Kit for Starting Out

srothman said:
At R9999-, is it worth the extra R1500- over the 650D bundle?
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Short answer: No.

The 700D is more of a bugfix to the 650D. If you compare the 650D to the 600D, they introduced a new on-sensor autofocus system that can be used during Live View mode. It does not really work well. I have not spent a lot of time reading about this, but I got the impression that this has been improved in the 700D. Other than that, there are no real improvements in the 700D over the 650D. Keep in mind that the main application of the "new" Live View autofocus feature would be video, so you can rate the importance of this feature relative to your expected video use.

I would normally recommend the 600D over the 650D, but bwana pointed out a significant difference in the non-Live View autofocus system (all sensors being cross-type on 650D, vs only the centre AF sensor being cross-type on the 600D), so it might be worth spending more time investigating these two.

Personally, I would recommend spending less on your first body. The 600D, 650D and 700D are on the lower end of the Canon range, so you are likely to want to replace the body in a few years (say 2) with something from the enthusiast range (60D, or even 7D), if you start running into the limitations of the xxxD range. Even if you do not upgrade in two years, you can still save money now (with a 600D) without sacrificing that much. I would rather save the money on the body, and maybe buy a speedlight in a few months (if it turns out you want one then).
 
Thanks for that. I've sort of made up my mind, and yes, been looking at the bundles featuring the 600 and 650, leaning more towards the latter.
 
bwana said:
It's limiting in so far as you're shooting everything with what is essentially a telephoto lens. Personally if I was going to limit myself to one prime lens for general use I would want something more "normal" such as a 28mm or 35mm.

Anyway, if the OP buys any of the kits already mentioned there's a 50mm f/1.8 included in the package.

Keep in mind back in the film days a 50mm was the kit lens because it was cheap to produce and zooms were expensive - everyone had one. The 18-55 kit lenses today really aren't bad lenses. They might be a little "slow" compared to the 50mm f/1.8 but they're plenty sharp.
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I understand what your saying Bwana, but again It is not limiting in any way, at the end of the day you will just have images with "less" in them, but perhaps an emphasis on something entirely different if you could "see" more.

Agreed hey, you can surprise yourself with what an 18-55 can do in the right conditions.
 
fvdbergh said:
I would normally recommend the 600D over the 650D, but bwana pointed out a significant difference in the non-Live View autofocus system (all sensors being cross-type on 650D, vs only the centre AF sensor being cross-type on the 600D), so it might be worth spending more time investigating these two.
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What about the fact that the 650D also has:
- Touch screen
- Better light sensitivity ISO 12800 vs ISO 6400
- In camera HDR
- Newer image processor (DIGIC 5 vs DIGIC 4)
- Less than half the start up delay
- 5 fps continuous shooting vs 3.7 fps
- Built in E-TTL II wireless flash transmitter

Those are substantial differences and I've found the last one in the list to be rather useful for off camera lighting using a 430EX II even inside a softbox.
 
Paul_S said:
What about the fact that the 650D also has:
- Touch screen
- Better light sensitivity ISO 12800 vs ISO 6400
- In camera HDR
- Newer image processor (DIGIC 5 vs DIGIC 4)
- Less than half the start up delay
- 5 fps continuous shooting vs 3.7 fps
- Built in E-TTL II wireless flash transmitter

Those are substantial differences and I've found the last one in the list to be rather useful for off camera lighting using a 430EX II even inside a softbox.
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The bolded features are improvements that I would consider meaningful.

Personally, I don't like the touch screen idea much, but I understand that some people might like that feature.

The 650D is still using the same sensor as the 600D, so the ISO 12800 is just a higher gain setting (possibly even software gain -- going by Bill Claff's charts, the 7D (still same sensor) loses exactly one stop of dynamic range going from ISO 6400 to ISO 12800, which would be a tell-tale sign of software scaling). Personally, I do not think any of the existing APS-C sensors offer good-quality ISO 12800 anyway. If you absolutely must have ISO 12800 on the 600D, just underexpose by one stop, and pull it up again in post --- this will yield near identical results to the ISO 12800 on the 650D.

If you absolutely must have in-camera HDR, a Nikon D5100 would be a much better choice. Not that it offers in-camera HDR (at least, I do not think it does...), but because a single exposure will give you at least 2 stops more dynamic range than the 600D/650D/700D. In other words, you can do a two-stop single-shot HDR with the D5100, which means you can do moving subjects, which would be nearly impossible with multi-shot HDR. And of course you can still do multi-shot HDR in software if you require more than two stops of latitude.

The wireless flash commander option is great, though. That would seriously swing it to the 650D for me. Still, for a starter kit, I think it is better to save the money now and buy some other gear (tripod, speedlight, lenses) after a few months when you know what type of photography you enjoy most.
 
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Spotted a 650D triple lens bundle for R8999-. Is that reasonable? Comes with a 16GB card as well.
 
fvdbergh said:
The bolded features are improvements that I would consider meaningful.

