Manual vs Automatic

[nazmo]

Im done with manuals. Fast Autos/Dual Clutch boxes are the perfect mix of daily and dynamic.

also fart noises and blips are fun

 

[Dan C]

How do you drink a beer and make a phone call when you are driving a manual?

 

[ubercal]

How do you drink a beer and make a phone call when you are driving a manual?

Dont need to as the manual is engaging enough

 

[Splinter]

Yes this is very much a debate about personal preferences. And that way others' attack alternative viewpoints is so typical. Anyone that does not simply follow the steeple is automatically attacked and accused of being "clueless".
Never mind 45 years of experience driving all sorts of vehicles from tractors to large machinery with a range of automatic and semi automatic boxes.

Blerry hell Geoff, this is all you have been doing!

I've asked how old you are; I'm going to to throw out a number and say at least 65.

 

[roadcat]

I drove a manual for 25+ years, swore I would never buy an auto, as I loved driving manual cars. Which became an issue when I moved to the US, and they don’t seem to have any manuals bought a dual-clutch auto Audi, and its awesome! Manuals are certainly a lot of fun to drive, but so is a good auto, and it has tiptronic for when I feel nostalgic

 

[ubercal]

Im done with manuals. Fast Autos/Dual Clutch boxes are the perfect mix of daily and dynamic.

also fart noises and blips are fun

actually its more about the car then the tranmission.Older cars generally make louder noises hence more fun due to emmissions etc.Newer cars make plenty of fake noises as well as been muted.

 

[nazmo]

actually its more about the car then the tranmission.Older cars generally make louder noises hence more fun due to emmissions etc.Newer cars make plenty of fake noises as well as been muted.

I dont disagree. But i have an akra + Dp so my car sounds better than any of my previous 4 cars. Also my car has genuine antilag. Its a far cry from the p-gti I had before.

 

[Claymore]

Women prefer automatics - probably because that frees up a hand for them to be able to put their make up on in the car or paly with their cell phones, NOT because they want to be safer drivers. so much of that safety argument is moot at best because one can never fully factor in the stupidity of the human being.

That's a bit sexist! I'm a guy, and I like auto because it's easier to type on my phone while driving.

A manual box is mechanically, the simplest of all things. It is a bunch of gears, a bit of oil in a box with a gear lever and a clutch that does EXACTLY what the driver determines.

When last did you look inside a manual box? They're not simple anymore, and even experienced mechanics don't touch them.

Modern automatic boxes are extremely complex things full of all sorts of things that when the break are and will always be more expensive to fix and repair AND maintain.

I've had one of each fail on me. The manual box had the clutch sheer while on the freeway, and when I stopped, I had to get towed. The auto box had friction bands fail, and I drove it in 3rd gear till I could get it repaired (it was an old one, cost me R3K).

 

[Neuk_]

That is my gripe with low powered "automatics" in the hands of people who can't drive anyway.
No one (in SA) should be allowed to pass a driving test in an automatic. They should all learn to drive manuals, then they can do as they like after that.
Not sure what the law says now but in many countries, there are two grades of licences, one for autos and one for manuals. A Manual licence allows you to convert but an auto licence means you have to re-pass the test if you want to drive a manual.
It is only the more sophisticated autos with enough power and torque convertors that are truly "automatics". The rest are under-powered toys waiting to break down in the hands of inexperienced drivers.

Our roads are deteriorating fast. The country is filled with large tracks of roads far removed from easy access to support. There many many purely practical reasons why a manual is better than an automatic in our country besides the purely superficial crap that is quoted as being an advantage of an automatic.
Women prefer automatics - probably because that frees up a hand for them to be able to put their make up on in the car or paly with their cell phones, NOT because they want to be safer drivers. so much of that safety argument is moot at best because one can never fully factor in the stupidity of the human being.

Obviously, there are many people who would not be able to drive at all if it was not for having an "automatic" and I am not including them in this categorisation.
It should be obligatory on car manufacturers to run special courses for all new owners of "automatics". Only then will they be able to say they have done their bit to ensure new car owners are able to drive their "automatics".

Jonathan's post highlights the issue. Automatics will not be guaranteed to downshift in all circumstances and kloofnek in the Cape is a test for all drivers on their first encounter with that road, regardless of owning a manual or an automatic.

You have to know the capability of the vehicle beforehand and develop a 6th sense about these things, which you will NOT learn easily in an automatic.

A manual box is mechanically, the simplest of all things. It is a bunch of gears, a bit of oil in a box with a gear lever and a clutch that does EXACTLY what the driver determines.

