Looking to jump platform.

[10:10]

I've used DOS, Windows, Linux and OSX. I started with DOS like everyone born in the 1980s. Then Windows. Then used Linux in my first job (server still run Linux so day to day I use Linux a lot, just not desktop). Then 2 jobs later I was given a Mac and Linux desktop. Didn't use the Mac for a solid year, at all (Linux desktop). Then I was like, ok let me see what the fuss is about.

So while I used Linux, I still used Windows at home. Once I switched to Mac I stopped using Windows at home (still have the machines around but they aren't turned on anymore).

There will be plenty of people on here with an ax to grind, but as a software engineer, I'd say your best experience overall will be on a Macbook.
Arm Macbooks run just fine for all the popular IDEs.
My day job is mixed langauge, I switch between C/C++/Java/Python/Ruby/JS (npm). Haven't had any issues with any of them (except maybe when using really old versions of ruby like 1.9.3 which required a bit more effort to compile on my ARM Mac).

Some of the upsides for me with using Mac as my developer machines is that the terminal (ssh) is more like the servers I need to code for (POSIX in other words).
gcc is also very friendly to use on OSX.
The days where I need to reboot my laptop are long gone and I've stopped using a mouse ever since I started to use the macbook track pad (omg the difference between a Windows track pad and mac is like smartphone vs nokia huge).

So yeah I didn't stop using Windows because I hated it, I just drifted away from using it and I honestly don't ever see myself going back.
There are just too many pluses with Mac.

I still use an Android phone, so I don't really drink Apple coolaid.
IMO they just make a superior personal computer.
For products like TV and smart phone I much prefer other products because I feel the experience on those products are superior to Apple.

Thank you.

I ordered my Mac mini M2 today. I made this choice earlier this morning when I tried to revive this thread but realized it is not going to happen.

I am glad to read this. I know there is a lot to Macs that I must learn but in the end, my desktop computer and other laptops can't be replaced as I need the software to work. But as something I can use that is stronger than a laptop and consumes less power to the point that I can run it all day. That is a plus for me.

Knowing it will be a good tool for the job. Just gave me ease of mind. Thank you for that.

 

[Moosedrool]

You belong to Apple now.

 

[Gnome]

Thank you.

I ordered my Mac mini M2 today. I made this choice earlier this morning when I tried to revive this thread but realized it is not going to happen.

I am glad to read this. I know there is a lot to Macs that I must learn but in the end, my desktop computer and other laptops can't be replaced as I need the software to work. But as something I can use that is stronger than a laptop and consumes less power to the point that I can run it all day. That is a plus for me.

Knowing it will be a good tool for the job. Just gave me ease of mind. Thank you for that.

The real problem with threads like this is that people get attached to a choice they made and they haven't worked for hours on each and every platform (so uninformed opinion).
I approach OS choice as a choice of tool these days and for the desktop experience I consider OSX to be the best choice in the general case.
There are more specific cases that you allude to where other operating systems have a superior advantage.
Gaming and automative tools are distinctly in the Windows camp in my opinion.
Linux owns server these days.

Software engineering is often much closer to the bleeding edge and as such OSX tool chains are very mature.
Companies like Amazon.com don't even use anything but Mac for their software developers (ie. when you work there you get a Mac, done).
Plenty of other companies like that also.

And it has nothing to do with cool-aid.
It is purely down to the number of support issues combined with the tool chains.
The hardware is more expensive but overall cheaper due to the lower cost of ongoing support and life of their hardware.

 

[SauRoNZA]

I've used DOS, Windows, Linux and OSX. I started with DOS like everyone born in the 1980s. Then Windows. Then used Linux in my first job (server still run Linux so day to day I use Linux a lot, just not desktop). Then 2 jobs later I was given a Mac and Linux desktop. Didn't use the Mac for a solid year, at all (Linux desktop). Then I was like, ok let me see what the fuss is about.

So while I used Linux, I still used Windows at home. Once I switched to Mac I stopped using Windows at home (still have the machines around but they aren't turned on anymore).

