Mac vs PC

[Paul_S]

The price on that 20" iMac is R14 673. But I do agree with your general argument.

Yes for the one with only 1GB of RAM which is pitiful if you're working with big images in Photoshop.
I added an extra 1GB in case you didn't notice.
Upgrading the iMac RAM from 1GB to 2GB costs an additional R4676.00

 

[hj2k_x]

Yes for the one with only 1GB of RAM which is pitiful if you're working with big images in Photoshop.
I added an extra 1GB in case you didn't notice.
Upgrading the iMac RAM from 1GB to 2GB costs an additional R4676.00

Sorry man, I did not notice.

R4676!? I would love to hear Maccies justify that one....

 

[supersunbird]

If software is added it would all balance out I think...

 

[bwana]

RAM is RAM - esp on the iMac. Unless of course you've never heard of third party ram? :confused?

I bought 2gb for r850.

 

[hj2k_x]

If software is added it would all balance out I think...

Man I hate the fact that people still have to pay for software.

 

[icyrus]

Sure if you compare the entry level Mac vs a PC using an expensive micro ATX form factor then the difference isn't that big but if you drop the micro ATX you can come in a fair bit cheaper.

ZA Store :
20-inch widescreen LCD 1680x1050 resolution
2.16GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor1
2GB memory
250GB Serial ATA hard drive2
8x double-layer SuperDrive (DVD+R DL, DVD±RW, CD-RW)
ATI Radeon X1600 graphics with 128MB GDDR3 memory
Built-in AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth 2.0
Apple Remote
R19349.00

PC Palace :
204Bt 20" WIDE TFT, 1600 x 1050, 5 Millisecond R2,382
Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHZ, 4MB L2 Cache, 1066Mhz Frontside Bus from prophecy.co.za R2673.93
Intel 'Westchester' G965 mobo R1,053
Gigabyte X1 Chassis - Black 400W PSU R423
2GB DDR800 memory R2,083
250GB Serial ATA hard drive R649
LG Super Multi DVD Writer GSA-H42L Internal IDE (Dual Layer) Light Scribe
(DVD+ R 18x, DVD-R 8x, DVD+RW 4x, DVD-RW 4x) R316
RADEON X1650PRO 256MB GDDR3, Dual DVI ( Dual link ) R997.5 from prophecy.co.za
R 11454.43 excl
R 13058.00 incl

There you have a R6300 price difference excluding the Apple Remote and Airport stuff and it has a better CPU, better gfx card and a more powerful PSU.
Even if you switch to micro ATX with a fancy case it'll still be a fair bit cheaper.

Then please add it. Adding a standard brick tower rather than a suitable comparison is just wrong.

Regardless it looks like the main price difference is the ram upgrade and you haven't even included software or a comparable case. Preconceptions are amazing things aren't they?

But alas I don't read and I say stupid stuff.

It sure seems that way.

Yes for the one with only 1GB of RAM which is pitiful if you're working with big images in Photoshop.
I added an extra 1GB in case you didn't notice.
Upgrading the iMac RAM from 1GB to 2GB costs an additional R4676.00

No doubt that that cost is ridiculous. But you could get the ram from somewhere else at a much better price. This is just a blatant ripoff and shameless profiteering.

 

[hj2k_x]

Then please add it. Adding a standard brick tower rather than a suitable comparison is just wrong.

Regardless it looks like the main price difference is the ram upgrade and you haven't even included software or a comparable case. Preconceptions are amazing things aren't they?



It sure seems that way.




No doubt that that cost is ridiculous. But you could get the ram from somewhere else at a much better price.

He gave you a PC equivalent of your MAC, not a MAC-clone.

You could not clone a PC with a MAC if you wanted to so you shouldn't expect us to do the same.

 

[icyrus]

He gave you a PC equivalent of your MAC, not a MAC-clone.

You could not clone a PC with a MAC if you wanted to so you shouldn't expect us to do the same.

Rubbish. Just because design does not mean anything to you doesn't mean everyone shares your opinion. I very much doubt someone considering an iMac will be happy with a black brick tower instead.

Typical.

Edit: oh and I didn't even mention things like fan noise and case rattle that you will undoubtedly get from that PC setup.

 

[hj2k_x]

Rubbish. Just because design does not mean anything to you doesn't mean everyone shares your opinion. I very much doubt someone considering an iMac will be happy with a black brick tower instead.

Typical.

I am not saying that a basic case is the way to go, I am saying that you wanted a PC equivalent. PC's have cases that are like that. For a few Rands more you can get quite a fancy one, or even something small if that tickles your fancy.

 

[icyrus]

I am not saying that a basic case is the way to go, I am saying that you wanted a PC equivalent. PC's have cases that are like that. For a few Rands more you can get quite a fancy one, or even something small if that tickles your fancy.

The point is if you take away that ram upgrade and add in a comparable case the prices are pretty similar despite the missing extras and software.

It seems that despite the evidence to the contrary some people just wont let go of their preconceptions.

