Maimane admits to having problems with Die Stem

Ditch The Call Die Stem.

Really, 20 years on, its quite enough.
In my lily white community nobody really cares, we just want a workable society.

That said a whole new anthem would probably be the best way to go.
Can't keep hanging onto the past for the wrong reasons I reckon.
 
No it isn't, if anything it is similar to Zulu.

I know the official ndebele is closer, but there was one dialect in Pretoria that sounded like Tswana, yet the people claimed it was Ndebele or some mix (I might be wrong on the exact name). Either way, my point is that the boundaries on these languages are not entirely fixed and they can be grouped in some loose sense.
 
One thing to mention regarding anthems is that the only chance the world will really perceive our anthem would be through sport. There is nothing to be proud of currently for South African sport as it is also butchered through racism.

Individual sports are ruined through a lack of funding (tennis, athletics etc.). Golf is the one sport where individuals can excel, but it is currently limited to those born in wealthy enough families to support this venture.
 
I know the official ndebele is closer, but there was one dialect in Pretoria that sounded like Tswana, yet the people claimed it was Ndebele or some mix (I might be wrong on the exact name). Either way, my point is that the boundaries on these languages are not entirely fixed and they can be grouped in some loose sense.

They can be loosely grouped like pretty much all languages, even European ones, but at the end of the day they are obviously different languages with their own dialects.
 
One thing to mention regarding anthems is that the only chance the world will really perceive our anthem would be through sport. There is nothing to be proud of currently for South African sport as it is also butchered through racism.

Individual sports are ruined through a lack of funding (tennis, athletics etc.). Golf is the one sport where individuals can excel, but it is currently limited to those born in wealthy enough families to support this venture.

Professional sport in general is a rich man's game. Anything from chess, to rugby etc.If your parents do not have money and aren't involved your chances are severely screwed, only a few lucky ones get scholarships.
 
I know the official ndebele is closer, but there was one dialect in Pretoria that sounded like Tswana, yet the people claimed it was Ndebele or some mix (I might be wrong on the exact name). Either way, my point is that the boundaries on these languages are not entirely fixed and they can be grouped in some loose sense.
Yes, if a comment on a previous MyBB article is to believed then this is the "African" part, or at least part of the "African" part of our current national anthem.

original.jpg
 
Professional sport in general is a rich man's game. Anything from chess, to rugby etc.If your parents do not have money and aren't involved your chances are severely screwed, only a few lucky ones get scholarships.
I'll accept your premise. Still does not mean our team sports are not corrupted through politics. Whether maladministration for Bafana or quotas for Cricket and Rugby.
 
They can be loosely grouped like pretty much all languages, even European ones, but at the end of the day they are obviously different languages with their own dialects.

This is definitely true in Europe, I can understand Norwegian, Dutch, Flemish, and a bit of Danish, just because I can speak both Afrikaans and German. The Europeans are also full of **** when it comes to languages. Croatian and Serbian are almost identical, yet one uses the Cyrillic alphabet and one uses the Latin one. The point is, that if SA wants to be practical, it would be easier to group the languages together use a Sotho language of Nguni language structure for example and allow the regions to speak the different dialects (or sister languages if you will).
 
Not sure if official, but I believe India has more languages than us as well.
Not sure the relevance, but India is a bit of an anomaly, don't you think? Their population is 25 times ours... heck, their top 9 most populous states individually outnumber us. With such numbers would come a degree of diversity we don't even need to contemplate. No need to be unsure though, the info is easy to find: India has no national, constitutionally declared language but 22 officially recognised languages spread across its 29 states, who are free to declare their chosen one(s) as official. Of interest is that English plays a big part in interstate communication, which is sort of what I'm getting at in a roundabout fashion.

The way to identify a language's prevalence is to measure whether it is still being spoken in the kitchen. If it's still spoken in the kitchen it's still VERY far from dying. I would venture to say Afrikaans is so young and so much in development yet it is impossible to just kill it off. It's spoken by millions and understood by even those who choose not to speak it (at worst to some degree).

For African languages I would say the fact that there's a new indigenous alphabet planned (a really awesome thing) means those languages are only starting to mature now. I suspect that a "picture-based" alphabet will serve African languages much better than a traditional Western alphabet. Much the same as Mandarin and so on are best served with a completely different dynamic as to how to write down something.

For these reasons and for the simple reason too that discarding a language willy-nilly whilst so prevalent yet I don't think it's the best idea to force one language over another. Traditionally it took centuries for conquered regions to change language completely and even then the local language(s) generally remains. It causes no harm to anyone.

Let things take their natural course.
My personal view on this is informed neither by wanting to 'force' any one language onto another, nor by wanting to 'discard' Afrikaans specifically; I am Afrikaans, for Pete's sake. It rather only represents some not-terribly-serious ruminations predicated on the fact that none of our official languages, apart from English, mean much outside of SA's borders. It's supported by my view that the world is simply bound to become ever more homogeneous as a matter of course, perhaps only until we secure our own extinction, but that's another discussion. Within that framework, I personally view the artificial protection of cultural diversity as more than a little futile and silly. We should be creeping towards global understanding and cooperation, not trying to invent fresh bloody alphabets. :p

More on the subject; for mine the specific wording of the Afrikaans within our current national anthem is beautiful wording no matter which way you look at it.