There will be plenty of people on here with an ax to grind, but as a software engineer, I'd say your best experience overall will be on a Macbook.
Arm Macbooks run just fine for all the popular IDEs.
My day job is mixed langauge, I switch between C/C++/Java/Python/Ruby/JS (npm). Haven't had any issues with any of them (except maybe when using really old versions of ruby like 1.9.3 which required a bit more effort to compile on my ARM Mac).

Some of the upsides for me with using Mac as my developer machines is that the terminal (ssh) is more like the servers I need to code for (POSIX in other words).
gcc is also very friendly to use on OSX.
The days where I need to reboot my laptop are long gone and I've stopped using a mouse ever since I started to use the macbook track pad (omg the difference between a Windows track pad and mac is like smartphone vs nokia huge).

So yeah I didn't stop using Windows because I hated it, I just drifted away from using it and I honestly don't ever see myself going back.
There are just too many pluses with Mac.

I still use an Android phone, so I don't really drink Apple coolaid.
IMO they just make a superior personal computer.
For products like TV and smart phone I much prefer other products because I feel the experience on those products are superior to Apple.

Pretty much comes down to MacOS is the best version of *nix for Desktop use and that’s why it’s such a winner if you are already a Linux guy and left Windows behind.

Bizarrely Linux on Desktop just still hasn’t happened, year on year I’m hopeful and try it again and every single time I’d rather go back to Windows if I couldn’t do MacOS.

 

[10:10]

Pretty much comes down to MacOS is the best version of *nix for Desktop use and that’s why it’s such a winner if you are already a Linux guy and left Windows behind.

Bizarrely Linux on Desktop just still hasn’t happened, year on year I’m hopeful and try it again and every single time I’d rather go back to Windows if I couldn’t do MacOS.

The Biggest problem for me was driver support on Ubuntu. No matter what I did my GPU refused to work properly with the official driver. I am not sure if it is fixed now but getting 3 screens to work on Linux was a pain due to the driver not giving any options at the time. That said that it has been a while. I haven't really kept myself in the linux loop

 

[SauRoNZA]

The Biggest problem for me was driver support on Ubuntu. No matter what I did my GPU refused to work properly with the official driver. I am not sure if it is fixed now but getting 3 screens to work on Linux was a pain due to the driver not giving any options at the time. That said that it has been a while. I haven't really kept myself in the linux loop

That’s the thing, there is always one dealbreaker or compromise you need to live with.

 

[Gnome]

The Biggest problem for me was driver support on Ubuntu. No matter what I did my GPU refused to work properly with the official driver

 

[Gnome]

Pretty much comes down to MacOS is the best version of *nix for Desktop use and that’s why it’s such a winner if you are already a Linux guy and left Windows behind.

I'm not really a Linux guy. I mean for servers it is just light years ahead of Windows, but that is beside the point I'm trying to make.

I was perfectly happy on Windows until I used OSX.
Initially as a developer it was better in a lot of ways.

But at this point it is just better in all the ways for me.

My OS doesn't slow down over time and then requires that I format or whatever.
The hardware is just SO much better than Windows computers (ie. track pad, battery life, screen)
I don't bother to reboot my laptop anymore, I often go months without doing so and after a reboot nothing changes, so it isn't like Windows where it felt all fresh again after a reboot.

Especially the formatting thing is an enormous quality of life thing.
I used to do that every few months just because Windows would get f#ck3d after some time and there is no way around it.

I never got viruses so that wasn't a factor for me, but yeah it is nice to not have to worry about anti-virus software bs either. (but again not a huge factor for me).

 

[10:10]

That’s the thing, there is always one dealbreaker or compromise you need to live with.

Yea, that sounds about right. Nvidia is essentially Apple 2.0 at this point. Apple made their own stuff expensive sure. But Nvidia made the entire computer market so expensive that we are considering Apple as a cheaper alternative. Essentially Apple is becoming the good guy for the most part. How did we even get here? It is actually really sad but I now understand why Steam pushed for the Steam deck. They know NVidia is essentially killing off their customers.

