Loadshedding affordable battery setup?

[zll]

and what did you come up with?

Nothing, because it's not provided as part of the specs on the site that sells it.

 

[Park@82]

......

I am still editing and adding to that BTW.

 

[Park@82]

Nicely done, I would add "gel" into the LA group aswell.

I would also adjust the wording about cycling lithium deeply affects the life cycle because it isn't really true. 3000 cycles is rated at 100 DOD at 1C (in most cases), so they are absolutely hammering the batteries (100A) in their tests then after 3000 cycles you still have 80% capacity left. I would emphasize the issue with LA's though and that they don't like heavy loads.
Also add in the Peukerts law that effects LA's but not lithium.

Another thing to add is the recharge time of LA (long absorption) vs LFP (no absorption).

Hope that makes sense?

Thanks. That is form my blog site. I'm still actively editing it and I want to add some additional information.

Sizing power stations / inverter trolley solutions - South African Consumer

What is a power station / inverter trolley / inverter battery box/ solar generator? It is a portable enclosure that typically houses a battery, an inverter, and a charger. It looks like loadshedding is here to stay and you may have decided that you would like a portable solution that would be...

southafricanconsumer.co.za

This is how I came up with that statement:

I looked at this:

BU-808: How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries

Manufacturers take a conservative approach and specify the life of Li-ion in most consumer products as being between 300 and 500 discharge/charge cycles.…

batteryuniversity.com

(see attachment I'm posting form the mybb app)

It shows number of cycles going up as depth of discharge goes down on both NMC and LFP.

Unless I missunderstood?

 

[wingnut771]

Nothing, because it's not provided as part of the specs on the site that sells it.

Well, I believe the 15A story as that is believable.

 

[AlphaJohn]

Oh cool they sell em lose as well:

GeeWiz 1000VA (600W) PURE SINE Inverter Battery Charger (UPS) - 12V - Lithium Compatible

Geewiz PURE SINE WAVE Inverter 1000VA 600W Selectable charge rate, 10A/15A LCD Screen Intelligent FAN - The fan comes on only when charging and on high load. Once daily once fully charged Please note that the fan is loud when it operates Lithium Compatible

www.geewiz.co.za

Def gonna pick one up on payday, and sell my 800W

 

[Park@82]

Nothing, because it's not provided as part of the specs on the site that sells it.

Yeah I. Im not 100% sure about the 15a. Geewiz needs to confirm.

It looks like this inverter :

GeeWiz 1000VA (600W) PURE SINE Inverter Battery Charger (UPS) - 12V - Lithium Compatible

Geewiz PURE SINE WAVE Inverter 1000VA 600W Selectable charge rate, 10A/15A LCD Screen Intelligent FAN - The fan comes on only when charging and on high load. Once daily once fully charged Please note that the fan is loud when it operates Lithium Compatible

www.geewiz.co.za

Is that a 10a and 15a at the back? Can't tell for sure.

 

[wingnut771]

Thanks. That is form my blog site. I'm still actively editing it and I want to add some additional information.

Sizing power stations / inverter trolley solutions - South African Consumer

What is a power station / inverter trolley / inverter battery box/ solar generator? It is a portable enclosure that typically houses a battery, an inverter, and a charger. It looks like loadshedding is here to stay and you may have decided that you would like a portable solution that would be...

southafricanconsumer.co.za

This is how I came up with that statement:

I looked at this:

BU-808: How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries

Manufacturers take a conservative approach and specify the life of Li-ion in most consumer products as being between 300 and 500 discharge/charge cycles.…

batteryuniversity.com

(see attachment I'm posting form the mybb app)

It shows number of cycles going up as depth of discharge goes down on both NMC and LFP.

Unless I missunderstood? View attachment 1480715

Sorry, got you mixed up with other poster.

You aren't misunderstanding, I just think that data is outdated. Where do they get 600 cycles from when you get specs from manufactures of 3000 cycles at 100% DOD with 1C load?

Case in point:

Hubble Lithium | S-100A

The S-100A is the latest addition to our S series and is a high performance lead-acid drop-in replacement succeeding the popular S-120 Series

www.hubblelithium.co.za

Admittedly it doesn't mention DOD but I'm sure if I look hard enough I'll find something.

edit: ok found one:

Bronze 12V and 24V - LiFePO4WER

LIFEPO₄WER IS A SOUTH AFRICAN IMPORTER AND DISTRIBUTOR OF LITHIUM SOLAR AND BACKUP BATTERIES - Together with our parent company Scott’s Shipping Services (Pty) Ltd providing the logistics we source directly from the manufacturer providing unparalleled value in the South African market.

lifepower.za.com

 

[AlphaJohn]

Yeah I. Im not 100% sure about the 15a. Geewiz needs to confirm.

It looks like this inverter :

GeeWiz 1000VA (600W) PURE SINE Inverter Battery Charger (UPS) - 12V - Lithium Compatible

Geewiz PURE SINE WAVE Inverter 1000VA 600W Selectable charge rate, 10A/15A LCD Screen Intelligent FAN - The fan comes on only when charging and on high load. Once daily once fully charged Please note that the fan is loud when it operates Lithium Compatible

www.geewiz.co.za

Is that a 10a and 15a at the back? Can't tell for sure.

