Know Your Uneducated Ministers

[TheHiveMind]

"JM is not going to be in government atleast for the next five years, so the may be a chance that he will further his studies, so don't count him out yet."

Oh, unless he will be getting a brain transplant, I think its a given that he can be counted out of everything apart from finger painting.

 

[porn$tar]

JM is not going to be in government atleast for the next five years, so the may be a chance that he will further his studies, so don't count him out yet.

no doubt it'll take him that long to finish Grade 12

 

[semiautomatix]

no doubt it'll take him that long to finish Grade 12

Thats optimistic!

What was his excuse for his bad grades again? Oh yes, he was so excited about joining the ANC Youth League that he couldn't concentrate for 2 years

 

[2CentsWorth]

I don't really get the point of this. I am a qualified CA and I work as a computer programmer. So technically I am not qualified for my job but I have oodles of experience and knowledge gained over many many years.

 

[semiautomatix]

I don't really get the point of this. I am a qualified CA and I work as a computer programmer. So technically I am not qualified for my job but I have oodles of experience and knowledge gained over many many years.

The difference is that you don't learn about farming by sitting in a comfy office as Minister of Agriculture. This would be equivalent to you stating that you're a qualified CA but you read a book on programming and are now an expert (which obviously isn't true).

In your case you have actual experience by doing.

 

[BBSA]

I don't really get the point of this. I am a qualified CA and I work as a computer programmer. So technically I am not qualified for my job....

Are you one of the programmers on the eNatus system?

 

[JungleBoy]

The difference is that you don't learn about farming by sitting in a comfy office as Minister of Agriculture. This would be equivalent to you stating that you're a qualified CA but you read a book on programming and are now an expert (which obviously isn't true).

In your case you have actual experience by doing.

Are you saying a minister of Agriculture must be someone with farming experience?
Perhaps you do not understand the levels of management, i.e. Strategic, Tactical, and Operational. If ministers were operational or tactical managers then I would agree that they need the relevant experience, but they are not. At a strategic level it's more about overviews, long term direction etc.

Trevor Manuel probably only understands the basics of finance. He studied engineering . But he's been a very good finance minister.

 

[semiautomatix]

Are you saying a minister of Agriculture must be someone with farming experience?
Perhaps you do not understand the levels of management, i.e. Strategic, Tactical, and Operational. If ministers were operational or tactical managers then I would agree that they need the relevant experience, but they are not. At a strategic level it's more about overviews, long term direction etc.

Trevor Manuel probably only understands the basics of finance. He studied engineering . But he's been a very good finance minister.

And what would you be managing JungleBoy? In the private sector if you don't understand your company's core business (as a manager) you will fail. Where should funds be directed, when should they be directed, what emergency funds should we set up, etc, etc.

Maybe you need not be a farmer, but you should definitely be someone who has experience in that sector. Would you hire a BA graduate to take care of your company's accounting, no you would hire a CA who has the relevant educational experience without possibly ever having had worked in the sector.

 

[JungleBoy]

And what would you be managing JungleBoy? In the private sector if you don't understand your company's core business (as a manager) you will fail. Where should funds be directed, when should they be directed, what emergency funds should we set up, etc, etc.

Maybe you need not be a farmer, but you should definitely be someone who has experience in that sector. ?

I disagree. Good strategic management does not require specific skills and knowledge in that sector

Would you hire a BA graduate to take care of your company's accounting?

If I was a small firm, probably not, but in a big corporation the lack of in depth knowledge is masked by the fact that there are layers of management underneath.
The CEO, or COO of a corporation in most cases has IT, Finance, HR, Marketing, Communications etc reporting directly to him. All these fields may or may not be the company's core business. The company could be a bank, telkom, or eskom, but these things are the same across. Does he need to have worked in all these areas? or does he need to have masters degrees from all these fields?

 

[semiautomatix]

I disagree. Good strategic management does not require specific skills and knowledge in that sector
If I was a small firm, probably not, but in a big corporation the lack of in depth knowledge is masked by the fact that there are layers of management underneath.
The CEO, or COO of a corporation in most cases has IT, Finance, HR, Marketing, Communications etc reporting directly to him. All these fields may or may not be the company's core business. The company could be a bank, telkom, or eskom, but these things are the same across. Does he need to have worked in all these areas? or does he need to have masters degrees from all these fields?

