Local Loop Unbundling: Please give your feedback

[ranger]

At the end of the day, it's not the real issue. The real issue is access to the International links. We can run 1Gbps all day between JHB and CTN, but if we are strangled on the undersea cables, what's the point?

Telkom does not have a stranglehold on undersea cables. A number of ISPs or other service providers have circuits on undersea cables.

The fact that Neotel/Seacom seems to not be as reliable as SAT-3 is not a regulatory or Telkom problem ...

 

[Skynews]

I agree, why not make all 4 available? But could we hurry and get this done this week?

I am so sick and tired of the useless crowd they call Telkom, I wish they would sink into the ground, and stay out of first world comms

 

[MickeyD]

I agree, why not make all 4 available? But could we hurry and get this done this week?

I am so sick and tired of the useless crowd they call Telkom, I wish they would sink into the ground, and stay out of first world comms

You do know that they will still use Telkom, do you?

 

[Skynews]

You do know that they will still use Telkom, do you?

Yes I guess, but the biggest problem with Telkom is that "last mile" but we need others who want to do it right and make sure they keep their customers ..Telkom knows right now we have no choice mmm now there is a new name for Telkom "NOCHOICE" I would rather have "YOURCHOICE"

 

[zamicro]

Yes I guess, but the biggest problem with Telkom is that "last mile" but we need others who want to do it right and make sure they keep their customers ..Telkom knows right now we have no choice mmm now there is a new name for Telkom "NOCHOICE" I would rather have "YOURCHOICE"

If you really wants nothing to do with Telkom, then you must rather vote for no unbundling. If no unbundling takes place, then other network providers will slowly start to build their own last mile. But as all of them are currently waiting for an easier (cheaper) entry to the last mile, they are waiting for unbundling to take place, so that they can use the existing Telkom infrastructure.

 

[Roman4604]

If you really wants nothing to do with Telkom, then you must rather vote for no unbundling. If no unbundling takes place, then other network providers will slowly start to build their own last mile.

Unfortunately this is neither viable nor desirable for the majority of users.

The copper network in SA is many, many orders of magnitude larger & far wider reaching than all other types of fixed line infrastructure (e.g. fibre). It has taken many, many decades to grow to this size, with a large part of its foundation being funded by tax-payers in the P&T years. ~90% of the cost of laying fixed line infrastructure is related to trenching & other civil works, and the cost of replicating even a small portion of the scale would be uneconomically viable for other operators/providers (even if they all clubbed in together).

Our fixed line broadband market is just too small and there is not enough capital to fund this kind of venture (within an acceptable timeframe) without further state/tax payer subsidisation. Thus, as in other markets, the only practical option to simulate the fixed line broadband market (& reduce cost) is to share this un-replicatable national asset in a fair & sustainable manner. This is exactly what LLU regulation aims to achieve.

 

[msmoorad]

most of you guys here seem much more knowledgeable than me on this subject.

what id like to see is no ADSL line rental and much faster speeds with real uncapped internet.
but, we should not focus so much on the ADSL/internet part that we forget that we all should be able to have a decent landline/fixed line telephone service- there appears to be none better than Telkom at the moment(even with all their bull****).

i dont know if im correct but with full LLU there is a very good chance of lots of disruptions in service due to many telecoms companies having access to the copper lines.
if there is damage done to the line, we consumers have to wait for this telecomms co to sort it out etc..
im trying to be optimistic but what if things go from bad to worse?
i know we have a 100% cell phone penetration rate but i & many others still prefer to use the landline.

another issue:
Icasa, Dept of Telecomm, SABC, Deptof Education etc- should all get together and try to educate the blacks in rural areas about the advantages of the internet- together with removing the ADSL line rental- the cost factor is what is preventing most of the population(which happens to be black)from having an ADSL connection.
they may have cellphones & use that to surf the web but its not the same as the real thing.

they comprise the majority of the poulation and Telkom (& other ISP's) will not see the rural exchanges as an attractive target due to the very same reason: very few users/consumers.
they should launch an intensive campaign using simple language while reducing the cost of internet by removing ADSL line rental- then see how the number of subscribers increase. what i notice is that ad campaigns to educate people are mostly noticable in urban areas where the people already know about things- they need to focus on rural areas and not use complicated language- just a simple, straightforward ad campaign.

