Mac vs PC

[bwana]

They're missing out, can tell you that

Just got a new GF8800GTS and man this thing is KICK ASS!

Not really - for the time it takes to buy and assemble the components for a DIY pc I would have earned more than than I would have saved.

Assembled for Photoshop hey?

Or anything else you can think of.

 

[hj2k_x]

In that case you should be questioning everyone who's ever bought a Dell, HP, Sony etc because that would be a more accurate comparison.

Most people cant build their own machines and even if they could most people wouldn't even want to.

The shift seems to me to be away from buying a PC whole to having one tailor-made for the consumer. Dell are a good example of just this. Their prices are not.

For me, the fact that I just 'put together' that crazy double dualcore MAC for R6000 less when taking PC components means a whole lot. I will not pay R6000 to have my computer be white and come already assembled in a box.

 

[Gnome]

Not really - for the time it takes to buy and assemble the components for a DIY pc I would have earned more than than I would have saved.Or anything else you can think of.

It only takes about an hour to assemble a PC, but that's not the reason why, it's a hobby so obviously if you don't like electronics you won't want to assemble your own PC.

 

[hj2k_x]

It only takes about an hour to assemble a PC, but that's not the reason why, it's a hobby so obviously if you don't like electronics you won't want to assemble your own PC.

Or you can get the place that you bought it from to put it together for you.

many many places do this. I had to pay R300 to have mine come pre-assembled.

 

[Fudzy]

Most resellers charge between R100 - R300 to build your machine (PC) up for you anyway. PC comes in cheaper everytime.

 

[bwana]

It only takes about an hour to assemble a PC, but that's not the reason why, it's a hobby so obviously if you don't like electronics you won't want to assemble your own PC.

Hobby or not the overwhelming majority of people dont want to go through the effort, they also want someone other than themselves that they can point their fingers at [-]if[/-] when something goes wrong. They also want to buy from a name they trust like Dell or HP and not Joe's Backyard Computers. I've assembled a few dozen pc's for myself, friends and family who've wanted to save a few bucks. They know I'll probably sort them out if something goes wrong down the road but what if I simply didnt want to?

Back to my the point I made earlier on - if you havent used a Mac and OsX you really dont have a basis for comparison because it is the complete package and that is what you're paying for, everything else that a mac can do wrt other OS's etc is just gravy.

 

[hj2k_x]

Well if anyone asks me what computer i recommend they buy, and this happens A LOT, I never recommend MAC, and this is not going to change unless they bring their prices down.

I have used a MAC, both the old ones and the new Intel-based ones. Sure, they are nice, but the price difference is not justified by the operating system, and, as shown, the components can be aquired for a lot less money.

 

[bwana]

Well if anyone asks me what computer i recommend they buy, and this happens A LOT, I never recommend MAC, and this is not going to change unless they bring their prices down.

I have used a MAC, both the old ones and the new Intel-based ones. Sure, they are nice, but the price difference is not justified by the operating system, and, as shown, the components can be aquired for a lot less money.

How long have you used a mac for?

 

[hj2k_x]

How long have you used a mac for?

Not as long as you

I am sure you are going to say that I would need to use it for months or weeks at least to experience its true glory, and I am sure you are right.

Don't get me wrong- I love a lot about the MAC, but for me, the price is what stops me ever wanting one.

Even if I saved up for the bottom-end iMAC, when I got it, I would rather sell it and spend the cash on a better PC, or a similar one and have some money left over.

 

[icyrus]

Well if anyone asks me what computer i recommend they buy, and this happens A LOT, I never recommend MAC, and this is not going to change unless they bring their prices down.

I have used a MAC, both the old ones and the new Intel-based ones. Sure, they are nice, but the price difference is not justified by the operating system, and, as shown, the components can be aquired for a lot less money.

Still waiting on those dell comparisons there.

So enthusiasts here have a fascination with building their own machines from components (been there, done that and now I no longer have the time or inclination to do so) but what about laptops?

Also I can't help but notice that your "specs" for your alternative machine are incomplete. How about you flesh it out: all components and software and their prices that Joe Public can get them for.

 

[hj2k_x]

Still waiting on those dell comparisons there.

So enthusiasts here have a fascination with building their own machines from components (been there, done that and now I no longer have the time or inclination to do so) but what about laptops?

Also I can't help but notice that your "specs" for your alternative machine are incomplete. How about you flesh it out: all components and software and their prices that Joe Public can get them for.

Hehe, man I love a good debate

Dell I never recommended and never will. Very pricey(almost akin to MACs ) but if you give me a sec, I will find their ridiculously-priced comparable PC and we can have it out.

What is missing from my alternate machine specs?

Also, here is a challenge for you, seeing as I am doing all the work!

Look at the bottom-end iMac going for nearly R10000 and tell me you can't find a PC equivalent for that money. I will find one that has a bigger screen and better gfx.

This will take time.

I will be back after four to resume this debate

 

[bwana]

Not as long as you

ok - It's just that I recalled you saying you have always steered clear of macs altogether.

 

[hj2k_x]

Actually, icyrus, how about you find methat Dell machine that is similar and then we can go from there.

