Lebanon under attack

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Border Fighting Intensifies Between ISIS and Lebanon

BEIRUT, Lebanon — A deadly confrontation worsened on Monday between Lebanon’s armed forces and Islamist insurgents from Syria who seized the border town of Arsal over the weekend in what appeared to be the most serious spillover of the Syrian civil war into Lebanese territory since the conflict began more than three years ago.

The Lebanese Army said in a statement that its forces were engaged in fierce battles with the Islamists in Arsal, where witnesses reached by telephone, including the deputy mayor, said shelling had hit the town from multiple directions and thousands of residents had fled.

Arsal is also one of the temporary homes for many of the Syrian war refugees who have sought sanctuary in eastern Lebanon, and witnesses said Lebanese Army checkpoints were refusing to let the refugees relocate deeper into the country. Some refugees said they were panicking because they had nowhere to go.

“Some residents here are angry with us — they’re refusing to host any of us thinking that we are behind such fighting, as if we were the ones who welcomed the insurgents,” said a refugee reached by phone, who identified himself only by his first name, Walid. He said at least one refugee encampment of tents had been burned by shelling.

“The situation is miserable,” said Arsal’s deputy mayor, Ahmad Flitti. “Now the shelters are full. Soon we are going to have shortages in drugs, and hospitals here will not be able to receive more wounded.”

The United Nations refugee agency’s Lebanon representative, Ninette Kelley, said in a statement that she had traveled to the Bekaa Valley region near the fighting on Monday and was conferring with Lebanese officials “to determine what additional supplies should be mobilized for civilians in need, including food, water and medicines.”

More than a third of the 1.1 million registered Syrian refugees in Lebanon are in the Bekaa Valley, according to United Nations refugee agency statistics.

The 15-member United Nations Security Council also expressed concern about the Syria war’s spillover into Lebanon. In a statement, the Council said it supported efforts by the Lebanese military and security forces “to counter terrorism and address other security challenges.”

The Lebanese Army statement said its casualties from three days of fighting totaled 14 soldiers killed, 86 wounded and 22 missing, with at least some of them presumed captured by the militants. More than 20 Islamist fighters were also believed to have been killed, but it was impossible to determine their precise casualties.

The Arsal fighting began on Friday when the Lebanese Army arrested Imad Ahmad Jomaa, the commander of a Syrian Islamist rebel group, in Arsal. His disciples, which included brigades affiliated with Al Qaeda and the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, or ISIS, then attacked Lebanese troops, and the insurgents seized control of the town. They have demanded Mr. Jomaa’s release as a condition for any cease-fire.

“Let them release our emir and we are ready to pull out from all over the town,” said one of Mr. Jomaa’s deputies, reached by phone in Arsal, who identified himself as Abu Osama. “Or else we will escalate and expand, and we will ask for more demands.”

Cross-border clashes and shelling from the Syrian side have sometimes disrupted the Syria-Lebanon frontier, but the takeover of a Lebanese town by ISIS members was unprecedented. While the push into Lebanon by ISIS was limited, it reflected the aims of the group, whose fighters see the entire area as their future monolithic Islamic state.

“It’s another front for ISIS and another sign containment of the Syria crisis has failed,” said Andrew J. Tabler, of the Program on Arab Politics at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy.

The Lebanese cabinet met in an emergency session on Monday to deal with the Arsal crisis, and Prime Minister Tammam Salam appeared to have ruled out negotiations with the town’s Islamist insurgent occupiers.

“There is no political solution with extremist groups who are manipulating the Arab communities under religious obscurantism and strange titles, seeking to transfer their sick acts into Lebanon,” Mr. Salam said in a televised statement. “Today, the only solution is the withdrawal of the gunmen from Arsal and its surroundings.”
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http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/05/world/middleeast/isis-lebanon-syria.html?_r=0
 
This is a very bad development. I highly doubt Lebanon has the capacity to resist these guys if it escalates. If they are rolling the Iraqi army - which is well equipped - and pushing the Peshmerga back, Lebanon does not stand a chance if it heats up there.