Modern automatic boxes are extremely complex things full of all sorts of things that when the break are and will always be more expensive to fix and repair AND maintain. The cheaper the design for the low-end car market the more risk there is of mechanical failure. The stats are there for anyone to see if you want to doubt this. Go and look for yourself. The "modern boxes" have added complexity to overcome many other things such a poor fuel economy, power loss through the chain etc. that adds to the importance of proper and regular maintenance.

So sure, IF the roads are all good, low gradient hills etc, and in dense traffic, an auto is "easier to drive" BUT it is only really an experienced driver that can truly appreciate those added benefits. The rest take it all for granted until their toy automatic breaks down late at night on the N14 close to a squatter camp. Then the message gets home. You can't even tow the stoopid thing easily (if you don't know how and who reads the manual anyway???), you cant push start it and because of all the electronics in it, you can't even jump start it. That is when the message truly gets through.

No, I can do without all those hassles. It has to be an upmarket proper automatic for me, or, a manual. And that is why I will not take an automatic low-end hire car ever. I have no personal knowledge of how well it has been maintained and abused by others. Give me a manual every time.

I think I have already said that we will have to agree to disagree on the manual versus automatic debate for various reasons. You are entitled to your opinion, as I am entitled to laugh at it, most of what you have written in this post is simply rubbish.

 

[nazmo]

Iv had a manual gearbox replaced. on my combined 4th car with DSG, none had issues.

 

[Craig_]

You are right, I have not driven many modern automatics. I always refuse an automatic hire car on principal.
I have though, sat in the passenger seat and observed others' driving their automatics. And it happens exactly as I state. You can see the frustration on the face of the driver when he realises he is not going to get past that pesky 4 x 4. Watch what happens when gets to the top of the hill! Mostly, I end up feeling sorry for the arsehole and let him get past so that he can bugger off and pester someone else with his bad driving ability and fancy car.

But then just around the corner, here he is still not realising what he has to do to maintain his cruising speed.
And BTW, my vehicle is also just about always on cruise control.

You should test drive a modern auto. Even my entry level passat **** box gears down without you even realizing it sometimes and that thing will keep its speed on cruise control regardless of uphil or downhill.

And if my car does that I can guarantee you the modern bmw's does it better.

 

[asshat99]

He has repeatedly said stupid things, made ridiculous statements about things he says he has no knowledge or experience about. This is like that other old 'mechanic' who 'built his own cars' but could not grasp the concept of a gear ratio. It is just braai talk from some one who is used to have people listen to him.

Time to say "okay boomer" and ignore.

 

[Geoff.D]

Some interesting reading for those that think small low powered cars with Automatic transmissions are just the best thing since ma fell off the bus.

Ford knew Focus, Fiesta models had flawed transmission, sold them anyway

The carmaker says that it's not a safety problem if your car slips into neutral on the highway.

www.freep.com

Ford Motor Co. knowingly launched two low-priced, fuel-efficient cars with defective transmissions and continued selling the troubled Focus and Fiesta despite thousands of complaints and an avalanche of repairs, a Free Press investigation found.


The cars, many of which randomly lose power on freeways and have unexpectedly bolted into intersections, were put on sale in 2010-11 as the nation emerged from the Great Recession. At least 1.5 million remain on the road and continue to torment their owners — and Ford.


The automaker pushed past company lawyers’ early safety questions and a veteran development engineer’s warning that the cars weren’t roadworthy, internal emails and documents show. Ford then declined, after the depth of the problem was obvious, to make an expensive change in the transmission technology.

• Ford knew its 2011 Fiesta and 2012 Focus cars had defective transmissions before the cars went on sale.
• Ford in October 2011 decided to change the transmission technology, but didn't follow through.
• Customers have reported at least 50 injuries to federal authorities related to symptoms of the defect.
• Federal regulators inquired after four years of extraordinarily high consumer complaints and declined to open an investigation or order a recall.
• Internal Ford documents show the company cut corners to save money and boost fuel efficiency.
• Ford is facing billions of dollars in warranty costs and potential liability in lawsuits.

The Mechatronics of the Volkswagen Dual-Clutch Transmission

Volkswagen's electronically controlled dual-clutch transmission was hailed as a great step forward. But a sensor failure can cause your car to shift into odd gears.

axleaddict.com

Many cars, mostly Volkswagens and Audis, have these unique advanced dual-clutch automatic transmissions. They have been around for a few years now and are hailed as an evolutionary step forward from the traditional transmission. People love them or hate them—it all depends on whether you had any problems with them. In 2009, VW recalled 53000 of them for defective mechatronic units.

BMW

BMW owners find themselves faciing thousands of dollars in transmission repair bills while the highly profitable German automaker refuses to accept any responsibility for the mounting number of failures.