 

[Gnome]

Yea, that sounds about right. Nvidia is essentially Apple 2.0 at this point. Apple made their own stuff expensive sure. But Nvidia made the entire computer market so expensive that we are considering Apple as a cheaper alternative. Essentially Apple is becoming the good guy for the most part. How did we even get here? It is actually really sad but I now understand why Steam pushed for the Steam deck. They know NVidia is essentially killing off their customers.

I'm not particularly attached to any company.

Apple has some super sh#tty things they do around consumer right to repair.
John Deere is the worst of these right to repair companies. They sued a bunch of farmers in the US for repairing their own tractors basically claiming that you cannot do that yourself, introduced like monthly fees for using a tractor you bought etc.
Both these companies are big drivers on that front; they are losing the battle to some extent, but they really are pushing and lobbying to prevent you from repairing and disassembling your own hardware.

I just like the Apple laptops or "PC"/computer OS experience (don't care for iPhone experience but I'm biased because I started on Android I guess)

In my opinion, It's best not to have loyalties on these things and just assume companies are out to make a profit and you should reward them with your money for a specific product because that product is good. So product by product basis, nothing more, nothing less. Anything more and you become like some of the fan boys in this thread that get angry when you don't like their particular brand. And eventually when that brand lets you down, it'll be a hit on your self esteem/ego because you invested so much trust, love, energy, ... into it.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Yea, that sounds about right. Nvidia is essentially Apple 2.0 at this point. Apple made their own stuff expensive sure. But Nvidia made the entire computer market so expensive that we are considering Apple as a cheaper alternative. Essentially Apple is becoming the good guy for the most part. How did we even get here? It is actually really sad but I now understand why Steam pushed for the Steam deck. They know NVidia is essentially killing off their customers.

Apple has never been expensive.

They just aren’t cheap.

Same way Lamborghini doesn’t have a Polo in their range, they leave that up to VW because they don’t want that customer.

 

[RedViking]

 

[_kabal_]

How I use my PC is a browser, a terminal, and all the Jetbrains, with a single large monitor.

for me, as a developer, Linux is the superior experience. That’s how it feels to me.
I also get to work on a 16core/32thread 5950X beast, which I extremely pleasant
I also prefer native docker, it’s objectively superior to VM docker.

I probably work with a 74/25/1 split (Linux, windows (dual boot), macOS)

 

[Herr der Verboten]

After various virus attacks that may or may not be legitimate as false positives is a reality for all of us that our computers are an important part of our lives and for some of us our livelihood.

I am looking to jump ship to Apple. I know nothing of the platform the OS and its abilities. I only know what YouTube is willing to publish and that is not much when it comes to real functionality for someone like myself that is a total and complete noob with Apple.

I know there is an apple tax but I don't know if it is once-off or monthly.

Tools I work with:
Android Studio,
Unreal 5
Unity
blender
Visual studio.

These tools are connected to my primary income as I do projects for private clients. Can I work with all of these pieces of software on a Mac?

Edit. [insert wall of text here:]

I see I am being accused of a lot of things. So I added the following:

Despite the many allegations I do not download or use pirated software. You can't build a business on it nor is it reliable or stable. But I see this goes into the echo chamber as fact sadly. I cannot change your mind on this because people here love drama and make unfounded accusations all the time.

I use legitimate streaming services that I pay for. I use legitimate software that I paid for. I earn good money with the things I do that are not coding-related. I don't know what else to say. I really don't.

The truth is sometimes something sneaks in. It can be from a friend or a family member and even if I scan the thumb drive it is not 100% safe. There can be a virus on it that the antivirus does not know about yet. As good as they are they are not perfect. Just please keep this in mind moving forward.

As for the accusation of procrastination. I am reliable only on myself. I cannot afford to procrastinate and work 20 hours a day easily every day. This includes my actual income as I have a fair amount of equipment that I generate income with. I still have to create the products and deliver them. I only work locally because the products are fragile and cannot be shipped. Thanks to my technical know-how, few can compete. But as stuff gets cheaper and easier to use it is important to diversify my skills so that I can continue to live.