 

[Bern]

What seems to be happening is that the government is slowly just going to build various alternative networks to replace Telkom eventually, which is such a complete waste of infrastructure and resources. Here is another great looking initiative which is essentially only happening because Telkom have failed in their mandate to provide to these communities (at a reasonable price).

http://www.itweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=37038&catid=147

Then look at the DOC plan to spend R800Mill via Sentech to get Rural broadband amongst other projects. Vodacom/MTN/IS/Neotel?brodband Infraco/Fibreco etc are going to take the urban market from Telkom, now gov is taking the rural market (funny since it is still a parastatal). Piss Poor Planning from Telkom. LLU at least guatrantees you are in the market for more than the next 5 years.

 

[SCRAMJet]

Full LLU, telkom are just greedy

 

[SlasherZA]

Whilst I keep dreaming I have no hope of LLU being here in the next 5 to 10 years... Pity really

 

[fordguy]

I also vote for everything.

 

[tiandup]

Full Local Loop! Screw Telkom! They havn't contributed anything. Time for change

 

[georgegolding]

Full Local Loop Please

I'm going with Full Local Loop Unbundling because I see no reason for Telkom to hold onto any aspect of the line. I would ideally like to someday pay for naked ADSL from a provider of my choice.

The biggest problem Telkom has, it only attends to exchanges and problem areas where there is a ridiculously large demand, such as the Mother City. If you just outside the City using a Woodstock/Salt River exchange your stuck with a majorly overloaded 40 year old rusty exchange with bad jitter and speeds.

A private vendor would take care of this immediately. Telkom should look after the business to business relationships, act as a wholesaler and look after the core network. They can consolidate and allow private business to look after the end user. Here they can be brilliant, and the pressure from business will keep them on their toes. Its a much better dynamic for the public than the current structure.

Lastly the forcing of people to pay for an analogue line with an ADSL line is daylight robbery. The new CPA does not allow this, but how do the public go about demanding that Telkom enforcing this. It is against the lay, any lawyers out there?

 

[Tomtomtom]

The biggest problem Telkom has, it only attends to exchanges and problem areas where there is a ridiculously large demand, such as the Mother City. If you just outside the City using a Woodstock/Salt River exchange your stuck with a majorly overloaded 40 year old rusty exchange with bad jitter and speeds.

A private vendor would take care of this immediately.

I'm not so sure... yes, innovation would increase efficiency, but the less profitable exchanges will always be less profitable, the last to attract investment, and the slowest to improve. The solution for businesses in Woodstock is of course to move to the CBD... which is why that costs more in every respect, and only worsens the situation for those left in Woodstock.

I don't think opening the local loop would change this situation -- at best it might bring improvement across the board, but relatively speaking, people around less profitable exchanges will still be worse off than those in the CBD (if not even more worse off than they were before).

Telkom should look after the business to business relationships, act as a wholesaler and look after the core network. They can consolidate and allow private business to look after the end user. Here they can be brilliant, and the pressure from business will keep them on their toes. Its a much better dynamic for the public than the current structure.

Agree 100%

Lastly the forcing of people to pay for an analogue line with an ADSL line is daylight robbery. The new CPA does not allow this, but how do the public go about demanding that Telkom enforcing this. It is against the lay, any lawyers out there?

I'm not a lawyer, and don't really care if it's against the law -- I want to how it makes economic sense. Telkom is selling a service (analogue voice) that many of us don't use. Since we still need the copper line, I doubt the voice hookup component amounts to more than a few Rand, if not cents, on our monthly bills... but multiplied to the size of their ADSL userbase, cutting it out might be a substantial saving for Telkom, if not for us.

