Judge Mabel Jansen resigns

Xarog said:
If all white people are automatically racist, why should any white person give a f**k about being a racist?

Clearly it must be much ado about nothing, given the obvious fact that no change in this reality is possible.
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It was a lazy attempt to get a point across and I have already conceded as much.
 
Xarog said:
http://thoughtleader.co.za/isaacmangena/2012/04/25/gang-rape-jackrolling-lepanta-a-societal-problem/



So either there really is a cultural trend or there isn't. You'd think a judge would be in a good position to be exposed to the darker side of such trends since it would be their job to clean up the mess...

It's unfortunate that culture is still something largely determined across racial lines in this country, but it is what it is.

And if people in this country don't start having some very adult conversations about the consequences of certain cultural values we're going to come short collectively.
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Are you joking? Because a) they have a word for when two or more boys have sex with one girl at the same time (I don't know any other languages that have such words) and b) because some young people engage in risky sex, you interpret that to mean it's a cultural trend? I mean that kind of stuff never happens in other cultures right? English doesn't have words describing such things?
:wtf:
 
C4Cat said:
Are you joking? Because a) they have a word for when two or more boys have sex with one girl at the same time (I don't know any other languages that have such words) and b) because some young people engage in risky sex, you interpret that to mean it's a cultural trend? I mean that kind of stuff never happens in other cultures right? English doesn't have words describing such things?
:wtf:
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I think that one person who explains what his culture told him when he grew up is evidence to show that the idea of such a thing having cultural reality is not an absurd proposition.

You can see Isaac clarifying his point of view in the comments. It's hard to see how you could conclude that his statements, if taken at face value, do not demonstrate a systemic problem.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/nov/25/south-african-rape-survey

https://businesstech.co.za/news/general/163503/the-shocking-truth-about-rape-in-south-africa/

https://mg.co.za/article/2012-05-07-how-gang-rape-is-the-norm-in-south-africa

If masses of people grow up thinking that rape is okay such that nearly half the male population admits to having committed rape, you have a cultural problem on your hands. Saying as much and trying to identify the cultural trends that enable this does not make one racist, even if it does make some people uncomfortable.
 
Xarog said:
I think that one person who explains what his culture told him when he grew up is evidence to show that the idea of such a thing having cultural reality is not an absurd proposition.

You can see Isaac clarifying his point of view in the comments. It's hard to see how you could conclude that his statements, if taken at face value, do not demonstrate a systemic problem.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/nov/25/south-african-rape-survey

https://businesstech.co.za/news/general/163503/the-shocking-truth-about-rape-in-south-africa/

https://mg.co.za/article/2012-05-07-how-gang-rape-is-the-norm-in-south-africa

If masses of people grow up thinking that rape is okay such that nearly half the male population admits to having committed rape, you have a cultural problem on your hands. Saying as much and trying to identify the cultural trends that enable this does not make one racist, even if it does make some people uncomfortable.
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So if you spoke to one American redneck who said he grew up knowing that in his culture men beat the crap out of women and it's normal, then you would interpret that to mean that in 'white culture' it's normal for men to beat women? Yes, we have a rape problem in this country but it's not 'black culture' to rape. There isn't even such a thing as 'black culture'. In South Africa alone we have many different cultures, in Africa as whole there hundreds. WTF is 'black culture'?
 
C4Cat said:
So if you spoke to one American redneck who said he grew up knowing that in his culture men beat the crap out of women and it's normal, then you would interpret that to mean that in 'white culture' it's normal for men to beat women? Yes, we have a rape problem in this country but it's not 'black culture' to rape. There isn't even such a thing as 'black culture'. In South Africa alone we have many different cultures, in Africa as whole there hundreds. WTF is 'black culture'?
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There is no use in arguing with some of these guys, they are who they are. It doesn't seem like that would ever change.
 
Just subbing here cause I don't want to miss anything. :whistle:
 
C4Cat said:
So if you spoke to one American redneck who said he grew up knowing that in his culture men beat the crap out of women and it's normal, then you would interpret that to mean that in 'white culture' it's normal for men to beat women?
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No, I think that if I went to America and experienced several such encounters and every single time it came from an American redneck, then I might start to suspect it was specific to rednecks only.

Yes, we have a rape problem in this country but it's not 'black culture' to rape. There isn't even such a thing as 'black culture'. In South Africa alone we have many different cultures, in Africa as whole there hundreds. WTF is 'black culture'?
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I never said there was such a thing as black culture. I said that culture in this country is organised across racial lines. Do you dispute that?

As for the judge's comments, her long career as a judge presiding over cases and dealing with the worst elements of society certainly does give her a privileged position in terms of determining just what sort of nasty cultural undercurrents fester in the swamps of society.