Israel should be a little concerned by this.
 
Mods (and Gary): Note that I have deliberately created this as a new thread and not included it in the Syrian conflict thread.
 
LEBANON ARMY URGES FRANCE TO SPEED UP WEAPONS DELIVERY

Lebanon's army chief General Jean Kahwaji urged France on Tuesday to speed up the delivery of weapons under a Saudi-financed deal, as his troops battle jihadists on the Syrian border.

"This battle requires equipment, materiel and technology that the army doesn't have," Kahwaji told AFP.

"That's why we need to speed up the delivery of the necessary military aid by finalising the list of weapons requested from France under a Saudi-financed deal backed by the Rome conference to support the army," he said.

Last December, Saudi Arabia agreed to finance a $3 billion deal to purchase military equipment and weapons from France for Lebanon's army, which has long complained of being sorely under-equipped.

And in mid-June, at an international conference in Rome, the international community pledged its backing for the Lebanese military.

But talks on the list of material to be furnished to the army under the Saudi-French deal have yet to be finalised.

Kahwaji's request came as the Lebanese army battles jihadists in the Arsal region of eastern Lebanon on the border with Syria.

He warned that "the situation in Arsal is dangerous."

"The battle that the army is undertaking in the mountains of Arsal is just one in a series of confrontations against terrorism in all its forms and wherever it is," he added.

At least 16 soldiers have been killed in the Arsal fighting, including two officers, according to security sources, and the army said 22 troops are missing, possibly taken hostage.

Another 20 policemen are also missing, security sources say, and 86 soldiers have been wounded.

"The army's fight against the takfiris (extremists) is continuing and the army is determined to recover the missing soldiers," Kahwaji said.

The fighting in Arsal erupted on Saturday after soldiers arrested a man accused of belonging to Al-Qaeda's Syrian affiliate, Al-Nusra Front.


Source : Sapa-AFP /lk
Date : 05 Aug 2014 10:53
 
FRANCE SAYS TO 'QUICKLY MEET LEBANON'S NEEDS' ON ARMS

France said Tuesday it would move quickly to answer a call from Lebanon for faster arms deliveries as it battles Islamist militants on the Syrian border.

"France is fully committed to supporting the Lebanese army, a pillar of stability and unity in Lebanon," deputy foreign ministry spokesman Vincent Floreani said.

"We are in close contact with our partners to quickly meet Lebanon's needs," he said.

Lebanon's army chief General Jean Kahwaji urged France on Tuesday to speed up the delivery of weapons under a Saudi-financed deal.

Saudi Arabia in December agreed to finance a $3-billion deal to purchase military equipment and weapons from France for Lebanon's army, which has long complained of being badly under-equipped.

Kahwaji's request came as the Lebanese army battles jihadists in the Arsal region of eastern Lebanon on the border with Syria.

The fighting erupted on Saturday after soldiers arrested a man accused of belonging to Al-Qaeda's Syrian affiliate, the Al-Nusra Front.


Source : Sapa-AFP /lk
Date : 05 Aug 2014 14:36
 
I know its been said before, but I'm really starting to believe that this is the start of WWIII ultimately, and its going to be centered around the Middle East and involve countries on one side and insurgents like ISIS and such on the other... and its probably going to be the most brutal in terms of civilian casualties.
 
ToxicBunny said:
I know its been said before, but I'm really starting to believe that this is the start of WWIII ultimately, and its going to be centered around the Middle East and involve countries on one side and insurgents like ISIS and such on the other... and its probably going to be the most brutal in terms of civilian casualties.
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Which big players do you see backing movements like ISIS?
 
OrbitalDawn said:
Which big players do you see backing movements like ISIS?
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Other than some rogue countries in that region, I don't see any countries backing ISIS... but most countries militarys are not geared for this kind of warfare.
 