Still, I can fathom that it may trigger some bad memories. If people are allowed to sing "kill the boer kill the farmer" in native tongue or not I simply expect that those who are Afrikaans may sing Die Stem if they so please.
Mooi, né? However 'mooi' doesn't trump context, and where such remnants of old are trotted out to antagonise and offend people should be called out.

Apartheid is being fouled for much more than it was. It was segregation and it was expected people would look after their own. Those that ended up working for white people chose to do so. The really bad thing, and worst thing of apartheid, was to initially move these people to other areas. Other than that they were predominantly left alone so they could rule over themselves.
Yeah, no... here's where you and I won't agree. Apartheid was the foulest kind of social experiment, built on one creed's unsupported conviction of their own superiority. Now, I'm no advocate of white guilt, but to view apartheid as anything less than utterly reprehensible is to trivialise a great, sadly recent, injustice to humanity. If the NATs were even slightly less of a bunch of self-aggrandising ****s, our current problems might have been exponentially simpler to fix.
 
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As an Afrikaner I also agree with him, let go of The Stem.

There is no place for it in our society.
 
Not sure the relevance, but India is a bit of an anomaly, don't you think? Their population is 25 times ours... heck, their top 9 most populous states individually outnumber us. With such numbers would come a degree of diversity we don't even need to contemplate. No need to be unsure though, the info is easy to find: India has no national, constitutionally declared language but 22 officially recognised languages spread across its 29 states, who are free to declare their chosen one(s) as official. Of interest is that English plays a big part in interstate communication, which is sort of what I'm getting at in a roundabout fashion.

Their population may be 25 times ours, but it was not always that way. Think about that. Dialects had to exist for it to be incorporated into such a huge population.


My personal view on this is informed neither by wanting to 'force' any one language onto another, nor by wanting to 'discard' Afrikaans specifically; I am Afrikaans, for Pete's sake. It rather only represents some not-terribly-serious ruminations predicated on the fact that none of our official languages, apart from English, mean much outside of SA's borders. It's supported by my view that the world is simply bound to become ever more homogeneous as a matter of course, perhaps only until we secure our own extinction, but that's another discussion. Within that framework, I personally view the artificial protection of cultural diversity as more than a little futile and silly. We should be creeping towards global understanding and cooperation, not trying to invent fresh bloody alphabets. :p

None of Japanese, German, Dutch, heck to some degree even French or "Chinese" (Mandarin and their derivatives or counters) mean much outside of their borders. It does not mean it is irrelevant and in contrast it shows great intellect and development of a nation which is capable of going its own way. Yes, globalism is something that is bound to happen (It is Biblical if you believe in that). Since I believe it will happen does not mean myself or anyone else need to approve of it. I sincerely despise the idea of globalism, but that too, as you have said yourself, is a point for another discussion.

Mooi, né? However 'mooi' doesn't trump context, and where such remnants of old are trotted out to antagonise and offend people should be called out.
I did not say it should trump context, what I said is if it is necessary to change the anthem and remove those verses then it would only be fair for one demographic to sing their song as much as the next.


Yeah, no... here's where you and I won't agree. Apartheid was the foulest kind of social experiment, built on one creed's unsupported conviction of their own superiority. Now, I'm no advocate of white guilt, but to view apartheid as anything less than utterly reprehensible is to trivialise a great, sadly recent, injustice to humanity. If the NATs were even slightly less of a bunch of self-aggrandising ****s, our current problems might have been exponentially simpler to fix.
I wholeheartedly agree that apartheid was not in the best interest of the country, but I will maintain there have been far more damaging "experiments" throughout history. Also, if we're going to get stuck into the "sadly recent" history where will we end up because there will always be "sad recent history" wherever you may find yourself. Recent is also subjective.

As a young German explained to me in Bad Honnef that he believes white South Africans (in his mind's interpretation) probably feel about apartheid much the same as most of the German population feel about Hitler and the Holocaust - they simply don't need reminding of things their forefathers did for they know it was wrong. Despite this they grew to be a strong nation again.

To linger on apartheid is similar to linger on your past where your parents divorced and you keep using it as an excuse for your own failures in life.

There are too many examples of people from terrible situations achieving phenomenal things to allow ourselves to be immersed in the past atrocities of people who are largely outnumbered or dead.

EDIT: If you believe that globalisation means one language you are sadly mistaken. As it stands I can read and listen to Greek, Spanish, Russian, Chinese, Japanese, Arabic and all other officials in my language of choice. If you can't influence language over a certain region in centuries you would be mistaken to think you would be able to do so indefinitely without uprising on a global scale where there are so many languages involved.. For one you would attempt to have the majority of the world's population on your side so you would woo them, not by n,being different or foreign, but to speak to their needs. All you need to do is get those in control of their territories in your own pocket.

Honestly if I can imagine this then certainly there are hundreds of thousands of people more powerful who imagine and have imagined similar things who have the capacity to go ahead with such plans.
 
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It's such a horrible Anthem. The only people who sing it are nostalgic drunkards at sports bars after midnight.
 
It's such a horrible Anthem. The only people who sing it are nostalgic drunkards at sports bars after midnight.

[video=youtube;ZI4r-belU0A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZI4r-belU0A[/video]
 
Nobody gives a **** about Afrikaans, stop trying to make it 'happen' it won't... get over it already....
 
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