Lead SA - driving with your lights on - why?

[UnUnOctium]

How exactly does the alternator "work harder"? Does it spin harder? Does it put more voltage out? Does it generate more friction?

less resistance to alternator as it needs to generate more current. Therefore it takes more power to do a revolution of the rotor.

 

[bin3]

It only increases visibility in countries where the days are really dark during the winter (i.e. nordic countries). I never drive with DRLs as it makes you look like a w4nk3r and wastes fuel (even if it is a little).

I'd rather look like a "w4nk3r" then be responsible for killing somebody because I wanted to save some money.

 

[eclipsedx]

Yeah wonder why in a big part of the World with a bit smarter people it is law to drive with your lights on?

 

[blaaislaai]

Dark cars should drive with their lights on during the day, as they almost fades in with the color of the road.

 

[UnUnOctium]

I'd rather look like a "w4nk3r" then be responsible for killing somebody because I wanted to save some money.

In this country, you're not going to kill someone because you don't have your lights on during the day. In fact, you might if you do since I've seen many an idiot with brights on with the sun fully up. Up north in Europe (especially northern Europe) where the sun sets at 16.00 and during the day it's just dark and gloomy is a whole different matter.

Added Reference: http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspubl...70b5b6&disposition=attachment&contentType=pdf stolen from wiki
"The analysis determined that DRLs offer no statistically-significant reduction in the frequency or severity of the collisions studied, except for a reduction in light trucks' and vans' involvement in two-vehicle crashes by a statistically-significant 5.7%."

 

[bin3]

In this country, you're not going to kill someone because you don't have your lights on during the day. In fact, you might if you do since I've seen many an idiot with brights on with the sun fully up. Up north in Europe (especially northern Europe) where the sun sets at 16.00 and during the day it's just dark and gloomy is a whole different matter.

I respectfully disagree with your statement and position, and think I have clarified my position enough in this thread.

Added Reference: http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspubl...70b5b6&disposition=attachment&contentType=pdf stolen from wiki

"The analysis determined that DRLs offer no statistically-significant reduction in the frequency or severity of the collisions studied, except for a reduction in light trucks' and vans' involvement in two-vehicle crashes by a statistically-significant 5.7%."

5.7% seems quite significant in my view.

 

[UnUnOctium]

I respectfully disagree with your statement and position, and think I have clarified my position enough in this thread.



5.7% seems quite significant in my view.

Only at first. How many vehicles on the road are vans and light trucks? I'd say an educated, optimistic guess (including taxis) will be 20%? So a reduction of 5.7% on 20% = 1.14% overall reduction. The effect of added CO2 emissions will be significantly larger.

 

[bin3]

Hmm;

Lets say +/- 500 000 motor accidents in a year, and let's say only 10% of those involves a truck

That still gives 50000 accidents in a year.

so with 5.7% of that gives 2850 accidents that could have been prevented.

If only 1 in 100 accidents causes a fatality, that is still 20 people a year that will die because DRL looks "stupid".

 

[UnUnOctium]

Hmm;

Lets say +/- 500 000 motor accidents in a year, and let's say only 10% of those involves a truck

That still gives 50000 accidents in a year.

so with 5.7% of that gives 2850 accidents that could have been prevented.

If only 1 in 100 accidents causes a fatality, that is still 20 people a year that will die because DRL looks "stupid".

Indeed, statistically insignificant when you look at it compared to the effects caused by increased emissions.

 

[bin3]

Indeed, statistically insignificant when you look at it compared to the effects caused by increased emissions.

I have no answer to this: For some reason I do not have the ability to put a value on a human life.

 

[atomcrusher]

How exactly does the alternator "work harder"? Does it spin harder? Does it put more voltage out? Does it generate more friction?

An alternator / generator is driven my a car's engine to keep the battery charged. And any load (e.g. anything that consumes the power it generates - in this case the car headlights) will create more load on the alternator, which translates on the car engine having to work just that little bit harder to keep it outputting the same voltage, so the car will use more (a tiny amount) fuel.
But .... my comment in my previous post is not to be taken too seriously anyway

 

[bin3]

Very long posting to follow: Please just skip it if you want ...