 

[wingnut771]

Can you tell now?

 

[AlphaJohn]

View attachment 1480729

Yep that is a 15

How do I know? If I take my glasses off the world looks like that

 

[wingnut771]

View attachment 1480727

Well, its not 50A.

 

[Dimpie (JIGSAW)]

Nicely done, I would add "gel" into the LA group aswell.

I would also adjust the wording about cycling lithium deeply affects the life cycle because it isn't really true. 3000 cycles is rated at 100 DOD at 1C (in most cases), so they are absolutely hammering the batteries (100A) in their tests then after 3000 cycles you still have 80% capacity left. I would emphasize the issue with LA's though and that they don't like heavy loads.
Also add in the Peukerts law that effects LA's but not lithium.

Another thing to add is the recharge time of LA (long absorption) vs LFP (no absorption).

Hope that makes sense?

I am still editing and adding to that BTW.

Was just supplying a pdf version as per Zolly's request ... didn't mean to steal or step on toes.

Please continue and add what Wingnut suggests. supply us a pdf once done

Great work by the way

 

[Park@82]

Sorry, got you mixed up with other poster.

You aren't misunderstanding, I just think that data is outdated. Where do they get 600 cycles from when you get specs from manufactures of 3000 cycles at 100% DOD with 1C load?

Case in point:
View attachment 1480721

Hubble Lithium | S-100A

The S-100A is the latest addition to our S series and is a high performance lead-acid drop-in replacement succeeding the popular S-120 Series

www.hubblelithium.co.za

Admittedly it doesn't mention DOD but I'm sure if I look hard enough I'll find something.

edit: ok found one:
View attachment 1480725

Bronze 12V and 24V - LiFePO4WER

LIFEPO₄WER IS A SOUTH AFRICAN IMPORTER AND DISTRIBUTOR OF LITHIUM SOLAR AND BACKUP BATTERIES - Together with our parent company Scott’s Shipping Services (Pty) Ltd providing the logistics we source directly from the manufacturer providing unparalleled value in the South African market.

lifepower.za.com

Yeah so 80% DOD means you need to leave 20% in the tank in order to get 2000 cycles.

Which is why recommend 20% in my blog post.

You should get more cycles the lower you DOD...

I suspect that manufacturers may be lying about the amount of cycles. No one is counting cycles.

 

[wingnut771]

Yeah so 80% DOD means you need to leave 20% in the tank in order to get 2000 cycles.

Which is why recommend 20% in my blog post.

You should get more cycles the lower you DOD...

I suspect that manufacturers may be lying about the amount of cycles. No one is counting cycles.

but it's not like you're killing it by going lower like in LA though. It's just the voltage drops quickly at the bottom of the curve and you may end up with the bms disconnecting and having to faf with trying to wake it up again so 20% is a safe buffer zone.

 

[Park@82]

but it's not like you're killing it by going lower like in LA though. It's just the voltage drops quickly at the bottom of the curve and you may end up with the bms disconnecting and having to faf with trying to wake it up again so 20% is a safe buffer zone.

I didn't say that you are killing them. I just said:

"Note that the life expectancy in terms of cycles is affected by how deep you discharge a battery. The less deeply you discharge it, the more cycles you can expect to get from them. For this reason, it is a good idea to make sure that the power station that you opt for has more watt hours (Wh) of available power than the amount you would actually be using, so that you don’t deplete it all the way to 0% before recharging it."

I guess I could re-write this to make it a bit clearer.

 

[wingnut771]

I didn't say that you are killing them. I just said:

"Note that the life expectancy in terms of cycles is affected by how deep you discharge a battery. The less deeply you discharge it, the more cycles you can expect to get from them. For this reason, it is a good idea to make sure that the power station that you opt for has more watt hours (Wh) of available power than the amount you would actually be using, so that you don’t deplete it all the way to 0% before recharging it."

I guess I could re-write this to make it a bit clearer.

You said a cycle is 100 to 0 and back to 100. So if you are only half discharging then that is only half a cycle so life expectancy doesn't change, you just take twice as long to get there.

 

[6174]

I am thinking of building something like this for myself.
Just without the solar. A hybrid inverter can charge its batteries
from grid power. So basically a massive UPS that is able to
power the house.

 

[soulie]

View attachment 1480863
I am thinking of building something like this for myself.
Just without the solar. A hybrid inverter can charge its batteries
from grid power. So basically a massive UPS that is able to
power the house.

that is damn nice and you can put a cover over it to protect it if outside .that one is made to be lifted safely by a forklift or trolley jack

 

[soulie]

You said a cycle is 100 to 0 and back to 100. So if you are only half discharging then that is only half a cycle so life expectancy doesn't change, you just take twice as long to get there.

do you know anyone that has actually tried a claim versus cycles with a distributor .i wonder if any have been entertained yet ,its still early days

 

[wingnut771]

do you know anyone that has actually tried a claim versus cycles with a distributor .i wonder if any have been entertained yet ,its still early days

Still early days but anyway, "affordable" LFPs only have up to a 3 year warranty, so the warranty will be up before the cycles anyway. The main thing to worry about is a cell going bad, not so much it losing capacity imho.