I am not asking for the sun and the moon. All I wanted to know was what the apple tax is. So that I can make a sound decision. Now many of you said "Never ask for advice on a Forum" Yet even Reddit in its current sad state does have many good people that try to answer honestly and provide as much detail as possible. The problem is South Africa has many factors many Reddit users can't account for. Simply put they don't live here. We do, so we can be cool about it and help each other out or this continues and the value of the forum diminishes alongside the quality of the members it attracts.

/enters teh rabbit hole(s)

 

[ToxicBunny]

Yea, that sounds about right. Nvidia is essentially Apple 2.0 at this point. Apple made their own stuff expensive sure. But Nvidia made the entire computer market so expensive that we are considering Apple as a cheaper alternative. Essentially Apple is becoming the good guy for the most part. How did we even get here? It is actually really sad but I now understand why Steam pushed for the Steam deck. They know NVidia is essentially killing off their customers.

No, Nvidia didn't make the entire computer market expensive.

NVidia have been doing some stupid shyte with GPUs without a doubt, and currently the pricing is off the charts stupid... but that doesn't make the entire computer market expesnive. And no, Apple is not a cheaper alternative, they are merely an alternative.

You've made the choice to go to Mac, and I honestly hope it works out for you, but you still have an absolute fsckton to learn about the market and how it works.

 

[rambo919]

Pretty much comes down to MacOS is the best version of *nix for Desktop use and that’s why it’s such a winner if you are already a Linux guy and left Windows behind.

Bizarrely Linux on Desktop just still hasn’t happened, year on year I’m hopeful and try it again and every single time I’d rather go back to Windows if I couldn’t do MacOS.

It's simple..... almost no one in Linux dev REALLY want's it to go mainstream for a slew of reasons including elitism.

There is a lot of work still to be done to really compete with even the current f-d up windows GUI experience. Exceptions like MX Linux exist but they are very under-supported compared to Mint and Ubuntu.... and the Linux companies only focus on servers.

Valve probably is a trojan horse that will do a Google at some point.

There are just too many crazy cooks in the kitchen running after their extremist ideologies and too few generals willing to hurt feelings around the obsessions of the cooks.... and almost everyone is going woke just to get the mob off of their cases or actually going crazy woke the way Debian is doing.

It's a case of the corporations being happy because Linux cannot get it's s-t together and properly compete because it's too busy fighting itself and masturbating in public.

 

[Gnome]

It's simple..... almost no one in Linux dev REALLY want's it to go mainstream for a slew of reasons including elitism.

Linux is the most widely used operating system in the world.
Android and the majority of servers in the world run Linux.
Even when people think they aren't running Linux, they probably are (cars, cloud providers, IoT, airplanes, GPS, smart watches, I could go on)
It is definitely mainstream.

But what do mean, where do you see people actively working against Linux?

 

[backstreetboy]

No, Nvidia didn't make the entire computer market expensive.

NVidia have been doing some stupid shyte with GPUs without a doubt, and currently the pricing is off the charts stupid... but that doesn't make the entire computer market expesnive. And no, Apple is not a cheaper alternative, they are merely an alternative.

You've made the choice to go to Mac, and I honestly hope it works out for you, but you still have an absolute fsckton to learn about the market and how it works.

Bollocks when you price them out vs the competition you'll find they are usually cheaper.

 

[rambo919]

But what do mean, where do you see people actively working against Linux?

The attitude is one of "no girls allowed in the treehouse.... they might just hang curtains or something.... evil evil girls".

There is much resistance to the most obvious improvements like not being completely reliant on the terminal and text file settings editing.