1. Headlights as safety feature http://www.openroad.com.au/motoring_roadsafety_headlightssafefeature.asp

Daylight savers

Your headlights can save your life, even in broad daylight.
Turning your headlights on during the day may save your life. Even on sunny days, unlit vehicles can be difficult to see at times. NRMA research has found that more than half of all collisions in daylight are due, in part, to one road user failing to see the other road user in time to avoid a collision. In fact, failure to see other road users early enough is a contributing factor in four out of five daytime intersection accidents.

However, it's important that you use the right lights and use them correctly. Fog or parking lights, for instance, are of little benefit during the day, and high beam headlights can dazzle and irritate oncoming traffic. Low beam headlights are the best available option until specially designed 'Daytime Running Lights' become more widely available and accepted in Australia.
Daytime Running Lights or DRLs are in use in Europe and North America. DRLs are more visible in daylight than standard low beam headlights and are more energy efficient. They are permitted in Australia under the Australian Design Rules for Road Vehicles (ADRs) but are not yet readily available.
It is estimated that well-designed DRLs could prevent a quarter of all fatal daytime collisions and more than a quarter of fatal daytime pedestrian accidents. Cyclists and motorcyclists would also benefit from being better able to see approaching vehicles.
What are daytime running lights?

Daytime Running Lights (DRLs) are bright white forward-facing lights designed to increase the visibility of vehicles. They are common in Europe and North America.
Overseas studies have shown that DRLs reduce daytime accidents by making vehicles more conspicuous to other road users. The greatest benefits are with more severe accidents, including head-on and intersection crashes, and collisions with pedestrians and cyclists.
Other important benefits of DRLs reported in the studies are:
Improved driver reaction times and estimation of speed and distance.
DRLs make vehicles appear closer, which makes drivers less likely to launch into hazardous manoeuvres.
The positive effects produced by DRLs do not dissipate over time.
The only negatives are that DRLs incur a small additional cost to install in a new car, estimated at less than $50 per new car, and they cause a small increase in fuel consumption (estimated at 0.5%).

2. Cost http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-efficiency/fuel-economy/drl-gas-consumption.htm/printable
To figure out how much extra gasoline the United States would use if all 244 million cars on its roads were equipped with mandatory DRLs, we'll have to make a few assumptions [source: DOT]. First, we'll assume that DRLs would average out at about 90 watts total -- roughly between the low and the high wattage capabilities, and that the fuel penalty therefore would probably be mid-range as well: about 1 percent. With the help of a graph provided by the Federal Highway Administration, we can see that of the 7 billion miles (11.3 billion kilometers) Americans drive every day, approximately 70 percent of those are driven during daylight hours, which equals about 4.9 billion miles (7.9 billion kilometers) driven during the time when DRLs would be in use. [source: EIA, DOT].

Since the average consumer car in the United States gets about 20.3 miles (32.6 kilometers) per gallon, that means Americans currently use about 241.4 million gallons of gas for driving during daylight hours. To get that number, we divided the number of miles driven throughout the day by the average car's fuel efficiency (4.9 billion miles divided by 20.3 mpg) [source: DOT]. Now, when we factor in the 1 percent reduction in fuel efficiency, that usage increases to 243.9 million gallons -- a difference of more than 2 million gallons.

At current U.S. prices ($3.81 per gallon as of August 2008), that would be a total of more than $7.62 million every day [source: EIA]. Of course, when you divide that by the number of cars on the road, it's not even a penny per car. So if you want to contest the purpose of a DRL law, you're going to need more up your sleeve than fuel consumption.

3. My personal opinion with regards to cost and carbon

We would save a lot more of the environment by making sure our tyres are inflated to the proper pressure than driving with DRL.

 

[TYR]

I'm just glad that not a lot of people actually switch on their lights during the day. At the moment (when in my car) I can still easily spot a biker that is lane-splitting on the highway in my rearview mirror. As it starts to get darker and more people switch on their lights, it definitely become harder to spot the bikes (and not just because its getting dark).