ToxicBunny said:
Other than some rogue countries in that region, I don't see any countries backing ISIS... but most countries militarys are not geared for this kind of warfare.
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Hmm, but then I don't see how this would descend into a world war? It would likely just be prolonged and brutal conflict in the Middle East. Same as the previous 2000 years, in other words.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
Hmm, but then I don't see how this would descend into a world war? It would likely just be prolonged and brutal conflict in the Middle East. Same as the previous 2000 years, in other words.
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It just seems to be escalating from what I can tell, and spilling over into more and more countries in the region... That is where I see the World War aspect.. and the possibility that other nations may have to step in and help the incumbent governments
 
In saying that, I don't necessarily see this possibly ending up as big in terms of military involvement, at least not from a massive weaponry point of view.. but it might involve a fair number of countries with a fair amount of manpower on the ground.
 
ToxicBunny said:
In saying that, I don't necessarily see this possibly ending up as big in terms of military involvement, at least not from a massive weaponry point of view.. but it might involve a fair number of countries with a fair amount of manpower on the ground.
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IMHO, the days of large military's meeting to do battle is not the issue, but rather a breakdown of more and more countries heading into regional or internal conflict, with no quarter given or taken from either side.
The risk of escalation will depend on the proximity they take to the borders of larger countries, or the event of a spill over to a larger country.
 
ToxicBunny said:
It just seems to be escalating from what I can tell, and spilling over into more and more countries in the region... That is where I see the World War aspect.. and the possibility that other nations may have to step in and help the incumbent governments
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The only way this would be anything even remotely like a world war is if China or Russia attacked Israel directly, causing Uncle Sam to get involved. And then it would inevitably turn nuclear as neither Russia nor China stand a chance against the US conventional forces. Maybe if they teamed up but that also seems unlikely, and if that happens the entire NATO would come down on them like a few thousand tons of bricks. Which again would mean nuclear according to Russian military doctrine.

The right factors just aren't in place, and hopefully never will be again. There are no closely matched superpowers and the world economies are so interdependent that no-one can really afford to upset the balance.
 
I know the logic behind everything, and yes I do understand things are different in terms of having no equally matched superpowers and such.. but I think the superpower aspect isn't quite as important in this type of conflict, its whether other countries get dragged in to try restore some stability to the region..

I honestly obviously am in two minds about the whole thing, and its just a vaguely formed opinion and nothing more.
 
TJ99 said:
The only way this would be anything even remotely like a world war is if China or Russia attacked Israel directly, causing Uncle Sam to get involved. And then it would inevitably turn nuclear as neither Russia nor China stand a chance against the US conventional forces. Maybe if they teamed up but that also seems unlikely, and if that happens the entire NATO would come down on them like a few thousand tons of bricks. Which again would mean nuclear according to Russian military doctrine.

The right factors just aren't in place, and hopefully never will be again. There are no closely matched superpowers and the world economies are so interdependent that no-one can really afford to upset the balance.
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Don't think Russia would go nuclear that easily. They had the opportunity once or twice during the Cold War where there were false positive US nuclear launches on them and they declined to return fire. Think it was Gorbachev?

And especially since this conflict doesn't even involve them directly. They like selling weapons to all and sundry, but they wouldn't necessarily start a nuclear war over it.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
Don't think Russia would go nuclear that easily. They had the opportunity once or twice during the Cold War where there were false positive US nuclear launches on them and they declined to return fire. Think it was Gorbachev?

And especially since this conflict doesn't even involve them directly. They like selling weapons to all and sundry, but they wouldn't necessarily start a nuclear war over it.
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You misunderstand. They won't do much of anything over this in the real world. That was a hypothetical. I said IF it were to turn into an actual war, their conventional army would be ****ed and they'd be backed into a corner. Similar to what eventually happened to Germany in early 1945. If that happens, i.e. they are facing certain defeat, their policy is to release the [-] kraken [/-] nukes. Or at least so I've read somewhere.

The previous times, they weren't facing a direct threat.

In the real world they just take over the occasional peninsula, sell oil, gas and weapons to everyone and troll people.
 
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