Personally, I don't like the touch screen idea much, but I understand that some people might like that feature.

The 650D is still using the same sensor as the 600D, so the ISO 12800 is just a higher gain setting (possibly even software gain -- going by Bill Claff's charts, the 7D (still same sensor) loses exactly one stop of dynamic range going from ISO 6400 to ISO 12800, which would be a tell-tale sign of software scaling). Personally, I do not think any of the existing APS-C sensors offer good-quality ISO 12800 anyway. If you absolutely must have ISO 12800 on the 600D, just underexpose by one stop, and pull it up again in post --- this will yield near identical results to the ISO 12800 on the 650D.

If you absolutely must have in-camera HDR, a Nikon D5100 would be a much better choice. Not that it offers in-camera HDR (at least, I do not think it does...), but because a single exposure will give you at least 2 stops more dynamic range than the 600D/650D/700D. In other words, you can do a two-stop single-shot HDR with the D5100, which means you can do moving subjects, which would be nearly impossible with multi-shot HDR. And of course you can still do multi-shot HDR in software if you require more than two stops of latitude.

The wireless flash commander option is great, though. That would seriously swing it to the 650D for me. Still, for a starter kit, I think it is better to save the money now and buy some other gear (tripod, speedlight, lenses) after a few months when you know what type of photography you enjoy most.
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I agree the ISO one the 600D and 650D are crap U get a lot of noise and its just not worth it . rather buy cheap now and get something like 60D or 7D , like fvdbergh said ... I cry when I look at my camera's fotos when using ISO over 800
 
DTBA said:
I agree the ISO one the 600D and 650D are crap U get a lot of noise and its just not worth it . rather buy cheap now and get something like 60D or 7D , like fvdbergh said ... I cry when I look at my camera's fotos when using ISO over 800
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What are you shooting?
 
bwana said:
What are you shooting?
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Last time was cloudy day, we shot horses jumping so needed a fast shutter speed and tried with F/8 bleh was not impressed lot of noise for 800ISO so I dropped the f stop
 
DTBA said:
Last time was cloudy day, we shot horses jumping so needed a fast shutter speed and tried with F/8 bleh was not impressed lot of noise for 800ISO so I dropped the f stop
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I kinda meant what camera.... :)
 
...and what about the Nikon D3200?

LOL! Sorry, I know I am all over the place, but I've spent the most of the day trying to figure out how deep this rabbit hole goes, and man, it's deep!

I've browsed several websites, trying to find a the best price, and I've been comparing the prices of the camera bodies only between online retailers, figuring that is probably the most accurate way to compare, and seriously, I wish I hadn't.

The more I read, the more I am intrigued by this.
Stuff this! I am getting a camera for myself now... the wife can borrow it from time to time :-)
 
srothman said:
...and what about the Nikon D3200?

LOL! Sorry, I know I am all over the place, but I've spent the most of the day trying to figure out how deep this rabbit hole goes, and man, it's deep!

I've browsed several websites, trying to find a the best price, and I've been comparing the prices of the camera bodies only between online retailers, figuring that is probably the most accurate way to compare, and seriously, I wish I hadn't.

The more I read, the more I am intrigued by this.
Stuff this! I am getting a camera for myself now... the wife can borrow it from time to time :-)
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You have no idea…
f074ee058ff0aaca7baee55683085b2e_zpsd5be8a13.jpg

Since then I've added another body (Canon 1Dx) and a few other assorted goodies including a set of pocketwizards).
 
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bwana said:
You have no idea…
f074ee058ff0aaca7baee55683085b2e_zpsd5be8a13.jpg

Since then I've added another body (Canon 1Dx) and a few other assorted goodies including a set of pocketwizards).
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400D could use a clean :D:D
 
DTBA said:
600D :P
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600D is producing too much noise at ISO800?
IMG_0382.jpg
My dog is the closest I could find to stand in for a horse…

Maybe you're just being a little fussy? Stop looking at 100% - nobody else will. :)
DTBA said:
400D could use a clean :D:D
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Probably - my kids use the two 400Ds I've got now but they've stood the test of time. :)
 
bwana said:
600D is producing too much noise at ISO800?
View attachment 53207
My dog is the closest I could find to stand in for a horse…

Maybe you're just being a little fussy? Stop looking at 100% - nobody else will. :)

Probably - my kids use the two 400Ds I've got now but they've stood the test of time. :)
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Maybe its true I am bit fussy anyway got a bigger prob my live view mode has a red dot on my lcd screen ( looks like a stuck pixel) but when i record a video its also on the video on my pc but it doesn't show up in fotos :(

Good little camera that 400D
 
Hi guys.

I am also on the hunt for something starter.
Opinions on 650D v Nikon 5100 what is the after sales service of the manufacturers like in SA.


And I am very intrigued by the mirror less cameras. Main concern here is lens options, but as I am starting I am sure there will. Be more available by the time I really want it.
 
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