Judge Mabel Jansen resigns

Say we take a baby from every single country in the world and put them on a island designed to give them all an equalized path through the first, say, 21 years of their life. Are their racial differences going to make a profound difference in how they turn out? I doubt it.

That there are very profound culture-related issues around the world is not even debatable. That the socioeconomic circumstances in which a population finds themselves has a profound impact on the group is also obvious. That we tend to group (or be grouped) together along racial lines is also fairly typical human behaviour (for a variety of reasons, some good, some bad and some neutral).

To my mind, there's nothing at all wrong with debating and speaking openly about the first two. However: "I feel like vomiting.... So no - the black people are by far by far from angels - their conduct is despicable" (and here she is specifically referencing black culture in relation to rape, sexual entitlement, incest, murder...) - How the **** anyone can read this and not see it as racist is beyond me.

It IS important how we frame and talk about these things. Not because being PC is important, but because healthy dialogue is the only way in which we will move forward. These issues can be spoken about without generalizing about an entire race group.
 
D3nz said:
Lol, you've read her comments and you claim they're from someone ""sincerely trying to address the problem"? Okay then, you have a good evening.
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What I have seen is a bunch of conveniently collected comments that were completely stripped of all context. To conclude that the way they appear denuded of context is what the judge was actually trying to say as part of a private conversation with a rather disingenuous individual is enough to give me pause as to what the true implications of the comments are.

Is there something you know that I don't?
 
Sad state of affairs indeed. I get what she was trying to say, but she could have said it better without so much generalisation.
 
copacetic said:
Say we take a baby from every single country in the world and put them on a island designed to give them all an equalized path through the first, say, 21 years of their life. Are their racial differences going to make a profound difference in how they turn out? I doubt it.
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Not racial differences, but genetic differences.

For most measurable individual differences, shared environment makes a negligible impact on the ultimate outcome. The only significant exception to this rule is religious belief, which can be somewhat modified by social environment. It would be reasonable to conclude that religious and cultural outlooks are largely one and the same thing separated conventionally but not separated in terms of the biological substrate that gives rise to social behaviour.

http://www18.homepage.villanova.edu...hology/zCurrDir4200/CurrDirGeneticsTraits.pdf

Temperament doesn't just control your behaviour, it outright determines what you find stimulating and what captivates your attention.

That there are very profound culture-related issues around the world is not even debatable. That the socioeconomic circumstances in which a population finds themselves has a profound impact on the group is also obvious. That we tend to group (or be grouped) together along racial lines is also fairly typical human behaviour (for a variety of reasons, some good, some bad and some neutral).

To my mind, there's nothing at all wrong with debating and speaking openly about the first two. However: "I feel like vomiting.... So no - the black people are by far by far from angels - their conduct is despicable" (and here she is specifically referencing black culture in relation to rape, sexual entitlement, incest, murder...) - How the **** anyone can read this and not see it as racist is beyond me.
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You'd be outright wrong. Heightened disgust sensitivity is the direct result of high orderliness, which together with industriousness makes up trait conscientiousness.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0025552

People who care about law and order and social norms and have the natural behavioural tendencies to enforce those norms find violations to their standard of the proper norms disgusting. You do not get the benefits of the behaviour without the motivation for that behaviour being felt by the individual expressing that behaviour.

Given that a judge would be confronted with real life examples of legitimately disgusting behaviour as part of their profession, it should come as no surprise that an judge with a proclivity for orderliness would come to regard what they've identified as the origin of the problem as disgusting. It is no surprise that the psychological manifestation of this would be a feeling of nausea and repulsion in respect to the noxious stimulant provoking the behaviour.

You do not get human moral standards without this behavioural phenomenon. To demonise it is counter-productive, and the research shows quite nicely that trying to train it away is an exercise in fantasy.

I can only imagine what sorts of nonsense that Schutte might have spewed to get the judge to feel like her own life experiences were being violated by some BS ideology about how black people should get nothing but pity. Again, to take a private comment out of context and to read it at face value is just absurd given who she was talking to and how the comments came out in public.

It IS important how we frame and talk about these things. Not because being PC is important, but because healthy dialogue is the only way in which we will move forward. These issues can be spoken about without generalizing about an entire race group.
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I agree. Demonising behaviour by not understanding what's actually going on is not a wise thing to do if you want people to be able to meet in the middle.
 
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I am acknowledging you post Xarog, and admitting I honestly don't have the wherewithal to respond appropriately.

