Kieswetter is sitting with a massive problem

Virex said:
As the saying goes: "The problem with communism is that, eventually your run our of other peoples money"
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It was funnier when Maggie Thatcher said it, and of course she was referring to socialism not communism.
 
deweyzeph said:
It was funnier when Maggie Thatcher said it, and of course she was referring to socialism not communism.
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Socialism is the road to Communism, so that's when you have reached the end of the Socialist road.

She may as well have said the problem with Socialism is that eventually you end up with Communism.

Similar to Mises saying middle-of-the-road economic policies lead to Socialism.

iu
 
saturnz said:
I'm looking for something that states that objectively government functions are this and that...
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Well you won't find it because different societies believe in different roles in government.

saturnz said:
If this cannot be provided, then one can argue that its not the role of government to provide roads and water infrastructure, that free markets are able to provide these services as well.
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Bruh. You can talk about free market all you want, but the goal of any business operating in the free market is to make a profit. Not to lose money. Not to break even. But to make money off you.

saturnz said:
Capitalists can't argue government must provide this and that, its a contradiction especially if their underlying premise is that free markets work.
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Why not? That's the exact purpose for taxes. To build things society as a whole uses.

For example, it doesn't make any sense for me to pay for your TV since I can't watch it. However, it does make sense for us to split the cost of roads or water pipes since the infrastructure for those are connected and we both use them.

Or failing that, if we decide "let people pay for their own roads", I think you should pay for it. I might use it, but you can go ahead and pay. Just because. No reason. You can pay for it. It's all good. I know I use it, but why would I want to split the cost with you. You can just pay. Thanks. Have a good day.
 
"in order for free markets to work, we need monopolies to over see them" capitalists
 
lexity said:
Ftfy.

When they told you they are the epitome of Capitalism, did you believe them?

iu


Do you still believe them?
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so rvZA and zolly are crony capitalists

okay cool

tell me, do you need a central bank in your idea of an independent Cape?
 
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saturnz said:
so rvZA and zolly are crony capitalists
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That's a bit removed. You'll have to not assume I'm a mind reader, and elaborate.

saturnz said:
okay cool

tell me, do you need a central bank in your idea of an independent Cape?
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Centralized credit institutions are straight out of the Communist manifesto.

Why would I want to replicate them in any seceding jurisdiction?
 
BusinessTech said:
Kieswetter is sitting with a massive problem

South African taxpayers think giving money to SARS is just filling the pockets of corrupt politicans and broken government institutions.
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I doubt he cares. I'm sure he is convinced that taxes need to be paid no matter how the money is spent. And that the additional diligence of SARS in finding potential tax is not reflected in other departments which provide services or help maintain a functional society (eg police, health, roads, etc) is lost on him and others in such positions. He's that kind of Jean Valjean from Les Miserables (the book) than someone who sees things as a complete picture in a more conscientious way, as in do I also participate in something that is morally good or not. It's a kind of legalism which is deep in SA society, where the letter and not the spirit of the law count.

The state can put a tax defaulter in (get HIV in 5minutes) prison and so enforce violence and death on anyone, so it follows that tax payers can't do much, outside of leaving or just giving up and earning less, so there's less to take.
 
lexity said:
Ftfy.

When they told you they are the epitome of Capitalism, did you believe them?

iu


Do you still believe them?
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Milton Friedman thought that if a society had at least 300 years of education, that society would not be destroyed by upheavals such as the Chinese revolution and communism. In that regard China has a many millennia history and it is recovering well from the Communist revolution and rule. Societies which don't have those 300+ years do worse and end up struggling with more fundamental problems, such as eg war, famine, water supply, electricity, crime, etc.
 
Mirai said:
Milton Friedman thought that if a society had at least 300 years of education, that society would not be destroyed by upheavals such as the Chinese revolution and communism. In that regard China has a many millennia history and it is recovering well from the Communist revolution and rule. Societies which don't have those 300+ years do worse and end up struggling with more fundamental problems, such as eg war, famine, water supply, electricity, crime, etc.
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Milton Friedman was a force for good in many respects economic/market. But he wasn't perfect. He validated the central-bank saying it should control the money supply.

Hmm... that didn't age well. A tleast he admitted he was wrong about this, before he died.

So, on China... how can you be educated(know your history), when the State claims total responsibility for decision-making when it comes to education curricula and history?

There is no free press or education, so how would Chinese history look anything other than acceptable, if that is where you go to learn it?
 
lexity said:
Milton Friedman was a force for good in many respects economic/market. But he wasn't perfect. He validated the central-bank saying it should control the money supply.

Hmm... that didn't age well. A tleast he admitted he was wrong about this, before he died.

So, on China... how can you be educated(know your history), when the State claims total responsibility for decision-making when it comes to education curricula and history?

There is no free press or education, so how would Chinese history look anything other than acceptable, if that is where you go to learn it?
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No his point was about civilizations and not economies. It's a more fundamental observation. Chinese Revolution and communism were a great upheaval and hinderance and now China is returning to what it should be or should have been had it not been for Mao.
 
lexity said:
Ok, but how was he defining education, then?

Was it Western-oriented, or Chinese/Communist?
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Is there a 300 year history of communist education? I don't think it would matter.
 
zolly said:
Really? Didn't realise roads and water infrastructure built itself.

While I would prefer govt to stay out of my business as much as possible, I do understand that there are basic services that make sense to provide using taxes.

Otherwise you end up with this mess.

www.vox.com

How a New Hampshire libertarian utopia was foiled by bears

Seriously, this happened. You should absolutely read about it.
www.vox.com www.vox.com
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Quite an interesting article.
While reading I came to a realization that the ANC are true libertarians.

This passage stood out for me:
By pretty much any measure you can look at to gauge a town’s success, Grafton got worse. Recycling rates went down. Neighbor complaints went up. The town’s legal costs went up because they were constantly defending themselves from lawsuits from Free Towners. The number of sex offenders living in the town went up. The number of recorded crimes went up. The town had never had a murder in living memory, and it had its first two, a double homicide, over a roommate dispute.

So there were all sorts of negative consequences that started to crop up. And meanwhile, the town that would ordinarily want to address these things, say with a robust police force, instead found that it was hamstrung. So the town only had one full-time police officer, a single police chief, and he had to stand up at town meeting and tell people that he couldn’t put his cruiser on the road for a period of weeks because he didn’t have money to repair it and make it a safe vehicle.

Basically, Grafton became a Wild West, frontier-type town.
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SubtleBeast said:
Quite an interesting article.
While reading I came to a realization that the ANC are true libertarians.

This passage stood out for me:
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This looks like a 5-10 minute hatchet-job on people who insist you cannot be both free and ignorant... you must choose.

Yes, it's scary to think you as an individual may have to reclaim decision-making responsibility before things can start to work sustainably...

And?
 
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