Looking forward to Stage 8 load-shedding!?

Happy Sloth said:
I am converting what I can to DC... But I have invested in a 5.5KVA inverter that should be here next week. It is a 48Volt system but I decided against Lithium as I can't really justify the cost. So I will be going with 12V 100Ah Gel batteries as I found a supplier that sells them for about R2.3k each. That means in total a bank will cost R9.2k give or take. cheapest Lithium 48Volt I can get sits at 32k for that amount I can but a lot more batteries and also get to the 200Ah mark.

To all the Lithium people, if you can afford it more power to you seriously. Me I can't see the value. So the idea here is to just build a massive battery backup system and focus on the solar part of it later. Reason is I might still move and their is no point in setting up a system only to take it down again.
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I think that is fine, as long as you are aware of the lifespan of the batteries and give them lots of TLC. Consider the cycles. Consider the DoC. Also consider what impact it will have on the system if you mix old and new gel batteries as you add to it. Also consider what the chance of failure is maintaining so many gel batteries and the cost of keeping them balanced/equalised and monitoring each one of them. You going to add solar panels to help charge those batteries? You will need this early on as Eskom won't be able to charge them properly at these later stages and outages.

Nothing wrong with only getting what you can afford.

But do consider some further input and research on Power Forum for a more informed decision and system.
 
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I don't think we'll get Stage 8 load shedding until the redline has been moved to stage 10
 
Sinbad said:
You'll replace your lead batteries 5 times or more before someone with a lithium system notices the beginnings of a capacity drop.
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I understand the lithium push but it is all it is. It is the cool kid the new thing that makes people feel special. It is a battery, it can fail at any time for any reason, it can happen in warranty or out of warranty. Remember it is still a component that gets mass produced.

So what off it? Well the battery itself is good the electronics around it are still electronics and any form of electronic component can fail. It is why laptops fail, it is why TVs fail it is why maintenance is so important.

Will it last longer then a gel battery under load? Yes it will. Will it out last a gel battery when it comes to constant use? Yes and No... Have a look here: The Unique Challenges of Lithium-Ion Battery Safety

I feel for what they are they are overpriced. When the price goes down I will look into it again.

The biggest concern is they can have physical defects within only one cell and you can have major problems. Now as good as any internal protection is, it will fail. I am literally changing my regulator on my generator because it failed. So components will fail it is a question of when.

Gel batteries have similar problems but they are much less complicated to deal with. If i get 5 years out of them I am happy. I am not disillusioned I understand they will need replacing and I will not get a trillion years of use out of them. But that said given how a lithium-pack looks like and how it is configured, you have lot more opportunity for situations and it can become a big problem. Same is true for Gel batteries.

The biggest difference here is cost. Now you can crap on me all you want, if someone doesn't have R30k+ for a single battery they don't have it. If you cannot understand this basic model of not everyone is as wealthy as you are then that is your problem. Seriously you are so disconnected form the real world you can't even see the flaw in your argument. I don't need back-up power 3 years from now. I need it now. Right now I have the R10k to spend I don't have R30k+ to spend. If you cannot grasp this concept that is your problem.

I wanted to use more colorful language but I digress... If people cannot understand the basic principle of survival economics then that is their problem. But I love the ignore function it works so well
 
Happy Sloth said:
I understand the lithium push but it is all it is. It is the cool kid the new thing that makes people feel special. It is a battery, it can fail at any time for any reason, it can happen in warranty or out of warranty. Remember it is still a component that gets mass produced.

So what off it? Well the battery itself is good the electronics around it are still electronics and any form of electronic component can fail. It is why laptops fail, it is why TVs fail it is why maintenance is so important.

Will it last longer then a gel battery under load? Yes it will. Will it out last a gel battery when it comes to constant use? Yes and No... Have a look here: The Unique Challenges of Lithium-Ion Battery Safety

I feel for what they are they are overpriced. When the price goes down I will look into it again.

The biggest concern is they can have physical defects within only one cell and you can have major problems. Now as good as any internal protection is, it will fail. I am literally changing my regulator on my generator because it failed. So components will fail it is a question of when.

Gel batteries have similar problems but they are much less complicated to deal with. If i get 5 years out of them I am happy. I am not disillusioned I understand they will need replacing and I will not get a trillion years of use out of them. But that said given how a lithium-pack looks like and how it is configured, you have lot more opportunity for situations and it can become a big problem. Same is true for Gel batteries.

The biggest difference here is cost. Now you can crap on me all you want, if someone doesn't have R30k+ for a single battery they don't have it. If you cannot understand this basic model of not everyone is as wealthy as you are then that is your problem. Seriously you are so disconnected form the real world you can't even see the flaw in your argument. I don't need back-up power 3 years from now. I need it now. Right now I have the R10k to spend I don't have R30k+ to spend. If you cannot grasp this concept that is your problem.

I wanted to use more colorful language but I digress... If people cannot understand the basic principle of survival economics then that is their problem. But I love the ignore function it works so well
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Look if you can't afford lithium that's fine. You do what you have to do to survive, I get it. 100 percent agreed. If it works, it works.
Just don't try and kid yourself that your batteries are equivalent to lithium, that's all. (and worse, don't try to persuade others.)

It's not just batteries, this is a common thing. Check out the Vimes Boots theory of economic injustice.
 