There is an odd contempt for anyone "needing" new features as if these are trinkets or something where you are scolded for not using 2 year last updated software if you want something that does not crash your system. The odd dichotomy of "living on the bleeding danger edge" vs "ancient and almost obsolete".... even when (and speaking of Debian/Ubuntu specifically) the "stable" packages are buggy beyond belief and actually HAS been fixed in later versions that take years to make it to the repo's. There really is this odd worship of the repo's.

Stupid example.... Debian 11 running an obsolete LTS of KDE even though the new LTS has been released quite a while ago..... it's not even the current frigging LTS FFS. They literally just ignored it until DB12 came out and skipped a few LTS versions.... and for 2 or so years it will probably stay there no matter what happens with KDE 6. And this while the version they did use.... was plagued by already fixed bugs that everyone was annoyed with.

Connected to this the demand that everyone stop using PPA's (because it's so strange that people actually need up to date software) which has almost been fixed by flatpaks which introduced isolation problems nvm the absolutely HUGE size of some of these installs because no one has yet figured out a way to shrink the dependencies.

Then there is the actual argument that "if more people use Linux then more malware will be targeted at it and we cant let that happen" coupled with "Linux is more secure and does not need or want security suites the way windows does".... with lots of other kinds of cognitive dissonance.

etc, it's not that they are directly working against Desktop Linux.... it's that they want to ensure the "idiot normies" don't get in and ruin their fun..... they just don't want to admit it so outright. If the year of the Linux Desktop actually happens these people would basically throw the ball over the fence and storm off to Arch or something. They want to keep it niche to keep their faux sense of superiority over the "peasent Windows users".

You find this everywhere but much less in normie orientated distro communities.

 

[Gnome]

The attitude is one of "no girls allowed in the treehouse.... they might just hang curtains or something.... evil evil girls".

There is much resistance to the most obvious improvements like not being completely reliant on the terminal and text file settings editing.

There is an odd contempt for anyone "needing" new features as if these are trinkets or something where you are scolded for not using 2 year last updated software if you want something that does not crash your system. The odd dichotomy of "living on the bleeding danger edge" vs "ancient and almost obsolete".... even when (and speaking of Debian/Ubuntu specifically) the "stable" packages are buggy beyond belief and actually HAS been fixed in later versions that take years to make it to the repo's. There really is this odd worship of the repo's.

Stupid example.... Debian 11 running an obsolete LTS of KDE even though the new LTS has been released quite a while ago..... it's not even the current frigging LTS FFS. They literally just ignored it until DB12 came out and skipped a few LTS versions.... and for 2 or so years it will probably stay there no matter what happens with KDE 6. And this while the version they did use.... was plagued by already fixed bugs that everyone was annoyed with.

Connected to this the demand that everyone stop using PPA's (because it's so strange that people actually need up to date software) which has almost been fixed by flatpaks which introduced isolation problems nvm the absolutely HUGE size of some of these installs because no one has yet figured out a way to shrink the dependencies.

Then there is the actual argument that "if more people use Linux then more malware will be targeted at it and we cant let that happen" coupled with "Linux is more secure and does not need or want security suites the way windows does".... with lots of other kinds of cognitive dissonance.

etc, it's not that they are directly working against Desktop Linux.... it's that they want to ensure the "idiot normies" don't get in and ruin their fun..... they just don't want to admit it so outright. If the year of the Linux Desktop actually happens these people would basically throw the ball over the fence and storm off to Arch or something. They want to keep it niche to keep their faux sense of superiority over the "peasent Windows users".

You find this everywhere but much less in normie orientated distro communities.

Distros and the kernel are quite different groups.
Most distros are not driven by enterprises and when they are, it is usually for the server market, hence the text file insistence (good thing in those environments).

With OSX having such a strong POSIX offering, I don't really see Linux making inroads in the personal computer space (ie. consumer laptops and desktops)
The personal computer market is already shrinking (due to smart phones) and there are massively small margins.
At this point I think they've missed their heyday

The Linux personal computer distros "market", IMO, is dying a slow death.
I think that is what you meant above when you said "going mainstream"?

The kernel is definitely far beyond just mainstream tho, it is a staple of more than half the consumer electronics we buy today.