M-Web SMTP

[ITCynic]

Client of mine has been complaining of e-mail sending issues over the past few days.
They are finding e-mails not reaching recipients or recipients receiving the same e-mail multiple times. Also extremely slow in sending of e-mails.

Their POP server is hosted elsewhere and has no issues.

Their ISP is M-Web.

I did a traceroute of the M-Web SMTP Server (smtp.mweb.co.za) and it resolves to smtp.saix.net !

Here is the trace :-

Hop IP Address Host Name Response Time
=== ========== ========= =============
1
2
3
4 196.43.11.30 wblv-ip-essr-1-atm-2-0-0-2.telkom-ipnet.co.za 22 ms
5 196.43.2.142 smtp.saix.net 22 ms
Trace complete

Can anybody tell me WTF is going on ?

Is M-Web trying to save bandwidth iro of their uncapped offerings by pushing their SMTP mail through SAIX ?

 

[MWEB]

Client of mine has been complaining of e-mail sending issues over the past few days.
They are finding e-mails not reaching recipients or recipients receiving the same e-mail multiple times. Also extremely slow in sending of e-mails.

Their POP server is hosted elsewhere and has no issues.

Their ISP is M-Web.

I did a traceroute of the M-Web SMTP Server (smtp.mweb.co.za) and it resolves to smtp.saix.net !

Is M-Web trying to save bandwidth iro of their uncapped offerings by pushing their SMTP mail through SAIX ?

Hi ITCynic,

I suspect the incorrect DNS servers are being used to resolve the name. If you are on the MWEB network, smtp.mweb.co.za should resolve to 196.28.80.20.

The correct DNS servers are 196.28.80.140 & 196.28.80.139, however we recommend your router auto learns these from the connection (& your hosts use the router as a DNS forwarder/server) since they may change in the future.

MWB.

 

[who.is.michael]

There is definitely an issue with MWEB's email servers; (past 3 months) as many clients do not receive emails from international locations or from some IS servers. The first thing I advise my clients to do when they are using MWEB as an ISP is - to obtain their own domain - as relying on a local ISP for email communication is rather unwise, as it is highly unreliable and expensive.

See: http://www.host4africa.com/ starting at R 10.00 per month or http://www.gridhost.co.za/web_hosting.php starting at R 9.00.00 per month - this option is far more reliable and cost effective than any local ISP's email / domain offering.

You therefore have no more email connectivity issues as your are managing the domain yourself and you have a website included for a fraction of the cost that the ISP charges you for an email address.

Now you must just hope your ISP can provide reliable connectivity.

Good luck

Michael

 

[ITCynic]

Hi ITCynic,

I suspect the incorrect DNS servers are being used to resolve the name. If you are on the MWEB network, smtp.mweb.co.za should resolve to 196.28.80.20.

The correct DNS servers are 196.28.80.140 & 196.28.80.139, however we recommend your router auto learns these from the connection (& your hosts use the router as a DNS forwarder/server) since they may change in the future.

MWB.

Thanks for the reply, not sure why DNS should have anything to do with it though.

If I tracert my own SMTP server I get the correct routing info to my hosting provider. All the domains I host & manage route correctly only M-Web doesnt.Why should this be different for M-Web?

I am on Telkom (SAIX) with my router to automatically get DNS from the ISP (same as what you suggested).

Did a tracert from http://just-traceroute.com to smtp.mweb.co.za just to remove MY DNS configuration and ISP connection from the equation and this is what I get :-

These are the results

From the Netherlands
1 81.93.58.25 2.808 ms
2 br2.1-2.dc2.ams.denit.net (94.126.64.18) 8.440 ms
3 denit.nikhef.openpeering.nl (217.170.10.97) 0.804 ms
4 k705.pni-openpeering.ams1.nl.above.net (82.98.253.169) 6.916 ms
5 ge-0-2-0.mpr1.ams1.nl.above.net (64.125.28.93) 0.965 ms
6 *
7 213-161-92-182.available.lhr.above.net (213.161.92.182) 7.913 ms
8 rndf-ip-hsll-1-gig-6-0-8.telkom-ipnet.co.za (196.43.51.174) 195.266 ms
9 mweb-gw.telkom-ipnet.co.za (196.25.110.74) 222.130 ms
10 vl-12.vic-hscore-2.mweb.co.za (196.22.169.243) 214.110 ms
11 tengig-3-2.vic-core-sw2.mweb.co.za (196.22.169.70) 220.675 ms
12 *
13 *
14 *
15 *
16 *
17 *
18 *
19 *
20 *

