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Sign up with GoogleMarikana Shootings Farlam Commission Thread
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2005
- Messages
- 105,603
Cop communications in spotlight
A senior police officer was questioned on Wednesday about the SA Police Service's communication difficulties during the intervention to end the violent Marikana protest in Rustenburg last year.
Evidence leader Matthew Chaskalson SC was cross-examining Lt-Col Duncan Scott at the Marikana commission's public hearings in Pretoria. Chaskalson sought answers on the communication difficulties between senior officers at the security joint operations committee (JOC) and officers deployed on the ground.
“We know from the video evidence that the first deaths (of mineworkers) at scene 2 happened 10 minutes into the video. We can work out that between the report of ‘bodies down' and the first death at scene 2, there would have to be 14 minutes,” said Chaskalson.
“At the very least, between that (bodies down) communication and the first deaths there are quite possibly more than 14 minutes. Is that sufficient time for control to have been exercised from the JOC, to take stock and pause the operation?”
Scott said police procedure dictated that in such a scenario, confirmation would need to be sought first, regarding the information on the dead bodies.
“You still need to consult with your commanders on the ground because to simply tell them to stop, pause where they were would be naïve of the JOC.
"Police lives and other lives would be in danger,” he said.
“That time period would be sufficient (for the consultations).”
The commission also heard on Wednesday that a civilian was communicating on a stolen police handset radio. Chaskalson asked Scott why officers did not change to another channel, different from the protester.
“From the 14th (of August) the SAPS was aware that a radio had been stolen. Once a radio has been stolen, there is a risk of interference or interception with communication which is foreseeable.
“Was anything done to set up a protocol for shifting to a back-up channel if there was interference (from the stolen radio)?”
Scott said there was a back-up channel “which was supposed to be utilised if one channel went down”.
Chaskalson then asked why officers did not shift to that back-up channel when their communication went down for some minutes during the operation.
“It wasn't briefed (to officers) that we were expecting an interception of that kind. I can't recall it being pertinently briefed, I don't think we expected them (protesters) to use the police radio to jam the frequency,” said Scott.
The senior policeman faced several questions on why the officers did not migrate to a back-up channel, when their communication by police radios failed on August 16.
The inquiry, chaired by retired judge Ian Farlam, is investigating the deaths of 44 people during strike-related unrest at Lonmin platinum's operations at Marikana, near Rustenburg, last year.
The police shot dead 34 people, mostly striking mineworkers, wounded 70, and arrested 250 on August 16, 2012. In the preceding week, 10 people including two policemen and two security guards, were killed.
The hacked police officers were stripped of their handguns and radios.
Scott helped draft the police plan which was to be used to try and disperse and disarm the striking mineworkers. The plan was referred to as the "Scott plan".
Source : Sapa /jm/ks/jje
Date : 23 Oct 2013 14:43
A senior police officer was questioned on Wednesday about the SA Police Service's communication difficulties during the intervention to end the violent Marikana protest in Rustenburg last year.
Evidence leader Matthew Chaskalson SC was cross-examining Lt-Col Duncan Scott at the Marikana commission's public hearings in Pretoria. Chaskalson sought answers on the communication difficulties between senior officers at the security joint operations committee (JOC) and officers deployed on the ground.
“We know from the video evidence that the first deaths (of mineworkers) at scene 2 happened 10 minutes into the video. We can work out that between the report of ‘bodies down' and the first death at scene 2, there would have to be 14 minutes,” said Chaskalson.
“At the very least, between that (bodies down) communication and the first deaths there are quite possibly more than 14 minutes. Is that sufficient time for control to have been exercised from the JOC, to take stock and pause the operation?”
Scott said police procedure dictated that in such a scenario, confirmation would need to be sought first, regarding the information on the dead bodies.
“You still need to consult with your commanders on the ground because to simply tell them to stop, pause where they were would be naïve of the JOC.
"Police lives and other lives would be in danger,” he said.
“That time period would be sufficient (for the consultations).”
The commission also heard on Wednesday that a civilian was communicating on a stolen police handset radio. Chaskalson asked Scott why officers did not change to another channel, different from the protester.
“From the 14th (of August) the SAPS was aware that a radio had been stolen. Once a radio has been stolen, there is a risk of interference or interception with communication which is foreseeable.
“Was anything done to set up a protocol for shifting to a back-up channel if there was interference (from the stolen radio)?”
Scott said there was a back-up channel “which was supposed to be utilised if one channel went down”.
Chaskalson then asked why officers did not shift to that back-up channel when their communication went down for some minutes during the operation.
“It wasn't briefed (to officers) that we were expecting an interception of that kind. I can't recall it being pertinently briefed, I don't think we expected them (protesters) to use the police radio to jam the frequency,” said Scott.
The senior policeman faced several questions on why the officers did not migrate to a back-up channel, when their communication by police radios failed on August 16.
The inquiry, chaired by retired judge Ian Farlam, is investigating the deaths of 44 people during strike-related unrest at Lonmin platinum's operations at Marikana, near Rustenburg, last year.
The police shot dead 34 people, mostly striking mineworkers, wounded 70, and arrested 250 on August 16, 2012. In the preceding week, 10 people including two policemen and two security guards, were killed.
The hacked police officers were stripped of their handguns and radios.
