Justifying Telkom Line Rental

Ekhaatvensters said:
The only way to use up more than 90GB in a month is downloading tons of torrents/P2P etc... I think 20GB is a fair amount for any user or household, seeing as most people in Canada don't give a **** (honestly) about the 90GB cap, purely people who want to download the whole month are complaining.
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At the moment it is true that heavy downloaders are mainly accessing illegal content (not the we have any data to back this up), but that would be because no-one can afford to buy or host large sized legal content.

If ADSL was faster and more affordable there are many people who would be satisfied to pay for legitimate content. But as it is people spend every spare rand they have just to get access.
 
How many households and businesses in SA have fixed telephone lines?

Assuming its in the region of (say) 5 million (probably more) and each line is attracting a rental of R110 per month, that's a monthly revenue stream of, let's see...Ooo...R550 million per month.

Now which braniac at Telkom is going to shoot the golden goose and give that revenue away because somebody called Mieliespoor can't fathom what the charge is for?

Companies are in business to make a profit, not charity.
 
Try and understand the question before you go around calling people idiots, would you?

First of all he was asking how does Telkom justify the line rental *to icasa* as the rates have to be approved by them.

The likely answer is "they don't have to" but then maybe it's up to us to *make* icasa start asking hard questions of telkom.

Secondly

MielieSpoor said:
How is it possible that Vodacom/MTN can give you a handset of a few thousand rand, carry the cost of your bundled minutes and maintain a flippen expensive netword and still show better result than the fixed line operator that don't include those minutes in their monthly bill, don't include a handset of thousands and neither main a exspensive network???
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I'm sure it's got to do with Telkom having a much bigger staff, dealing with cable theft, maintenance of old systems (the bolded bit is probably wrong) and Vodacom having a much larger customer base, but that doesn't change the fact that you didn't actually read the post before deciding that the poster was an idiot.

In future, do try and actually read a post before
* making assumptions as to what the poster is saying and
* resorting to personal attacks
 
Price Capping Regulations
Gazette no 27772 – Regulations approved under section 96 (6)
(5) The Authority may disapprove the proposed rates only if-
(a) the calculations contain mathematical errors; or
(b) the terms and conditions contained therein are in conflict with applicable laws, policy directions, and the Rate Regime, in a material respect..
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This means ICASA has to power to reject Telkom's new prices until they comply with the Regulations.

I think I am starting a complaint today.
 
We have a long way to go in this country before we are considered a free market in the telecoms sector. IMO we are still buying black coloured Fords :p

The customer is just a strange creature with money to them :/
 
eremos said:
Try and understand the question before you go around calling people idiots, would you?

First of all he was asking how does Telkom justify the line rental *to icasa* as the rates have to be approved by them.

The likely answer is "they don't have to" but then maybe it's up to us to *make* icasa start asking hard questions of telkom.

Secondly



I'm sure it's got to do with Telkom having a much bigger staff, dealing with cable theft, maintenance of old systems (the bolded bit is probably wrong) and Vodacom having a much larger customer base, but that doesn't change the fact that you didn't actually read the post before deciding that the poster was an idiot.

In future, do try and actually read a post before
* making assumptions as to what the poster is saying and
* resorting to personal attacks
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Clearly you too are missing the point, along with your buddy mieliespoor.

It's all about money. Over half a billion Rands worth of it every month. Do you have any idea how powerful money makes people and corporations?

Think outside the box for a moment: who has the final authority over what Telkom can and cannot do? ICASA?

Sure, and I suppose you believe that whoever is in charge of that particular organisation is immune to bribery? Mercedes Benz anyone? Trip to Disneyworld anyone?
 
Hang on a sec, the bit that Redheadfan posted said
From the ADSL findings

Quote:
3.1.3.2 Secondly with respect to the issue of line access and usage charges: the Authority notes that Telkom submits that there was no separate pricing that they were aware of and/or alternatively that the international trend was not to separate charges. The presentation by MyADSL on this issue proposed a compromise that in the opinion of the Authority appears fair and capable of addressing the issue of separate costs. The proposal was that Telkom be entitled to charge a once off access charge and thereafter, charge only for line rental. The Authority believes in the interests of consumer protection and without further justification from Telkom for continued charges for access, that the charge for access only be levied once off at the inception of the service and thereafter charges be restricted to line rental only. This issue is integral to the costing of the service and shall be addressed by regulation by the Authority so as to ensure enforceability.

Ermm..does that not say that ICASA think Telkom should only charge line rental once? If thats the case when will they do something about it I wonder.
Or will telkom just charge 1 line fee but make it different depending what service you have on it? Please tell me Im not an idiot Eremos :)
 
Tommygun said:
Or will telkom just charge 1 line fee but make it different depending what service you have on it? Please tell me Im not an idiot Eremos :)
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Lol.

Is the aforementioned presentation by MyADSL available anywhere? I'd love to see it.