From France
* France:
1 217.70.191.253 0.482 ms
2 vl2.core3-d.gandi.net (217.70.176.131) 0.285 ms
3 mr1-lon1-gw1.pxmrp.net (195.66.225.113) 8.684 ms
4 46-254-167-89.packetexchange.net (89.167.254.46) 8.853 ms
5 rndf-ip-hsll-1-gig-6-0-7.telkom-ipnet.co.za (196.43.51.218) 282.022 ms
6 mweb-gw.telkom-ipnet.co.za (196.25.110.74) 238.766 ms
7 vl-11.vic-hscore-1.mweb.co.za (196.22.169.227) 239.420 ms
8 tengig-3-1.vic-core-sw1.mweb.co.za (196.22.169.66) 249.398 ms
9 *
10 *
11 *
12 *
13 *
14 *
15 *
16 *
17 *
18 *
19 *
20 *

From Japan
* Japan:
1 203.83.240.72 12.462 ms
2 210.138.180.67 0.442 ms
3 210.138.9.253 3.706 ms
4 tky009ipgw10.IIJ.Net (58.138.112.97) 3.756 ms
5 tky009bb10.IIJ.Net (58.138.112.145) 3.702 ms
6 tky001bf01.IIJ.Net (58.138.80.173) 4.371 ms
7 sjc002bb01.IIJ.Net (216.98.96.97) 98.466 ms
8 sjc002ix02.IIJ.net (216.98.96.94) 98.595 ms
9 216.98.120.34 98.600 ms
10 te2-4-10G.ar2.DCA3.gblx.net (67.16.139.65) 169.473 ms
11 Telkom-SA-Limited.so-3-0-1.ar1.DCA3.gblx.net (208.49.224.162) 178.590 ms
12 196.43.51.2 315.584 ms
13 mweb-gw.telkom-ipnet.co.za (196.25.110.74) 446.177 ms
14 vl-12.vic-hscore-2.mweb.co.za (196.22.169.243) 447.774 ms
15 tengig-3-2.vic-core-sw2.mweb.co.za (196.22.169.70) 448.149 ms
16 *
17 *
18 *
19 *
20 *

From Singapore
* Singapore:
1 203.142.24.254 0.618 ms
2 202.157.128.61 0.524 ms
3 203.116.9.193 0.766 ms
4 203.118.3.226 4.482 ms
5 so-7-0-1.edge6.SanJose1.Level3.net (4.53.22.1) 232.916 ms
6 vlan69.csw1.SanJose1.Level3.net (4.68.18.62) 243.485 ms
7 ae-64-64.ebr4.SanJose1.Level3.net (4.69.134.241) 243.377 ms
8 ae-2-2.ebr4.NewYork1.Level3.net (4.69.135.186) 315.091 ms
9 ae-94-94.csw4.NewYork1.Level3.net (4.69.134.126) 308.077 ms
10 ae-42-99.car2.NewYork1.Level3.net (4.68.16.196) 302.720 ms
11 TELKOM-SA-L.car2.NewYork1.Level3.net (4.53.84.2) 278.761 ms
12 rndf-ip-hsll-1-gig-1-0-8.telkom-ipnet.co.za (196.43.51.66) 361.390 ms
13 mweb-gw.telkom-ipnet.co.za (196.25.110.74) 520.357 ms
14 vl-12.vic-hscore-2.mweb.co.za (196.22.169.243) 488.221 ms
15 *
16 *
17 *
18 *
19 *
20 *

Your interpretation of these traceroutes would be most welcome. Is/has there been SMTP issues at M-Web this week ? (You can PM me that if you don't want to publicly disclose)

 

[ITCynic]

There is definitely an issue with MWEB's email servers; (past 3 months) as many clients do not receive emails from international locations or from some IS servers. The first thing I advise my clients to do when they are using MWEB as an ISP is - to obtain their own domain - as relying on a local ISP for email communication is rather unwise, as it is highly unreliable and expensive.

Thanks Michael, I already host this clients e-mail (POP) from my servers in the United States and rarely have issues. Been hosting with them for a few years now without incidents.

The client wants his SMTP routed locally because he feels if "international goes down I still want to be able to send e-mail"

I no longer go against clients wishes anymore, if they choose to reject my advice, I do what they pay me for. (I'm a cynic )

 

[who.is.michael]

Thanks Michael, I already host this clients e-mail (POP) from my servers in the United States and rarely have issues. Been hosting with them for a few years now without incidents.

The client wants his SMTP routed locally because he feels if "international goes down I still want to be able to send e-mail"

I no longer go against clients wishes anymore, if they choose to reject my advice, I do what they pay me for. (I'm a cynic )

LOL, understood... (I'm plainly inform them they will have issues and I'm not prepared to use substandard suppliers.)

 

[MWEB]

I am on Telkom (SAIX) with my router to automatically get DNS from the ISP (same as what you suggested).

Hi ITCynic,

The reason why you are resolving smtp.mweb.co.za to the ip of smtp.saix.net is because your are on SAIX's network using their DNS servers. SAIX's DNS servers resolve in this manner to allow (historical) MWEB customers on the SAIX network to send outbound mail directly via SAIX's relay servers.

