Leaving SA for good

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nkpza

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Got the stamp on my passport allowing me to move+work in Canada. I applied so that I have an option in case things go badly in SA. Now that I have it, all I can think of is selling everything and moving. I don't have family in SA and most of my SA friends will be moving to UK,Aus, Canada or US in the next 1-2 years. Part of me wants to stay in SA and be part of the process of building the country so I can be part of something bigger. Other part of me is pessimistic and telling me to leave while I can and my savings are worth something. In SA, I earn good money in IT and will move up the ladder quickly. In Canada, I'll have to start at a lower paylevel and compete with the other millions of Chinese and Indian immigrants. However I'm more confident about the future, albeit a dull, predictable one, in Canada than I am in SA.

Anyone else contemplating the same/similar move? Just want to hear other points of view on this...
 
Its a tough question...

We have our backup to the EU in case things go bad. I'm finding ways of building a little capitol there in the mean time, but I'm not planning on moving..

Don't let the media get you down. They thrive on sensationalism and will make things out as bad as they can so sell papers. Also don't get put off by people like Lance here on the forum who will not even consider that things might go bad.
Its good you have a backup plan, and if I where you I would work on that by building a little capitol over there, but don't up and duck just yet.
 
Spend a year in any other country and you wil find they have similar problems. I am often in the US and many people worry about the state of the country. I have heard similar stories from friends in the Netherlands, Sweden and Australia. You should only move if there is something genuinely better, not to escape the problems of your current country. Unless of course things turn really sour, but that is an unlikely scenario methinks.
 
Part of me wants to stay in SA and be part of the process of building the country so I can be part of something bigger. Other part of me is pessimistic and telling me to leave while I can and my savings are worth something.
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Your problem is that the pessimistic side of you gets fed a lot more often as a result of most of the people you come in contact with probably having similar views on the future of this country (and yes, I mean us whites). And this is not in direct reference to your specific friends and acquaintances but a general one. I hear the moans, groans and gripes daily myself. My friends know better than to spew pessimism at me but work colleagues and acquaintances don't.

I personally have no desire and no intention of emigrating (actually I should use some emotional terminology like those arguing from the "other side" are likely to do and call it running).

I am interested in finding out how you can be more confident about your future in Canada? Have you lived there for an extended period before?
 
Madman88 said:
Also don't get put off by people like Lance here on the forum who will not even consider that things might go bad.
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So you are suggesting that rather than putting your lot into this country and making the most of your life here one should rather try to live here but at the same time have one eye on something else. Do you always partake in things half heartedly?

I have never said that things will never "go bad"! I just choose not be preoccupied with what might be and rather choose to make the most of what I have. I cannot fathom how this can be regarded as a strange way to lead your life :rolleyes:
 
Good luck - drop us a line when you get there.

The world is a small place nowadays.

As long you so you don't turn into one of the "SA Bashers" 'cos you no longer live here.

You may even come back one day, who knows.

:)
 
If you do go make a clean break for it. It's a huge step and having niggling doubts can really undermine your chances of success.
 
LancelotSA said:
So you are suggesting that rather than putting your lot into this country and making the most of your life here one should rather try to live here but at the same time have one eye on something else. Do you always partake in things half heartedly?

I have never said that things will never "go bad"! I just choose not be preoccupied with what might be and rather choose to make the most of what I have. I cannot fathom how this can be regarded as a strange way to lead your life :rolleyes:
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No. I', just saying that my family is more important to me than some misplaced patriotism in a country that places me second. There is nothing half hearted about what I do. What I meant by the post is that your point of view is off putting to alot of people. Its kinda ... unbalanced.
 
nkpza said:
millions of Chinese and Indian immigrants
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that.

Canada's demographics are fast changing. The Chinese and Indian are known to work extremely hard (sorry to bring race into this) and outsource their white counterparts because they are willing to put in that much extra hours. I know its a generalisation, but it happens often enough to be fact. Working your way from the bottom up, will not be easy, and I don't see why you should leave if you have a higher up job here.

South Africa was supposed to go "down the drain" since the '80s. Really now, you should have faith in your country.
If you are pessimistic, go travel. It will open your mind to how the other side of the world is like, the good and bad. You'll realise how much you actually are so accustomed to this place, and eventually how much you love it and its people.