No, your assumption is incorrect. Those are not the company's core business. It may be a large retail chain like Pick 'n Pay - retail is the company's core business; IT, Finance, HR, Marketing, Communications are merely division required for supporting the core function. Trust me, Raymond Ackerman has oodles of experience in retail.

 

[BBSA]

Good strategic management does not require specific skills and knowledge in that sector

Africa is a basket case because of logic like that.

 

[semiautomatix]

Africa is a basket case because of logic like that.

I agree, mismanagement of funds is a problem because these "leaders" have not idea about how to amicably distribute money to necessary areas within their sector.

 

[JungleBoy]

No, your assumption is incorrect. Those are not the company's core business. It may be a large retail chain like Pick 'n Pay - retail is the company's core business; IT, Finance, HR, Marketing, Communications are merely division required for supporting the core function. Trust me, Raymond Ackerman has oodles of experience in retail.

in the govt executive there is the president, minister, director general, chief directors, directors, deputy directors.
these bold ones are political appointees, the rest normal appointees
Same with mayors - Hellen Zille has what relevant education or experience to run the city of CT? She has run it very well. But could she have been given the post if she wasn't the leader of the DA?

 

[JungleBoy]

Africa is a basket case because of logic like that.

No, dude. It's not necesarily the case.
Good managers can and should be able to manage anything...the secret to good management is not in the technical expertise as such.

 

[JungleBoy]

I agree, mismanagement of funds is a problem because these "leaders" have not idea about how to amicably distribute money to necessary areas within their sector.

perhaps that is the job of the DG

 

[semiautomatix]

perhaps that is the job of the DG

I didn't say they were being illegally misappropriated, I meant that the wrong people are ending up with the money too often (completely legally). Those who should benefit are not because the ministries don't understand their sector.

 

[gpe]

There's just one problem with all this --- how many of these degrees and doctorates were awarded as "honorary degrees & doctorates" ??

Difficult to tell and its a little different than spending 4 or 5 yrs and 100K applying yourself towards these degrees

 

[BBSA]

No, dude. It's not necesarily the case.

Dude, not necessarily but probably.

 

[JungleBoy]

There's just one problem with all this --- how many of these degrees and doctorates were awarded as "honorary degrees & doctorates" ??

Difficult to tell and its a little different than spending 4 or 5 yrs and 100K applying yourself towards these degrees

Besides, you don't get that much practical experience there...knowledge maybe

 

[DJ...]

Jungleboy - that is not how things operate in the private sector, for obvious reasons. You won't find cross-sector management pollution like you do in the public sector at all. The CEO of Pick N Pay is most certainly not in a position to lead AngloGold to success. At most they will cross industries within the same sector, but jumping sectors in a senior management position requires significant experience and expertise in that sector.

A perfect example here is Mr Balfour who jumped from sports minister to correctional services minister and that is a problem. This is commonplace in the public sector however common sense says that there is very little in his education or experience that makes him qualified for the position. In fact his experience wasn't right to manage the sports portfolio either. However there is no operational synergy between sports and correctional services. You're harping on under the false illusion that a CEO is responsible for only the financial health of a company which is patently false. They are ultimately responsible for general operations, overall financial health, risk management, regulatory and legal issues, marketing, sales and distribution, personnel, corporate finance, general administration, investor relations, planning and management of all of these things as well. All of which require a significant understanding of the sector, industry and the company itself. If cross-sector pollution happened in the private sector like it does in the public sector, investor confidence would drop completely - ask any investor about this. This is why it is best practice for companies to advertise their senior management's experience and expertise on their investor relations website.

It therefore stands to reason that if we resolved these management issues in government, investor sentiment for SA would increase significantly. What you're highlighting is essentially a board member's responsibilities who are only interested in value derived for shareholders - financial reasons only pretty much. That is government (as a shareholder) in this scenario. The man on the ground ultimately responsible (the CEO or minister in this case) MUST have extensive expertise, experience and education in the sector and industry. The board members hire the CEO/minister...