule website says its only 20%. I think they are playing it down even though I still think they are doing good work.

Another unrelated point. My Polo 74Kw TDI emits 132gCO2/km. After 700km on the 45lt tank I would have made 92Kg of CO2. So 45lt makes 92Kg. Anyone know how this is possible? I know Diesel is lighter than water (water:1kg=1lt) but other than that I'm not smart enough to know whats missing.

Difficult to answer without more information on the size of the batteries. However with regard to your CO2 emmisions, look at the example below:

A litre of petrol, which weighs about 0.737 kgs. Most of the weight of the CO2 doesn't come from the petrol itself, but the oxygen in the air.

When petrol burns, the carbon and hydrogen separate. The hydrogen combines with oxygen to form water (H2O), and carbon combines with oxygen to form carbon dioxide (CO2).

CO2 molecule with one carbon atom (atomic weight 12) and two oxygen atoms (atomic weight of 16 each)A carbon atom has a weight of 12, and each oxygen atom has a weight of 16, giving each single molecule of CO2 an atomic weight of 44 (12 from carbon and 32 from oxygen).

Therefore, to calculate the amount of CO2 produced from a litre of petrol, the weight of the carbon in the petrol is multiplied by 44/12 or 3.7.

Since petrol is about 87% carbon and 13% hydrogen by weight, the carbon in a liter of petrol weighs 0.641 kg (0.737 kgs. x .87).

We can then multiply the weight of the carbon (0.641 kg) by 3.7, which equals 2.372 kgs of CO2!

So in conclusion your 45l tank will produce 2.372 x 45 which equals 106.75kg of CO2

To do the calculation with diesel, use the weight of 0.9kg / liter

 

[shogun]

I think it won't be, just look at the Prius in america - It's a piece of crap and also heavy on fuel, but they still buy it as a status thing.
Just why can they not make electric cars look good? Surely it's not that hard...

hmmm... I don't think the Joule has a bad design. The guy behind it designed for Jag I think.

What it has over the prius, is that when ur running on battery with the prius, ur carrying around a petrol engine worth of weight that's really not doing anything... just in case you run out of charge (which will happen sooner with all the extra weight).

I'm definitely going to get one when they release. Koeberg emits less carbon that my car burning petrol As for petrol stations... why not just stick some outlets on some street lights "in case of emergency"

On my earlier comment of 15 minutes charge time... there's a reason I put an "I stand to be corrected". I remembered they said something about 3 phase and ridiculously short charge times. 15 minutes comes to mind, but I could be off the mark and will check it out when I go look at the car in the showroom. The normal home outlets they mention about 7hrs is single phase I would imagine.

 

[portcullis]

What we have to ask ourselves is whether any of the other manufacturers or electric of hybrid cars rent out the batteries?

I stand corrected, but if you buy a Prius or a Hybrid Lexus, surely it comes with it's batteries and the same for the Tesla.

And then there's the claim that the energy use is included in the R1,500 a month rental. Are they going to pull an extra Eksdom / mislikepaliteit power circuit into my house just for the car? And what if I want to go to Hermanus for the weekend? How am I going to charge my car for the trip back? Are they going to have secure parking places where they cars can charge using "their" electricity?

 

[hj2k_x]

The Geewhiz. I know it is small and ridiculous but why don't we have them here?

 

[murraybiscuit]

please read the faq's section on the optimal energy site first. most people have asked a range of these questions there already.

optimal energy cars are full electric vehicles, not prius-style hybrids. that's where the similarity ends. batteries are much bigger, more expensive, require external charging. i'm guessing you're looking at way over 300k for the car if you added a single battery, which would make the sale even harder.

the problem is that there's no carrot or stick here. no carbon tax for traditional cars, no rebate for electric cars (that i know of). a tangible benefit to the consumer on a monthly basis would help a lot to persuading some potential buyers.

if government is already providing rebates on solar geysers, i think that it would be a good idea to promulgate some legislation around energy saving practices across the board. i heard andrew etzinger speaking the other day about some draft legislation coming out soon. it sounded positive. the guy really impressed me, one of the few things eskom has gotten right...

 

[SlyFly]

The biggest problem is it's still to expensive... You can buy yourself a decent car for that amount of money and still run it cheaper per month...

 

[fluKe]

Do we have another one here who doesn't realise that Mybb has a motoring section http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=199504

So, in the Off Topic section of the forums?

 

[Fazda]

So, in the Off Topic section of the forums?

Yes..if you wish to spend some time browsing around here, you will find a Motoring Section in the Off Topic area...that's where we actually talk about cars, because we are allowed to...

 

[Mouse]

That price is a rip off, just like all other car prices in SA. You would expect a locally designed and manufactured car to not be as expensive as an import.

 

[shogun]

That price is a rip off, just like all other car prices in SA. You would expect a locally designed and manufactured car to not be as expensive as an import.

More expensive than a polo.. yes. A rip off... well that might be taking it a little far when you consider what these guys are doing. That's smacks of a knee-jerk reaction from someone who hasn't taken the time to think about what is involved in setting up an automotive company from scratch and designing a completely new vehicle from on new technology... without the luxury of previous models to use parts from.

I'd reserve judgement until i've seen one up close.

 

[ettubrute]

Have to agree with the general sentiment here: it's way too expensive! And the fact that they had to design, etc from scratch is no excuse! IMNSHO the reason for the price is that they are targeting overseas markets, and the SA market be damned!

Oh well... 't was a good idea...