I was in Korea for a good four months, GOD knows how much I missed SA..
Many people who have left to the UK, Australia are always home sick.

If you have easy access to Canada, but have a great job here, use logic: only leave IF things go badly. But I'll bet you my savings it won't.
 
Madman88 said:
No. I', just saying that my family is more important to me than some misplaced patriotism in a country that places me second. There is nothing half hearted about what I do. What I meant by the post is that your point of view is off putting to alot of people. Its kinda ... unbalanced.
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Pointless us getting into a to and fro slinging match but I find it rather interesting that my optimistic view that the future of this country is not as bleak as many choose to make it out to be is seen as unbalanced but you are presumably totally accepting of the view that it is going down the drain and things are spiralling out of control.

I also find your insinuation that my family is not important to me a rather feeble attempt to get the high ground in this discussion. I fail to see why one cannot be patriotic and have their family's best interests at heart. At least my kids will grow up with a sense of identity and belonging. I can only imagine the confusion in kids who constantly hear their parents talking about emigrating and belittling the country of their birth.
 
nkpza said:
Anyone else contemplating the same/similar move? Just want to hear other points of view on this...
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I'm trying to keep my options open just in case. If things really do hit the fan I'm covered but only if airlifts where being deployed.

Personally I would love to work in Canada or New Zeeland for a few years but will most likely only do that once my kids are out of school (in 18 yrs time). But I would return.
 
the grass is not greener on the other side but find it out yourself. many south africans come back after leaving the country. I admit I am glad I am european as I can leave any moment should something unexpected happen. I am busy planning and starting another business in australia but I can tell you one thing, I will always come back to SA for several months a year and I am extremely happy about having a permanent residence.

I promise you one thing, you will miss the SA summer very soon. and despite all the **** that's going on in this country, the feeling of personal freedom is irreplaceable and not something you will find in many other countries, believe it or not.
 
I think the real issue in this country is violent crime. That is what I will be running from. If something ever happened to my family because I chose to stay here, I would blame myself. They deserve better. Yes, crime is everywhere in the world, but nowhere near the levels of SA, nor with such blatant disregard for the humanity of others.

And for those saying that crime is exaggerated by the media or isolated: having had my mother stabbed in Rondebosch, having witnessed two murders, one in Retreat the other in Bergvliet, currently testifying as a witness in the latter case which has finally come to court three years later. I think I am quite justified in my position. I have friends who have also faced similar experiences in their lives. Please tell me now that I am unjustified in leaving.
 
Well Canada has more crime and a smaller population.... I cant tell if thats violent crimes though, but the stat is there, more crime in Canada per capita than in SA

edit: ok, depending on the source either country can have more crime. But they are close, roughly 75 crimes per capita for both countries. The UK and US have even higher rates. But I can confirm that SA is regularly number one for violent crimes per capita. What does that mean for us? Probably nothing, since I'd bet that most violent crimes occur in the rural areas. I'd actually be very interested to see what our crime stats would be if those areas are omitted. I think it will make a strong argument for giving everyone a better education instead of goverment hand outs.
 
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Ghost29 said:
I think the real issue in this country is violent crime. That is what I will be running from. If something ever happened to my family because I chose to stay here, I would blame myself. They deserve better. Yes, crime is everywhere in the world, but nowhere near the levels of SA, nor with such blatant disregard for the humanity of others.
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So I trust you will blame yourself if you were to run and something were to happen to your family there? Perhaps a victim of crime. Perhaps a victim in a car accident. Perhaps a victim of drug addiction. Perhaps... perhaps... perhaps... If you never left these things might never have happened. You would never forgive yourself..... You see how life works?

And claiming "they deserve better" implies that you have already made up your mind that things are crap here so that is great for you. It is probably better that you leave. But what gets me down is the repeated attempts to convince everyone else that they should also leave.
 
Have a look here for stats on murder with firearms - Link
South Africa - 31,918
Canada - 144

And per capita
SA - 0.719782 per 1,000 people
Canada - 0.00502972 per 1,000 people
 
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