So that's the thing: I think we have this bundling outrage directed backwards. We will save just pennies individually by letting our phones go dead, but Telkom could save quite a lot. If we push naked ADSL as being in Telkom's own interest, maybe they will buy it sooner than if we wag the CPA at it

 

[Bern]

@ Tomtomtom

I think you missed the point there, if Telkom were to focus a business unit on the wholesate aspect and providing backhaul they could reduce their operating costs drastically. They could let the operators make sure the latest tech is in the Exchanges and dealing directly with customers. They could focus on making sure the actual cables and backhaul are working properly. Telkom would be PAID by the operators, so they would not lose money, they can just focus better.

There operator unit would then be forced to operate more efficiently in order to compete properly which would be great. No one is going to suddenly drop prices below a sustainable level for a sustained period of time. Having these operators would probably imbrove delivery in outlying areas as there will be multiple business models and ideas on how to offer services to these customers which Telkom has not yet even thought of.

Think if this as an example:
Town a has a number of people who would like ADSL, but there are no ports at the exchange available. A small local operator could bundle some services and place their own DSLAMs in at the various exchanges around said town and bulk purchase backhaul from Telkom or to the nearest POP of another ISP. They could offer a number of other complimentary services (I am thinking of the WISP and wireless network operators here) that would basically ensure Telkom sells more overall. Telkom could be very clever and offer SIP based voice services or something like that as a "small operator starter package" to get these small operators running. This enable much faster technology implementation by the local guys and reduce the overheads for Telkom as they deal with one customer (the small operator) in the town. SLAs would dictate how issues would be dealt with as well as resolution timeframes and disputes.

 

[Tomtomtom]

@Bern: I'm struggling to see what point I have missed. I made a general contention about relative service levels across different areas. I don't disagree that Telkom's focus should shift out of ADSL retail and that LLU will bring improvement generally in the long term, but I think it's a mistake to assume that after LLU, improvement will happen everywhere and to the same degree, or even in the same direction. Some exchanges are apparently run at a loss today, and we can expect that in the short term after LLU these might even go backwards, as Telkom faces competitive pressure to focus on the high-margin exchanges.

The cost-saving of naked ADSL was an unrelated point but a much more immediate one, I think.

 

[Bern]

@Bern: I'm struggling to see what point I have missed. I made a general contention about relative service levels across different areas. I don't disagree that Telkom's focus should shift out of ADSL retail and that LLU will bring improvement generally in the long term, but I think it's a mistake to assume that after LLU, improvement will happen everywhere and to the same degree, or even in the same direction. Some exchanges are apparently run at a loss today, and we can expect that in the short term after LLU these might even go backwards, as Telkom faces competitive pressure to focus on the high-margin exchanges.

The cost-saving of naked ADSL was an unrelated point but a much more immediate one, I think.

That is the whole thing, if they are selling wholesale they are still getting good money in, why would they stop? The high end they are already losing out to direct fibre and so forth (busy stealing their customers in CT like this), so their real growth market would be the "loss" exchanges. If they spent there money on backhaul to all the exchanges instead of trying to compete badly others could front capital to get good equipment in to the exchanges and additional hardware and services.

IOW LLU will help focus Telkom capital on the core and backhaul while attracting external capital to equip exchanges mainly, but also last mile and backhaul to a smaller extent. Imagine you could fibre up a neighbourhood to the local exchange and get reasonable backhaul from there!

 

[blurrr88]

Urm, why can't I vote??

 

[MickeyD]

Urm, why can't I vote??

'cos the feedback date has passed and the MyBB submission has already been prepared by Ellipses Regulatory Solutions.

It is available for your perusal here: http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/366128-Consumers-voice-opinion-on-Local-Loop-Unbundling