Manual vs Automatic

TehStranger said:
I've driven more than my fair share of performance autos and manuals, and I'll pick the manual every time. But then again I'm still quite young - this mindset might change when I hit 30, well for road cars at least. I do plan on some dedicated track toys in the future, and they'll all be manual.
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I think you hit the nail on the head with that comment. I was also all manual all the time until I hit 30 and started really evaluating how I spend my time in traffic etc.

I'd have a manual, but only as a second car...and even then it would need to be really special over it's automatic counterpart or really truly make me feel genuinely more involved.

Generally I find manual to be cumbersome instead of involving...even the RS4 I drove in manual the other day...I would rather have in Auto.
 
I've been driving manual for 30 years because it's manual and it's what you do unless you are American.

Got an automatic nearly 2 years ago now I can't stand manual. What a complete waste of time and energy.
 
TehStranger said:
Doesn't come close to being as involving or as fun as a proper short-shifting manual box though.
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You know what was more involving than a proper short-shifting manual? Having to train and feed and stable and saddle up and control a horse... You don't see people riding around on horses, do you? :erm::D:D
 
But if you opt for auto its more expensive so most will probably go for manual if price is a factor. I know the BMW steptronic box is 16k extra.
 
Spizz said:
I've been driving manual for 30 years because it's manual and it's what you do unless you are American.

Got an automatic nearly 2 years ago now I can't stand manual. What a complete waste of time and energy.
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Also changed over to auto about 3 years ago.. Manual like you say is waste of energy. Plus in an auto there is less chance of spilling your beer :p
 
Drive a car with a ZF 8 speed auto box and you'll forget all about manual.
 
SauRoNZA said:
I think you hit the nail on the head with that comment. I was also all manual all the time until I hit 30 and started really evaluating how I spend my time in traffic etc.

I'd have a manual, but only as a second car...and even then it would need to be really special over it's automatic counterpart or really truly make me feel genuinely more involved.

Generally I find manual to be cumbersome instead of involving...even the RS4 I drove in manual the other day...I would rather have in Auto.
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I think manual is involving when it's perfectly matched to the car. Like my S2000, putting an auto box in that would let down the rest of the driver-focussed elements in the car (light weight, rear-wheel drive, 9,000rpm redline). It must be said that my car is used for far more than the daily commute, so there it makes sense.

Something like an RS4 (as much as I love them) is just a very powerful sedan, so the difference between manual and auto is less pronounced.

Quantum Theory said:
You know what was more involving than a proper short-shifting manual? Having to train and feed and stable and saddle up and control a horse... You don't see people riding around on horses, do you? :erm::D:D
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True, but I can't powerslide a horse on my way to the office in the mornings. :whistle:
 
DrewChan said:
Is it just me or are more and more cars Automatic... I have been looking on the sedan side of things and everything is bloody Automatic :( here I am specifically mentioning the Sonata, however most c-class mercs and Audi A4s seem to be Automatic too.
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Yes, BMW 3-Series, the ZF 8-speed Auto is the popular choice. With high performance BMWs, the 7-speed double clutch automated manual (M-DCT) is the norm. Both technologies have advanced so much. Both offer "manual" modes with M-DCT being the best.
 
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TehStranger said:
I think manual is involving when it's perfectly matched to the car. Like my S2000, putting an auto box in that would let down the rest of the driver-focussed elements in the car (light weight, rear-wheel drive, 9,000rpm redline). It must be said that my car is used for far more than the daily commute, so there it makes sense.
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But that's exactly what I meant with less powerful cars (compared to an RS4 I mean) feeling more powerful with the help of a manual because of that illusion of wringing the power out of it...especially on a high revving V-Tec like yours.

Fact is though when the S2000 came out Automatics were pretty poor...now they aren't automatics any more but manuals with electronic clutches and if there was a "new" S2000 you might have sung a very different tune.

Hard to compare your car to something else that isn't still coming (MX5) so the closest I would say is the Jaguar F-Type...I wouldn't want that in a manual either and that's far from being a powerful sedan.


I do enjoy a manual drive...but I wouldn't want to own one, if that makes sense.
 
SauRoNZA said:
But that's exactly what I meant with less powerful cars (compared to an RS4 I mean) feeling more powerful with the help of a manual because of that illusion of wringing the power out of it...especially on a high revving V-Tec like yours.

Fact is though when the S2000 came out Automatics were pretty poor...now they aren't automatics any more but manuals with electronic clutches and if there was a "new" S2000 you might have sung a very different tune.

Hard to compare your car to something else that isn't still coming (MX5) so the closest I would say is the Jaguar F-Type...I wouldn't want that in a manual either and that's far from being a powerful sedan.