*edit*

I do want to say though, that I am sympathetic to what you say about context and the apparently private nature of the conversation. I have no desire to engage in and take no pleasure in SJW witch hunts. As much as there's a push-back against the insane levels of political correctness expected these days, I think it's also okay to admit that some things are just racist, sexist, etc when appropriate and I think that some people have a propensity to go too far in the other direction and end up trying to defend the indefensible as a result.
 
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copacetic said:
I am acknowledging you post Xarog, and admitting I honestly don't have the wherewithal to respond appropriately.

*edit*

I do want to say though, that I am sympathetic to what you say about context and the apparently private nature of the conversation. I have no desire to engage in and take no pleasure in SJW witch hunts. As much as there's a push-back against the insane levels of political correctness expected these days, I think it's also okay to admit that some things are just racist, sexist, etc when appropriate and I think that some people have a propensity to go too far in the other direction and end up trying to defend the indefensible as a result.
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Yeah, fair enough.

I'm not saying her comments are exactly accurate. It's like how when couples fight it's not, "You didn't take out the rubbish this morning," but rather, "You never take the rubbish out, I'm always the one breaking my back to do the domestic chores around here!" yada yada yada. When people become emotionally involved, it's a given that the language will become overly dramatic.

It sounds to me like we're looking for the same middle ground.
 
copacetic said:
Say we take a baby from every single country in the world and put them on a island designed to give them all an equalized path through the first, say, 21 years of their life. Are their racial differences going to make a profound difference in how they turn out? I doubt it.

That there are very profound culture-related issues around the world is not even debatable. That the socioeconomic circumstances in which a population finds themselves has a profound impact on the group is also obvious. That we tend to group (or be grouped) together along racial lines is also fairly typical human behaviour (for a variety of reasons, some good, some bad and some neutral).

To my mind, there's nothing at all wrong with debating and speaking openly about the first two. However: "I feel like vomiting.... So no - the black people are by far by far from angels - their conduct is despicable" (and here she is specifically referencing black culture in relation to rape, sexual entitlement, incest, murder...) - How the **** anyone can read this and not see it as racist is beyond me.

It IS important how we frame and talk about these things. Not because being PC is important, but because healthy dialogue is the only way in which we will move forward. These issues can be spoken about without generalizing about an entire race group.
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Genetics largely determine your behavior.

Im not talking about race here. Just your genetics you inherit from your parents.
 
Xarog said:
What I have seen is a bunch of conveniently collected comments that were completely stripped of all context. To conclude that the way they appear denuded of context is what the judge was actually trying to say as part of a private conversation with a rather disingenuous individual is enough to give me pause as to what the true implications of the comments are.

Is there something you know that I don't?
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The part a lot of people conveniently ignore. Sad thing is the total lack of acknowledgement from some quarters that we do have an extremely serious problem around rape. This denial is evident to the extreme levels these people will go to to vilify people that do acknowledge it. Playing the race card one of the easier avenues to exercise such vilification.
 
Patrick_Hockstetter said:
Genetics largely determine your behavior.

Im not talking about race here. Just your genetics you inherit from your parents.
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Okay, so what does this have to do with anything I was talking about?

(and also for clarity; I'm not taking your statement as necessarily true - I am just not wanting to get into the nature/nurture debate)
 
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copacetic said:
No - Please do explain if I am missing something.
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We are all uniquely different. Race groups are also uniquely different. Its called diversity and its wonderful. Generics plays an important role here. Thats why removing an individual, as you stated, wont change who they fundamentally are.

Generalizing about a race group is ok, but don't be ugly about it.
 
Patrick_Hockstetter said:
We are all uniquely different. Race groups are also uniquely different. Its called diversity and its wonderful. Generics plays an important role here. Thats why removing an individual, as you stated, wont change who they fundamentally are.

Generalizing about a race group is ok, but don't be ugly about it.
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In the context of what was being discussed, do you believe that the behavioral aspects of a group of people can be attributed to race?
 
She's a whitey and made reference to a tabboo race for a whitey. Period. A whitey may not relete what they experienced or believe about black people as they would be judged as we can see clearly even this thread by a specific group. Only black people in senior or public positions are allowed to make comments against other races and [-]may[/-]will be forgiven for it and then continue their career without any consequences. For whiteys thats a taboo notion.
 
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Shaun108 said:
Sad state of affairs indeed. I get what she was trying to say, but she could have said it better without so much generalisation.
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And for that see needs to be hanged because of her race contrary what happens to others that actually makes far worse comments on a regular basis about other races also generalised to the extreme but thats ok..
 
Seriously said:
The ratios and numbers as well as cultural beliefs makes a big difference.
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Yes.

Also think of the following:

Black teen girl walks through white area in daytime.
White teen girl walks through black area in daytime.

What would happen?
 
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