I will focus on what I know. That is putting together a similar machine to that one quoted for less money. If you would just tell me how my specs were 'incomplete' and can get cracking...

Laters

 

[icyrus]

Actually, icyrus, how about you find methat Dell machine that is similar and then we can go from there.

I will focus on what I know. That is putting together a similar machine to that one quoted for less money. If you would just tell me how my specs were 'incomplete' and can get cracking...

Laters

I'm not looking for a fight, but this is interesting. So lets say you list the parts like this:

brand - part - price (price inc vat and must be a retail price, not dealership price)

Don't forget the OS (I don't really know vista's flavors so you will have to choose but be reasonable).

Don't forget the case either. You would do well to include one that is comparable to the mac pro case if we are doing a mac pro comparison.

Power supply?

What about a warranty?

 

[icyrus]

I am not sure how I can post a link from Dell website that will show you the options I have chosen but here is the link to the Dell workstation customization page:

http://commerce.euro.dell.com/dells...r&l=en&s=zapad&store=zapad&sbc=zapadprecn&v=d

Below the quote

-* Dell Precision™ 690 *-
=========================
Quantity : 1
Total excl.VAT : R32,443.58
Total incl.VAT : R36,985.68


Dell Recommended Features
=========================
The above Dell Recommended features are included in this system configuration price. To view full system features, please click on Learn More link above.

Operating System
================
(English) Genuine Windows Vista™ Business WITH Media

Base Unit
=========
Two Intel® Xeon® 5130 (2.0GHz,1333MHz,4MB Cache) (+ ZAR R10,223)

Dell System Media Kits
======================
System Drivers & Resource CD Kit

Graphics Card
=============
256MB nVidia Quadro FX3500 Graphics Card - Dell Recommended Feature

Memory
======
1GB DDR2 667 Quad Channel FBD Memory (2x512MB) (-ZAR - R2,525)

Maintenance Service
===================
3 Year Onsite Service with Next Business Day Response

Business Support
================
Not Required (-ZAR - R702)

HDD Configurations
==================
All SATA drives, RAID 0, 2 drive total configuration

1st (Boot) Hard Drive
=====================
250GB (7,200 rpm) SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive (+ ZAR R280)

Primary Optical Device
======================
16x max DVD+/-RW Drive(2) Drive with double layer write capability(1) - Dell Recommended Feature

Floppy drive/Media Card Reader
==============================
3.5 inch 1.44MB Floppy Drive

Keyboard
========
Enhanced Quietkey™ USB Spacesaver keyboard

Mouse
=====
Dell 2 Button USB Scroll Black Mouse

Now that seems rather high, so I expect I may have missed something I should have taken off so if you see it please point it out. Note that they didn't have a equivalent gfx card so I chose the recommended.

 

[hj2k_x]

I am not looking for a fight either but this is, as ever, an interesting topic.

Thanks for the work on the dell quote. I hate that site. The quoted price is really high, but that's dell for you

I will try to post a complete updated version of that other PC, with links (and stuff like a case ) just now ...

 

[hj2k_x]

Intel Xeon 5130 , socket 771 , dual core 2.00ghz box cpu , 65w , R3604.90 x 2 = R7210

Intel SE7520BD2SATAD2 Brandon - Dual Xeon S/board, Intel7520 Chi
R4027.46

Antec Nine Hundred with windowed side panel , black , no psu , b R1360.68

iSonic Omega Megapower 600W Modular Cabling R519.84

seagate barracuda with NCQ , 250gb, s-ata2 R756.37

Elsa nVidia GeForce 7300 GT 256B3 256mb R1416.56

Liteon® Dual Layer DVD ReWriter - 16X DVD+R, 16x DVD-R - White R454.86

Well that is a start...All prices from prophecy, who seem a good benchmark. No software as yet. I did not want to add this in.

Total so far is already R15000 odd, and you might nit-pick with the PSU. I am not sure what RAM this beast takes? The mobo says up to DDR400? Is that correct?

What else am I missing?

 

[icyrus]

"667MHz DDR2 ECC fully buffered DIMM (FB-DIMM) memory" is what the mac pro has.

Tell me about the cooling for yours

 

[hj2k_x]

"667MHz DDR2 ECC fully buffered DIMM (FB-DIMM) memory" is what the mac pro has.

Tell me about the cooling for yours

Ok...So like another grand for the RAM and another for the cooling...

It is looking closer than I had thought. But who is going to buy this PC? Not many people.

My main gripe was with the IMacs. You have to admit they are poorly specced for the price or poorly priced for their specs

 

[icyrus]

Ok...So like another grand for the RAM and another for the cooling...

It is looking closer than I had thought. But who is going to buy this PC? Not many people.

My main gripe was with the IMacs. You have to admit they are poorly specced for the price or poorly priced for their specs

Hahah no most ordinary people will never see a workstation machine like that let alone contemplate buying one. But that applies to the PCs as much as the macs.

Speaking of the iMac - what would your replacement specs look like?

The big thing it has in its favor (and I imagine what drives the price up a bit) is the compact one piece design. Not my cup of tea but someone might prefer it.