With the bike I actually leave home a little bit later in the mornings ... more traffic, but at least most people have their lights off ... definitely feels safer. And it's not about a dislike of riding when its dark. If I can't leave work while the sun is still shining then I'll also rather stay a bit longer until traffic has calmed down a bit. Not feeling visible is no fun when you're lane-splitting. .... but I'll look at adding some oranges headlamp covers, they do stand out.

 

[markings]

I understand your point, but I still do not understand how this could achieve any discernible difference - at dusk one should be driving with your lights on already. In very overcast conditions too. In broad daylight however, lights on have been more than just a nuisance, they've been dangerous when the tonsils with brights on decide that it makes them even more visible. Like I said in the OP, in broad daylight I can see an entire car, so should all drivers. If you can't, then there is something very wrong with your eyesight and driving with your lights on won't solve it.

What I see these days are headlights, whereas I used to see an entire vehicle...

There can be no doubt that headlights on even during the day makes a car more visible. This is especially true on a country road onto which the sun bakes down and the heat flimmer distorts what ones sees no matter how good one's eyesight is.
IMO, the main idea is to reduce head-on and side-on collisions.

 

[markings]

Not feeling visible is no fun when you're lane-splitting.

The solution to this is so simple, lane split at a slower speed.

 

[Pitbull]

I reckon a third to half the bikes I see don't have their lights on...

Then their lights aren't working. You can't switch off a bike's headlight/s

 

[phiber]

Dark cars should drive with their lights on during the day, as they almost fades in with the color of the road.

yea, i got one of those dark grey cars, same color as the road. Try to always keep my dipped lights on when i drive. Sometimes I do forget, but its on 95% of the time.

 

[Fazda]

I always drive with my lights on - obviously not bright, in order to be visible to idiots who are asleep at the wheel and pedestrians.

Certain colours also blend in with the road, and by running with your lights on you at least know that you can be seen.

There are also certain times where lights should be essential, and the first of them is driving east to west in the mornings or west to east when the sun is setting in the afternoons. You are effectively driving "out" of the sun and motorists coming the opposite way are almost blind if the sun is low on the horizon.

Another danger point is driving through the mottled light under tree lined roads, where some colours simply disappear as they run through sun and shadow.

I am not alone in this as well, and you will be told on certain advanced driving courses that it is the right thing to do...ie...remain visible to all other motorists/pedestrians at all times.

I am just amazed by the arrogance of some people who refuse to see the benefit of running with lights on and think that those of us who do, are a bunch of idiots.

Before shouting the odds, perhaps you should think of the safety conscious manufacturers who make daylight running LED's for their cars. This forum is often the centre of debate when it comes to NCAP ratings - it bemuses me that some of the same people who will hammer a Citi Golf for not having an airbag will say that we are a bunch of idiots for running with our lights on...I'd rather be seen/flashed at or waved to because of the crime of running with lights on - at least I've been "seen" by the other idiot who is quite capable of overtaking someone if I am not visible to him, and having a head on smash with me.

 

[justplain]

surely with the growing trend of new cars with daylight running lights ( such as Audi, Hyundai, Merc....etc) we will see more and more car lights on during the day. While I'm skeptical as to whether they actually help avoid incidents in broad day light, I do see how it can be effective in changing weather conditions and early in the morning and at dusk.
but I do agree with another poster, if you are going to drive with your lights on, FFS just use your normal lights and NOT your brights...and yes....PLEASE turn off that rear fog light, damn near blinds you.

 

[Fazda]

surely with the growing trend of new cars with daylight running lights ( such as Audi, Hyundai, Merc....etc) we will see more and more car lights on during the day. While I'm skeptical as to whether they actually help avoid incidents in broad day light, I do see how it can be effective in changing weather conditions and early in the morning and at dusk.
but I do agree with another poster, if you are going to drive with your lights on, FFS just use your normal lights and NOT your brights...and yes....PLEASE turn off that rear fog light, damn near blinds you.

Agreed on the brights and the rear fogs. As I have said more than once ,however, I am slowly becoming convinced that 90% of the pedestrians in SA are blind and hell bent on committing suicide...the ONLY way to make sure that these idiots actually see you is to run with your lights on....well, it at least sorts out about 60% of the idiots!