"We are unaware of any widespread concern regarding the transmission. However, the actual length of life of any given vehicle part is dependent on a number of factors including care, maintenance, use, and climate," BMW AG wrote to the owner of a 2000 3 series sedan.

If you drive a BMW with an automatic transmission, you may have experienced the dreaded “Trans. Failsafe” warning on your dashboard. It’s a warning that has become synonymous with vague problems and expensive repair bills

 

[supersunbird]

All that is true, but doesn't make your incorrect BMW observations correct. I would love you to point out even one external sign on how one can recognise an auto BMW except by looking through the window and seeing what going on between the seats.

 

[Geoff.D]

NIssan:

• Nissan CVT issues are common among Nissan vehicles. Otherwise known as a continuously variable transmission, the feature was intended to increase the performance of vehicles by creating smoother gear shift capability. From 2012 to 2018, several models of Nissan vehicles received the transmission, including the Sentra, Versa, Versa Note, Altima, Rogue, and Murano models.
• Some of the most common issues with the vehicles directly relate to the transmission. Reported issues include loss of power, transmission jerking, transmission slipping, CVT coolant hose leaks and failures, and a CVT error message being displayed. These problems call the Nissan CVT transmission reliability into question and can result in serious harm to unsuspecting drivers.

 

[op365]

I drove a manual for 25+ years, swore I would never buy an auto, as I loved driving manual cars. Which became an issue when I moved to the US, and they don’t seem to have any manuals bought a dual-clutch auto Audi, and its awesome! Manuals are certainly a lot of fun to drive, but so is a good auto, and it has tiptronic for when I feel nostalgic

I have Audi A3 with Tiptronic DSG box. Only 75000km and have had to replace the clutch... Only R26000 to replace clutch (twenty six thousand).
Thinking next car will be manual as it will be a LOT cheaper to repair.

 

[Dan C]

I have Audi A3 with Tiptronic DSG box. Only 75000km and have had to replace the clutch... Only R26000 to replace clutch (twenty six thousand).
Thinking next car will be manual as it will be a LOT cheaper to repair.

Outch

 

[Johnatan56]

NIssan:

Interesting that that's the first post 2012 that you've posted. Automatics have come a long way, and I expect them to improve a lot over the next few years again, especially as one of the biggest markets in the world is pretty much automatic exclusive (USA).
Will still be interesting to see if gas 3-step automatics are cross-compatible with electric 3-step, if anyone has any links/knowledge I'd be quite interested, it would probably make the part see a huge investment (and yes, I know, electric only really "needs" one gear, 3 gear is mostly e-formula one (I think it's called that? Can't remember), and I know the i8 has a 2-stage one).

 

[Geoff.D]

The earlier ones are also fairly new but the info has been held under wraps for a long time by the companies involved.
The point is that quite a few of the smaller cars with automatic transmissions in them took alls sorts of short cuts to get them to work, some of which are really crazy. There are plenty of others with weird electrical faults, faulty relay coils that overheat, fail and prevent gear shifts from happening when they should which then leads to mechanical failures.
I am looking for another article I have somewhere, where the gist was that if the mechanical innovations that have taken place were implemented in a "manual" version, leaving out all the "automatic" gizmos, that the result would be a really great manual with a normal gear lever and clutch.

 

[Geoff.D]

More on Nissan.

Transmission troubles add to Nissan's woes

Nissan is coping with a cluster of problems, including a proposal from Renault for a holding company headquartered outside of Japan.

www.autonews.com

The more I dig, the more I find.---
Even though my original investigations were when I was in the market for a 4 x 4 in 2007, I see that if I was to again be in the market for a vehicle, I would end up in exactly the same place ---- choosing a manual if I could get one.
It does not matter which make you look at. there is enough expensive horror stories to find about failed automatic transmissions.
I guess for those that buy a new vehicle every 5 years, none of this matters.


Another article about Nissan:

Should You Trust Nissan’s CVT? Probably Not.

Can You Trust Nissan's CVT? Probably Not.

For a while cracked radiators were the number one enemy of Nissan transmissions, but these days it appears the transmissions are their own worst enemy.

www.nissanproblems.com

For a while cracked radiators were the number one enemy of Nissan transmissions, but these days it appears the transmissions are their own worst enemy.

Nissan proudly introduced what they called “the first CVT for passenger cars”1 back in 2002. It received mixed reviews, although that’s to be expected with a first-generation product. The most common complaints included difficulty accelerating, shaking / stuttering, running hot, and suddenly shutting down. Luckily, Nissan would go on to address most of those concerns…


I’m just kidding. Here we are 15 years later and those same complaints plague Nissan owners. Rather than ironing out the kinks, Nissan executives have apparently been too busy ironing out their stacks of cash.