Loan against endowment policy?

xrapidx

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Hi Guys

I have a few endowment policies which mature next year March - they haven't done well - think the biggest growth was 3%.

I was going to cash them in and use the money to pay off my car, bond, etc.... but someone mentioned you can leave the policy as is, and take a loan against it...

How does this work, do you pay interest, how does the payback work, etc?

Ta!
 
Why take out a loan to pay off a loan, unless the interest rate and charges are a lot lower?
Wait till they mature and use the money then.

ABSA private bankers not helping you?
 
Thats why I'm trying to find out what the benefits are of 'loanng' the money against the policy - trying to figure out what it entails - e.g. if I have 38,000 units worth R150,000 - how would a loan against that work?

I think the benefit of not withdrawing the money on maturity is that you don't pay CGT on the policy with a loan...

ABSA - Haven't asked them - but they're not the original brokers of the policy - never heard after the fly-by-night broker who sold the policy after he sold it.
 
Thats why I'm trying to find out what the benefits are of 'loanng' the money against the policy - trying to figure out what it entails - e.g. if I have 38,000 units worth R150,000 - how would a loan against that work?

I think the benefit of not withdrawing the money on maturity is that you don't pay CGT on the policy with a loan...

ABSA - Haven't asked them - but they're not the original brokers of the policy - never heard after the fly-by-night broker who sold the policy after he sold it.

My uncle had policies from when he was in his 20's, now in his 70's and says don't waste your time. They're worth f all to him.

He was a manager at Barclays bank and knew about finances, so I guess nobody knows everthing.
 
Loaning against them doesn't sound like a good plan to me.

Get them paid out & kill your debt with it. There *might* be a tax benefit to getting half paid out now & half in march (next tax year). Not sure how tax on those policies works though.
 
Thats why I'm trying to find out what the benefits are of 'loanng' the money against the policy - trying to figure out what it entails - e.g. if I have 38,000 units worth R150,000 - how would a loan against that work?

I think the benefit of not withdrawing the money on maturity is that you don't pay CGT on the policy with a loan...

ABSA - Haven't asked them - but they're not the original brokers of the policy - never heard after the fly-by-night broker who sold the policy after he sold it.

Loans in policies are often not money loans but what I may call Negative investments. What you really do is sell units back to the insurer. When you want to repay the loan you repay the value of the units ( current price) back to the insurer. Thus if the market has gone up you repay a greater amount than you borrowed. If the market has gone down you pay a lesser amount. However if the market has gone down so has the value of the units that remained. So you really in a loose loose situation
 
Don't borrow against a policy, you will get nailed.

You would be better off getting an overdraft from the bank.

Or just wait until they mature.
 
Hi Guys

I have a few endowment policies which mature next year March - they haven't done well - think the biggest growth was 3%.

I was going to cash them in and use the money to pay off my car, bond, etc.... but someone mentioned you can leave the policy as is, and take a loan against it...

How does this work, do you pay interest, how does the payback work, etc?

Ta!

Depends on the product.

Some older generation products would actually result in you paying interest if you took a loan. Others will allow you an advance prior maturity (again with older ones you just need to ensure there are no penalties for taking the money prior to maturity). With the newer generation products you have free access to your investment after the initial five year term has passed.

Remember the industry has changed dramatically in the last few years. The product you have changes what you can and can't do.
 
Loans in policies are often not money loans but what I may call Negative investments. What you really do is sell units back to the insurer. When you want to repay the loan you repay the value of the units ( current price) back to the insurer. Thus if the market has gone up you repay a greater amount than you borrowed. If the market has gone down you pay a lesser amount. However if the market has gone down so has the value of the units that remained. So you really in a loose loose situation

Hmmm - see that's what I was trying to understand.

If my understanding is correct, you only pay CGT on the portion of money that is greater than what you put in, so basically your profit - which in this case is only 3% - not exactly a lot of money.

Depends on the product.

Some older generation products would actually result in you paying interest if you took a loan. Others will allow you an advance prior maturity (again with older ones you just need to ensure there are no penalties for taking the money prior to maturity). With the newer generation products you have free access to your investment after the initial five year term has passed.

Remember the industry has changed dramatically in the last few years. The product you have changes what you can and can't do.

Its Liberty Excelsior 300 Moderately Aggressive policy - taken out in April 2005.

Not sure if that helps.
 
I have that exact policy. Less than stellar performance to be sure.
 
The penalties for taking your fund early on that product is :

Month/ Penalty (as percentage of value of units taken)
55 2.06%
56 1.64%
57 1.22%
58 0.80%
59 0.38%
60 0%

In terms of legislation, one loan and one withdrawal is permitted during the first five years. The sum of these may not exceed the contribution plus 5% p.a. compound interest.

Liberty Life's business practice is as follows:

* No advance (either a loan or a withdrawal) is allowed in the first year;
* Only one advance is allowed in the first five years;
* Advances are restricted to a maximum of 90% of the investment value less charges at the point in time the advance is taken, less any previous advances made.
* After an advance has been taken, the contract may be surrendered on the following basis:
o If only a portion is accessible (in terms of legislation), such a request will be treated as a part-surrender.
o If there is no accessible amount, then no further access will be allowed until the expiry of the restriction period.
* Any advance (loan or part-withdrawal) taken within the initial term of the policy is subject to a surrender charge.

After the initial five-year period, the investor is able to make as many advances(loans or part-withdrawals) from the contract as he wishes, provided that the total amount does not exceed 90% of the investment value, less any previous advance made and that the remaining value in the investment account is greater than R600.

Advances are proportionately taken from each investment portfolio that the contract is invested in. In the case where the investor allocated his monies to a guaranteed portfolio, the guarantee will fall away on the proportion taken as an advance.

The advance (either a loan or part-withdrawal), within the initial term of the policy, is subject to the Surrender Administration charge of R250. (See charges). There are no further surrender charges.
 
I have that exact policy. Less than stellar performance to be sure.

It did ok - till around 2007/8 - I actually have a thread about cancelling it somewhere.

... I think the monies will do much better whacking interest off my bond.
 
The penalties for taking your fund early on that product is :

Month/ Penalty (as percentage of value of units taken)
55 2.06%
56 1.64%
57 1.22%
58 0.80%
59 0.38%
60 0%

Not planning on taking it early - only taking it at maturity.

I meant leaving it until maturity, and then taking a loan on it - leaving it 'dormant'.
 
I have that exact policy. Less than stellar performance to be sure.

It is not the product that performs, or does not, it is the portfolio choice.

There was (I say was as this product is no longer available and has been replaced by new generation products) a vast range of portfolios available on this product. The Excelsior Aggressive was one of them.
 
It did ok - till around 2007/8 - I actually have a thread about cancelling it somewhere.

... I think the monies will do much better whacking interest off my bond.


As shown in those quoted tech specs :

After the initial five-year period, the investor is able to make as many advances(loans or part-withdrawals) from the contract as he wishes, provided that the total amount does not exceed 90% of the investment value, less any previous advance made and that the remaining value in the investment account is greater than R600.
 
It did ok - till around 2007/8 - I actually have a thread about cancelling it somewhere.

... I think the monies will do much better whacking interest off my bond.

You might find the fund fact sheet on this portfolio interesting.

http://docs.google.com/viewer?url=h...ents/exelsior/200909/excelsior-aggressive.pdf

10% return in the last 3 months. 21 in six months (as at Sep 2009). It is recovering nicely.

But in saying that who knows what the future holds for markets.
 
After closer inspection - I think its time to cash in the policy - Liberty are charging almost R300 in fees on a premium of R2200.
 
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