I do enjoy a manual drive...but I wouldn't want to own one, if that makes sense.
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i agree
 
SauRoNZA said:
But that's exactly what I meant with less powerful cars (compared to an RS4 I mean) feeling more powerful with the help of a manual because of that illusion of wringing the power out of it...especially on a high revving V-Tec like yours.

Fact is though when the S2000 came out Automatics were pretty poor...now they aren't automatics any more but manuals with electronic clutches and if there was a "new" S2000 you might have sung a very different tune.

Hard to compare your car to something else that isn't still coming (MX5) so the closest I would say is the Jaguar F-Type...I wouldn't want that in a manual either and that's far from being a powerful sedan.


I do enjoy a manual drive...but I wouldn't want to own one, if that makes sense.
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it's not just about feeling more powerful though, it's about feeling like a part of the machine you're driving.

I've been behind the wheel of some auto cars with a fair bit of power and incredible auto boxes (E92 BMW M3 DCT, Golf 7R, Lexus IS350 F Sport as examples). Yes they're fast. Yes they're involving to a point (in the case of the M3), but I still miss the special experience of a manual. if the car is special (like an M3, S2000, Porsche Cayman S etc.) then it needs a manual. If the car is something regular that has been "performanced-up" like a Golf 7R and Audi RS4 (base on the regular Golf and A4), auto is the better bet.

If the car is something solely mean for traffic and the occasional long distance cruise, auto is probably better.

I see your argument that the S2000 with a modern "auto" could be a better bet, but I disagree about signing a different tune. I've spent time behind the wheel of both a Manual and Automatic 370Z which is similar to my S2000 (less hardcore and driver centric, but with a fair chunk more power) and I vastly prefer the manual. it's not all about the power (if it was I'd never have bought an S2000, especially at altitude), it's about the experience. And in terms of experience and involvement, a manual is hard to beat.
 
TehStranger said:
it's not just about feeling more powerful though, it's about feeling like a part of the machine you're driving.

I've been behind the wheel of some auto cars with a fair bit of power and incredible auto boxes (E92 BMW M3 DCT, Golf 7R, Lexus IS350 F Sport as examples). Yes they're fast. Yes they're involving to a point (in the case of the M3), but I still miss the special experience of a manual. if the car is special (like an M3, S2000, Porsche Cayman S etc.) then it needs a manual. If the car is something regular that has been "performanced-up" like a Golf 7R and Audi RS4 (base on the regular Golf and A4), auto is the better bet.

If the car is something solely mean for traffic and the occasional long distance cruise, auto is probably better.

I see your argument that the S2000 with a modern "auto" could be a better bet, but I disagree about signing a different tune. I've spent time behind the wheel of both a Manual and Automatic 370Z which is similar to my S2000 (less hardcore and driver centric, but with a fair chunk more power) and I vastly prefer the manual. it's not all about the power (if it was I'd never have bought an S2000, especially at altitude), it's about the experience. And in terms of experience and involvement, a manual is hard to beat.
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Nah I completely get what you are saying. It's very circumstantial though and would vary greatly from one car to another.

For instance one of the best drives I've ever had was a Mini in manual largely because the gearbox was like a sniper rifle and driving and operating it was fantastic. I wouldn't have that one any other way for that particular purpose.

But would I buy a manual Mini to drive to work every day? Not a hell...not a manual or a Mini. Then again I don't do cars to sit in traffic anyway.

Off your list... M3 I might do manual, haven't driven one. Golf I would do Auto (but then I'm biased since I have one and would buy it like that again)...Lexus probably do the Auto as well.

Cayman I would probably agree with you as that wouldn't be a daily and I haven't driven one so I can't really say PDK vs Manual but for the type of car I think I would lean to manual because it would have been purchased for a purpose...in much the same way your S2000 is a very dedicated car where it makes a lot of sense.

Which brings me back to what I said from the start...my 1st (Daily) car will always be auto and therefore something that is appropriate to it.

My 2nd car would be a sporty toy and quite possibly manual...but that I would choose based on back to back test drives of both.

I don't find my DSG less engaging at all (for the type of car it is compared to a manual) and in fact I think I concentrate more on my driving and therefore do it better and faster. An S2000 as it is today I couldn't imagine with an automatic either.

*****

For me the major benefit in manual is actually driving familiar roads and gearing down into the perfect gear so you have full power out. I have that same option with my paddles.

The clutch is the last thing I care for. And as rewarding as that perfect shift is...I'm over it.

This coming from a man who rides motorcycles every day and probably won't buy the next one without a quick shifter. :)
 
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