Edit: And BTW the RAM upgrade on the official apple store is only $175 so the question should rather be about zastore's blatant profiteering rather than how expensive mac are.

 

[hj2k_x]

The point is if you take away that ram upgrade and add in a comparable case the prices are pretty similar despite the missing extras and software.

It seems that despite the evidence to the contrary some people just wont let go of their preconceptions.

If you say so. I have not come across much evidence in any of these posts that would sway me in favour of MAC.

Perhaps the +20k machines, but I don't think that many people will be considering a machine with eight CPU cores.

For me, the problem will always be the lower-end pricing.

I still contend that they have worse specs than simliar PC's, in general very poor graphics and not enough RAM.

MAC's do have their strengths of course. Design and apparent reliability being two of them. Also, the bundled software is great ( Having to pay for software is an entirely different issue about which I also feel strongly), but these factors alone are not enough for me to shall out the extra cash. (or advise anyone I know about to buy a computer to do so)

 

[hj2k_x]

Edit: And BTW the RAM upgrade on the official apple store is only $175 so the question should rather be about zastore's blatant profiteering rather than how expensive mac are.

Aha! There we have another good point. SA has the most expensive Apple store there is. Overseas there might be more of a case for getting a MAC over a PC, which is why I imagine you tend to see more MACs overseas than you do here.

 

[Paul_S]

Regardless it looks like the main price difference is the ram upgrade and you haven't even included software or a comparable case. Preconceptions are amazing things aren't they?

I run Linux - it costs me nothing extra.
Call that a preconception if you will - my pocket knows the difference.

 

[Skeptik]

Aha! There we have another good point. SA has the most expensive Apple store there is. Overseas there might be more of a case for getting a MAC over a PC, which is why I imagine you tend to see more MACs overseas than you do here.

As far as I can tell, the markup on SA Macs is stupidly large. It's as if they flew each machine in individually and want you to pay for the privilege.

If they were cheaper, I would buy one.

 

[bwana]

You could not clone a PC with a MAC if you wanted to so you shouldn't expect us to do the same.

Please explain that?

Any new mac can run windows natively from boot up - if I stuck it under a desk and gave you a standard windows keyboard I doubt you would be able to tell the difference unless you looked at the drivers or peaked at the case.

I run Linux - it costs me nothing extra.
Call that a preconception if you will - my pocket knows the difference.

Then why all the fuss over how much ram is in the system?

Yes for the one with only 1GB of RAM which is pitiful if you're working with big images in Photoshop.
I added an extra 1GB in case you didn't notice.
Upgrading the iMac RAM from 1GB to 2GB costs an additional R4676.00

You obviously dont work in photoshop if you're running linux.

 

[icyrus]

Please explain that?

Any new mac can run windows natively from boot up - if I stuck it under a desk and gave you a standard windows keyboard I doubt you would be able to tell the difference unless you looked at the drivers or peaked at the case

I think he means you can get a cheap and nasty grey box mac.

I think this "mac are much more expensive than PCs" bit has been thoroughly debunked though.

 

[Paul_S]

Please explain that?

Any new mac can run windows natively from boot up - if I stuck it under a desk and gave you a standard windows keyboard I doubt you would be able to tell the difference unless you looked at the drivers or peaked at the case.

I think the poster meant that you can't buy a PC with the same form factor as an iMac.
An iMac has unique styling which can't be bought in a PC format.

Then why all the fuss over how much ram is in the system? You obviously dont work in photoshop if you're running linux.

I edit aerial and satellite imagery in GIMP and other GIS tools under Linux.
The smallest ones are about 17000x15000 pixels (~800MB) and the largest about 90000x70000 pixels (20GB).
Trust me - you need a fair bit of RAM for processing images that size.
I mentioned Photoshop since most people are more familiar with it than GIMP.

 

[bwana]

As far as I can tell, the markup on SA Macs is stupidly large. It's as if they flew each machine in individually and want you to pay for the privilege.

If they were cheaper, I would buy one.

I agree - the local reseller is doing Apple a grave disservice by overcharging for the hardware. I'm fortunate to have an easy means of getting around that but most dont.

I think this "mac are much more expensive than PCs" bit has been thoroughly debunked though.

It's a tedious argument, especially when you're dealing with someone who is lacking any worthwhile experience with the hardware and software in question. Its paramount to giving a review of a movie you've never seen even if you've read the book.

 

[PearlJam]

Is it safe to say that a Core2Duo 2.4mhz performs the same in a mac vs a pc, and 1 gb ram does the same for both?

Does the OS change the way the hardware are utilised?

PS. Is the ram modules exactly the same (pins, etc.) as used by pc's? Interchangeable?

 

[bwana]

Is it safe to say that a Core2Duo 2.4mhz performs the same in a mac vs a pc, and 1 gb ram does the same for both?

No

Does the OS change the way the hardware are utilised?

Yes

PS. Is the ram modules exactly the same (pins, etc.) as used by pc's? Interchangeable?

Yes - that's why most mac users buy generic after market ram.