I have now given circumstancial evidence from an outside source which corroborates her claims.

You can choose to stick your head in the sand about this issue and pretend like the facts aren't real, but that doesn't make someone who takes these things seriously a racist, even if it turns out they are mistaken.
 
I see all the usuals have now joined the thread. Wish some of them would post something intelligent as opposed to calling everyone racist.
 
Xarog said:
No, I think that if I went to America and experienced several such encounters and every single time it came from an American redneck, then I might start to suspect it was specific to rednecks only.


I never said there was such a thing as black culture. I said that culture in this country is organised across racial lines. Do you dispute that?

As for the judge's comments, her long career as a judge presiding over cases and dealing with the worst elements of society certainly does give her a privileged position in terms of determining just what sort of nasty cultural undercurrents fester in the swamps of society.

I have now given circumstancial evidence from an outside source which corroborates her claims.

You can choose to stick your head in the sand about this issue and pretend like the facts aren't real, but that doesn't make someone who takes these things seriously a racist, even if it turns out they are mistaken.
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I realise the screenshot that was posted of her comments was not very clear, and besides it being quite obvious that it's racial stereotyping, it leaves one with the impression that instead of being impartial, this judge allowed her personal experiences and those she's seen in her courtroom to colour the way she sees all black men. It's quite disgusting.
 
D3nz said:
I realise the screenshot that was posted of her comments was not very clear, and besides it being quite obvious that it's racial stereotyping, it leaves one with the impression that instead of being impartial, this judge allowed her personal experiences and those she's seen in her courtroom to colour the way she sees all black men. It's quite disgusting.
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Even if it's racial stereotyping, that does not mean it's racism.

Are you going to allow your disgust distract you from the possibility that she was remarking upon a real phenomenon?

And do you know where these comments came from in the first place? She was talking in private with Gillian Schutte who then took the comments and posted them all over the place.

How do you suppose someone who is confronted with such experiences should make sense of those experiences? Should we simply let agitators like Schutte insist that whatever problems white people observe is a result of their own privilege yada yada yada?

Do you not think that when surveys show that close to 40% of the male population of this country admits to having comitted rape, that it's time to admit that there is actually a culural problem? How would you propose we quantify this problem so that we may choose a solution that addresses the actual problem?
 
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Xarog said:
Even if it's racial stereotyping, that does not mean it's racism.

Are you going to allow your disgust distract you from the possibility that she was remarking upon a real phenomenon?

And do you know where these comments came from in the first place? She was talking in private with Gillian Schutte who then took the comments and posted them all over the place.

How do you suppose someone who is confronted with such experiences should make sense of those experiences? Should we simply let agitators like Schutte insist that whatever problems white people observe is a result of their own privilege yada yada yada?

Do you not think that when surveys show that close to 40% of the male population of this country admits to having comitted rape, that it's time to admit that there is actually a culural problem? How would you propose we quantify this problem so that we may choose a solution that addresses the actual problem?
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Racism? My personal opinion is no.
Narrow minded however, comes through loud and clear.
 
D3nz said:
Racism? My personal opinion is no.
Narrow minded however, comes through loud and clear.
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40% of men surveyed in this country admitted to having raped a woman.

You did not answer my questions.

Is this a real problem?

How does one assess the nature of the problem?

In light of these two questions, in what way is Judge Jansen's reactions narrow-minded? You must surely be able to articulate the nature of the actual problem better than she if you wish to criticise?

At this point I'm starting to get flashbacks to the Rotherham child abuse scandal. Apparently we endure any and every sort of degree of horror if our attempt to call a spade a spade incidentally offends the sensibilities of political correctness.

All these people making noises about racism and whatnot should answer these questions, and if they can't, then they're a bunch of cowards for shaming the people who are sincerely trying to address the problem.
 
Vrotappel said:
Funny we tend to keep race related stats for everything, except crime. Funny government ANC is.
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Now now, if they published those results it could be incidentally racist, and we don't want that now do we? :whistle:
 
Xarog said:
40% of men surveyed in this country admitted to having raped a woman.

You did not answer my questions.

Is this a real problem?

How does one assess the nature of the problem?

In light of these two questions, in what way is Judge Jansen's reactions narrow-minded? You must surely be able to articulate the nature of the actual problem better than she if you wish to criticise?

At this point I'm starting to get flashbacks to the Rotherham child abuse scandal. Apparently we endure any and every sort of degree of horror if our attempt to call a spade a spade incidentally offends the sensibilities of political correctness.

All these people making noises about racism and whatnot should answer these questions, and if they can't, then they're a bunch of cowards for shaming the people who are sincerely trying to address the problem.
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Lol, you've read her comments and you claim they're from someone ""sincerely trying to address the problem"? Okay then, you have a good evening.
 
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