I imagine the "compromise" is to scrap the usual rental charge and just charge people for the ADSL access portion, which would vary depending on line speed or something. If this is something that ICASA intended to enforce any time soon though, they will either have to
* decline the latest proposed tariffs and tell Telkom what they want to see instead, or
* make Telkom change again a bit further down the line (which Telkom would probably fight tooth and nail)

So in short: I dunno. ;)
 
Thank you Paris...

redheadfan said:
From the ADSL regulations
2.1 The structure of an ADSL tariff shall comprise of an installation and bringing
into service charge, a monthly rental for provisioning and maintenance of
ADSL lines and a bandwidth charge.
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From the ADSL findings
3.1.3.2 Secondly with respect to the issue of line access and usage charges: the Authority notes that Telkom submits that there was no separate pricing that they were aware of and/or alternatively that the international trend was not to separate charges. The presentation by MyADSL on this issue proposed a compromise that in the opinion of the Authority appears fair and capable of addressing the issue of separate costs. The proposal was that Telkom be entitled to charge a once off access charge and thereafter, charge only for line rental. The Authority believes in the interests of consumer protection and without further justification from Telkom for continued charges for access, that the charge for access only be levied once off at the inception of the service and thereafter charges be restricted to line rental only. This issue is integral to the costing of the service and shall be addressed by regulation by the Authority so as to ensure enforceability.
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My interpretation of this is that its a complete stuff up. Probably a topic that has been discussed at length already, but it seems quite obvious to me that the wording of the regulations does not following the recommendations of the findings!! :mad:

W.r.t. the quoted paragraphs, the findings differentiate between 'line rental' and the 'access' charge.

The regulations seem to completely lose the plot by talking about 'ADSL lines'[1], which seems to allow the loop-hole whereby Telkom can still charge for the POTS line rental as well as for the 'ADSL line' which as we should all know by now is charging twice for the same damn piece of copper!:mad:

[1] Same damn copper just plugged into a DSLAM at the exchange...
 
the reason for the extra charge is (my guess) for failures - DSLAM going pop with age, lighting etc - while they should be allowed somethin, what they are charging is totally out of hand - I think some deal was done, and like most here I would like to know what made ICASA back track - this needs to be answered
 
heheh, Nice one Mieliespoor :)

Amazulu is a Telkom employee. He sounds to me like the telkom dude i spoke to the other day.

I reported a fualt on my ADSL line.. Went thru the process with him. We then got to the part where he said: "Okay Sit the fualt has been logged" I then simply replyed with "What is the time period that I am looking at becuase with Telkom I can wait upto a year.. The dude was very shocked at what I said and told me that I am rude & its unfair that i say such things about Telkom..

Heheh to which I just replied the proof is in the pooding.. Guess what i am still waiting for Telkom :P

I agree that a company is run to make money but surely if you have a FAIR pricing scheme you will attractalot more business than overpricing your existing client tel
 
Fair pricing scheme, right, hows this for a laugh..... I got an dsl line, handset, and installation, but before i could use it i was suspended becauce my credit limit was exceeded, my telkom credit limit was R700.00 and installation costs and ect came to R2485.95 so i had to pay difference before i could be connected..............ok credit limit was adjusted aswell:rolleyes:
 
I love bashing Telkom but let me give you another side to the picture.

I live near Bapsfontein and since the government designated an informal settlement in the area the theft and particularly the cable theft in the area has sky rocketed.
The telephone lines on my street were stolen on 23 March, then 14 June and then again on 22 June (Friday). Oh and that's not even the electricity cables that were stolen twice this year already.

It costs Telkom a fair bit to hire contractors to come and replace the lines every time and in some areas they have stopped replacing them all together and are switching to wireless.
The wireless systems cost Telkom about R8000 per customer (microwave link on a pole in your yard) so you'll get the idea that replacing cable isn't cheap if they are resorting to footing the R8000.

I priced the drop wire that Telkom use (the stuff they connect from the poles to the houses). The manufacturer is ATC in Brits.
It's over R1000 for a 500m roll from a retailer and that's only for two pairs.
Even if Telkom get a 50% discount due to the volume that they use it still works out to over R1 per meter. Now what does the "real" 50 core cable cost - my guess is probably at least R20 per meter if not more.
At R20 per meter 1km of that would set Telkom back R20000.

In some areas close to where I live customers have been sitting without phones for over a year now because the amount they lose in line rentals and call charges doesn't outweigh the cost of replacing the lines.

Now I'm forced to build an alarm system for the Telkom lines so that I can chase away the theives next time because if Telkom decide to stop replacing the lines I'm totally screwed (only GPRS in my area, no 3G, no Sentech, no iBurst, etc).

I'd love it if Telkom dropped the line rental but if that means no phones to people in problem areas then I'd rather keep it.
 
Yes, Paul S, I agree, the costs of all services in areas where crime is high,will effect the consumers, but does that justify the high prices over all the installations in SA, surely that would offset the costs of stolen wire ect,..:confused: Just a thought.
 
magicman said:
Yes, Paul S, I agree, the costs of all services in areas where crime is high,will effect the consumers, but does that justify the high prices over all the installations in SA, surely that would offset the costs of stolen wire ect,..:confused: Just a thought.
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Yeah but don't be such an insensitive clod - you can't expect Telkom managers and investors to get less than a few million in dividends and bonus' each year.
I mean everyone needs to "eat".
 
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