This however should have no bearing on sending email to MWEB itself. For this your outbound relay server would resolve the mx record for mweb.co.za (mx-mweb.smp.mweb.co.za = 196.28.76.20) to which the mail will be sent.

Your interpretation of these traceroutes would be most welcome. Is/has there been SMTP issues at M-Web this week ?

The traceroutes posted are all correct and as far as I'm aware we are not having any issues with our mail infrastructure.

MWB.

 

[ITCynic]

Hi ITCynic,

The reason why you are resolving smtp.mweb.co.za to the ip of smtp.saix.net is because your are on SAIX's network using their DNS servers. SAIX's DNS servers resolve in this manner to allow (historical) MWEB customers on the SAIX network to send outbound mail directly via SAIX's relay servers.

MWB.

Thanks for that explanation, makes plenty sense to me now. Much appreciated

 

[Gordon_R]

Hi ITCynic,

The reason why you are resolving smtp.mweb.co.za to the ip of smtp.saix.net is because your are on SAIX's network using their DNS servers. SAIX's DNS servers resolve in this manner to allow (historical) MWEB customers on the SAIX network to send outbound mail directly via SAIX's relay servers.

This however should have no bearing on sending email to MWEB itself. For this your outbound relay server would resolve the mx record for mweb.co.za (mx-mweb.smp.mweb.co.za = 196.28.76.20) to which the mail will be sent.

The traceroutes posted are all correct and as far as I'm aware we are not having any issues with our mail infrastructure.

MWB.

Thanks for that explanation, makes plenty sense to me now. Much appreciated

MWB is perfectly correct in his explanation (so far as it goes). One other historical factor is that for performance reasons it was faster for MWeb customers to use the SAIX DNS servers.

Now that MWeb has its own network, those users who previously used the SAIX DNS servers MUST switch to the MWeb DNS servers, or suffer the (unintended) consequences of failed e-mail and newsgroup routing.

In my case this was simply done by rebooting my ADSL modem, and the new DNS then took over. If users have hard coded the DNS IP adresses, they will have to undo this manually.

In either case the migration process has not been clearly communicated to existing MWeb users. The majority will have no problems, but a small minority will have persistent (inexplicable) hassles such as this.

 

[Edinetz]

I don't know how they are doing the migration but my All-Inclusive Capped account was transferred last month before the uncapped was launched. I realised when I couldn't connect to news.saix.co.za or news.mweb.co.za which resolved to the same addresss i.e. the SAIX news server. A quick traceroute showed me MWEB was on their own network. MWEB support was only able to help me when I informed them I was on their new network and they gave an IS IP for the new MWEB news server which has subsequently changed. On querying this month why my CAP is not 2GB (up from 1) I was informed that my account has not been migrated and I must wait until the 15th. So MWEB has put me on the their network but it would appear that I still get SAIX DNS.

 

[Gordon_R]

I don't know how they are doing the migration but my All-Inclusive Capped account was transferred last month before the uncapped was launched. I realised when I couldn't connect to news.saix.co.za or news.mweb.co.za which resolved to the same addresss i.e. the SAIX news server. A quick traceroute showed me MWEB was on their own network. MWEB support was only able to help me when I informed them I was on their new network and they gave an IS IP for the new MWEB news server which has subsequently changed. On querying this month why my CAP is not 2GB (up from 1) I was informed that my account has not been migrated and I must wait until the 15th. So MWEB has put me on the their network but it would appear that I still get SAIX DNS.

The package that you are subscribed to, and the physical network that you are on, are two different things, and are seemingly being migrated at different stages.

It's easy to see which physical network you are on by looking at your IP address (in your ADSL modem, or when you run tracert). MWeb is using 41.132.XX.XX, while SAIX uses 41.245.XX.XX.

Finding which DNS you are using requires a little more poking around (the same principle applies, but the addresses are different). Rebooting your ADSL modem is always a first step if something isn't working, which will start using the new DNS (assuming it hasn't been manually selected).

 

[TonyA]

If I rack my memory somewhere along the the line, MWEB requested users to change outgoing mail to relay.mweb.co.za. This is what I have entered as opposed to smtp.mweb.co.za and it appears to work just fine!

 

[Gordon_R]

If I rack my memory somewhere along the the line, MWEB requested users to change outgoing mail to relay.mweb.co.za. This is what I have entered as opposed to smtp.mweb.co.za and it appears to work just fine!

relay.mweb.co.za maps onto a different IP address, which belongs to cpt-relay.mweb.co.za This does work, but I would not necessarily recommend it!

There are a several old servers (and aliases) including iafrica.com (which I use). With the new network, some routes take an extra few hops (several are based in Cape Town), whereas they were originally closer to users in CT.

Edit: These extra hops go from MWeb via SAIX (Telkom) to get to Cape Town, which is kinda bizarre!?

I can't really say whether this is good or bad (its just a legacy of a complex network and multiple points-of-prescence). These servers could be discontinued in future (although the addresses will likely be re-routed).