AlphaJohn said:
Holy F!!! That thing pulls 33A

Boil 1 cup of water and half the battery is gone. :D
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This is the problem with 12V and 24V appliances. 33A is 33A, it doesn't matter at what voltage you're pulling it, you're going to need wires that can handle 33A. The higher the voltage, the less amps you need to power something, and the thinner the wires you need to deliver that current.
 
deweyzeph said:
This is the problem with 12V and 24V appliances. 33A is 33A, it doesn't matter at what voltage you're pulling it, you're going to need wires that can handle 33A. The higher the voltage, the less amps you need to power something, and the thinner the wires you need to deliver that current.
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Aware of the copper, the problem that a lot of people forget is that Lead Acid capacity drops the higher the draw:

eg:
1663654723498.png

ie: That microwave is gonna gobble up your power ;)

So only meant for trucks while the engine is running.
 
Sinbad said:
Look if you can't afford lithium that's fine. You do what you have to do to survive, I get it. 100 percent agreed. If it works, it works.
Just don't try and kid yourself that your batteries are equivalent to lithium, that's all. (and worse, don't try to persuade others.)

It's not just batteries, this is a common thing. Check out the Vimes Boots theory of economic injustice.
Click to expand...

This, we had a similar conversation in another thread, I even provided the life time per kWh cost break down of the LA's we had (R29.64/kWh) versus a conservative forecast of the LFP's we have now (R2.10/kWh at only 3000 cycles and max 80% DOD), but still LFP's are not 'worth' the cost. If you can't afford them, fine, that is one thing, but it doesn't make them not worth the cost.
 
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Neuk_ said:
This, we had a similar conversation in another thread, I even provided the life time per kWh cost break down of the LA's we had (R29.64/kWh) versus a conservative forecast of the LFP's we have now (R2.10/kWh at only 3000 cycles and max 20% DOC), but still LFP's are not 'worth' the cost. If you can't afford them, fine, that is one thing, but it doesn't make them not worth the cost.
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I don't remember him using the affordability reason back then (but fair enough), but rather that they blow up ticking time bomb forming crystals reason and doesn't trust them.

I would definitely add a balancer to the gels if having 4 in series, and never use equalisation settings on the inverter which would form bubbles in the gel and destroy the batteries.
 
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wingnut771 said:
I don't remember him using the affordability reason back then (but fair enough), but rather that they blow up ticking time bomb forming crystals reason and doesn't trust them.

I would definitely add a balancer to the gels if having 4 in series, and never use equalisation settings on the inverter.
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Yeah, we never had a balancer with our LA's, which may have contributed to their demise although checking their voltages when they were removed didn't show any major imbalance. I have suggested that my SIL get's a balancer for her small setup, her batteries that we replaced around 2 years ago I think are already showing signs of being on their way out and they are only used for load shedding or power outages.
 
@Happy Sloth

Anyone following his posts , tell me if this makes sense…

Gel batteries —— WiFi 5 repeaters
Lithium ion — WiFi 6(e)



“Drops mic“
 
Lupus said:
How many times did we have stage 4 through to 6 over that 7 years?
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There are a lot of factors at play.

The first is power draw, the second is a generator can charge a battery if it needs to. There are ways to do it without destroying the charger. See even without load-shedding our area gets hit by cable theft, load-reduction and random fires that would essentially take out power for days at a time. Once we had no power for almost two weeks.

The point I am making is the wonderfully informed lithium community don't get it. Most people run truck batteries car batteries and whatever they can find and repair. When I changed from truck batteries to Gel batteries it work so incredibly well that I never looked back. Hell I didn't even know Gel batteries was a thing till my Sister took me to town and showed them to me.

This was a long time ago now. Point is if you have good power, then good for you. If you live in a nice area where they don't harvest the transformer and power lines regularly then you are lucky. If you live in an area that we live in, we see cable theft all the time, our transformer gets vandalized all the time. Specially during thunder storms because the neighborhood watch is less lightly to be out and about during those times.

We are human, why not let us live?
 
Happy Sloth said:
I understand the lithium push but it is all it is. It is the cool kid the new thing that makes people feel special. It is a battery, it can fail at any time for any reason, it can happen in warranty or out of warranty. Remember it is still a component that gets mass produced.

So what off it? Well the battery itself is good the electronics around it are still electronics and any form of electronic component can fail. It is why laptops fail, it is why TVs fail it is why maintenance is so important.

Will it last longer then a gel battery under load? Yes it will. Will it out last a gel battery when it comes to constant use? Yes and No... Have a look here: The Unique Challenges of Lithium-Ion Battery Safety

I feel for what they are they are overpriced. When the price goes down I will look into it again.

The biggest concern is they can have physical defects within only one cell and you can have major problems. Now as good as any internal protection is, it will fail. I am literally changing my regulator on my generator because it failed. So components will fail it is a question of when.

Gel batteries have similar problems but they are much less complicated to deal with. If i get 5 years out of them I am happy. I am not disillusioned I understand they will need replacing and I will not get a trillion years of use out of them. But that said given how a lithium-pack looks like and how it is configured, you have lot more opportunity for situations and it can become a big problem. Same is true for Gel batteries.

The biggest difference here is cost. Now you can crap on me all you want, if someone doesn't have R30k+ for a single battery they don't have it. If you cannot understand this basic model of not everyone is as wealthy as you are then that is your problem. Seriously you are so disconnected form the real world you can't even see the flaw in your argument. I don't need back-up power 3 years from now. I need it now. Right now I have the R10k to spend I don't have R30k+ to spend. If you cannot grasp this concept that is your problem.

I wanted to use more colorful language but I digress... If people cannot understand the basic principle of survival economics then that is their problem. But I love the ignore function it works so well
Click to expand...
gel batteries suck .not what they used to be .if you dont want li ion why not flooded deep cycle marine batteries .a good battery burper to pulse charge it and desulphate it every month .50 litres of demineralised water should last the lifespan of the battery 5 years maybe .3 years probably .but gell noooooo .
 
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