Scott helped draft the police plan which was to be used to try and disperse and disarm the striking mineworkers. The plan was referred to as the "Scott plan".
Source : Sapa /jm/ks/jje
Date : 23 Oct 2013 14:43
ToxicBunny
Oi! Leave me out of this...
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2006
- Messages
- 113,505
**Had been posted already**
Have watched the new video, and I can honestly say my opinion remains the same, these idiot miners had weapons drawn and fired at the police.. what did they expect the police would do in response to it.
Have watched the new video, and I can honestly say my opinion remains the same, these idiot miners had weapons drawn and fired at the police.. what did they expect the police would do in response to it.
Last edited:
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2005
- Messages
- 105,603
Marikana funding: Legal Aid to appeal
Legal Aid SA will challenge a court ruling compelling it to fund the legal representation of injured and arrested Marikana miners, CEO Vidhu Vedalankar said on Tuesday.
"We stand by our view that the judgment will have an effect on the sustainability of the organisation in providing access to justice in criminal and civil legal aid matters for the poor and vulnerable."
Vedalankar said the organisation had been advised that the legal team representing the miners at the Farlam Commission of Inquiry would make an application for an order compelling it to comply with the high court's order.
Legal Aid SA would not oppose the order to fund the miners pending the finalisation of the appeal process, she said.
In October, Vedalankar told Parliament Legal Aid SA would need R17 million to honour the court's judgment.
"The new total of our exposure in Marikana is R17m if we take into account the judgment," Vedalankar told Parliament's portfolio committee on justice.
On October 14, Judge Tati Makgoka of the High Court in Pretoria set aside Legal Aid SA's refusal to pay for representation for miners.
He ordered it to take immediate steps to provide legal funding for their participation before the commission, and also to pay their costs.
Vedalankar said that so far Legal Aid SA had spent R2m representing the families of the miners who died last year when police opened fire on striking workers at the platinum mine.
The required amount of R17m would cover the extended representation until the end of the current financial year, she said.
The organisation would have to scale back on its support to others who needed legal representation, because it did not have the additional funding for Marikana in its R1.4 billion budget.
"We don't have that money, so we will have to cut back on some of the other items."
It was briefing the committee on its annual report.
The inquiry is investigating the circumstances surrounding the deaths of 44 people during strike-related unrest at Lonmin Platinum's operations at Marikana, near Rustenburg in North West last year.
The police shot dead 34 people, mostly striking workers, wounded 70, and arrested 250 on August 16, 2012.
In the preceding week, 10 people died, including two policemen and two security guards.
Source : Sapa /mr/ef/jje/cls/hdw
Date : 05 Nov 2013 14:28
Legal Aid SA will challenge a court ruling compelling it to fund the legal representation of injured and arrested Marikana miners, CEO Vidhu Vedalankar said on Tuesday.
"We stand by our view that the judgment will have an effect on the sustainability of the organisation in providing access to justice in criminal and civil legal aid matters for the poor and vulnerable."
Vedalankar said the organisation had been advised that the legal team representing the miners at the Farlam Commission of Inquiry would make an application for an order compelling it to comply with the high court's order.
Legal Aid SA would not oppose the order to fund the miners pending the finalisation of the appeal process, she said.
In October, Vedalankar told Parliament Legal Aid SA would need R17 million to honour the court's judgment.
"The new total of our exposure in Marikana is R17m if we take into account the judgment," Vedalankar told Parliament's portfolio committee on justice.
On October 14, Judge Tati Makgoka of the High Court in Pretoria set aside Legal Aid SA's refusal to pay for representation for miners.
He ordered it to take immediate steps to provide legal funding for their participation before the commission, and also to pay their costs.
Vedalankar said that so far Legal Aid SA had spent R2m representing the families of the miners who died last year when police opened fire on striking workers at the platinum mine.
The required amount of R17m would cover the extended representation until the end of the current financial year, she said.
The organisation would have to scale back on its support to others who needed legal representation, because it did not have the additional funding for Marikana in its R1.4 billion budget.
"We don't have that money, so we will have to cut back on some of the other items."
It was briefing the committee on its annual report.
The inquiry is investigating the circumstances surrounding the deaths of 44 people during strike-related unrest at Lonmin Platinum's operations at Marikana, near Rustenburg in North West last year.
The police shot dead 34 people, mostly striking workers, wounded 70, and arrested 250 on August 16, 2012.
In the preceding week, 10 people died, including two policemen and two security guards.
Source : Sapa /mr/ef/jje/cls/hdw
Date : 05 Nov 2013 14:28
daveza
Honorary Master
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2004
- Messages
- 47,671
http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2014/01/16/marikana-miners-were-peaceful-says-lawyer-mpofu
Is this Mpofu blind, stupid or just thinks everyone else is both ?
Is this Mpofu blind, stupid or just thinks everyone else is both ?
OrbitalDawn
Ulysses Everett McGill
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 47,031
Maybe he choked on his EFF beret and they translated it as this.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2005
- Messages
- 105,603
yes.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2005
- Messages
- 105,603
Police not co-operating with Farlam Commission: Budlender
Farlam Commission of Inquiry evidence leader Geoff Budlender SC, accused the police on Friday of not co-operating with the commission.
The SA Police Service (SAPS) had failed to submit numerous documents and recordings requested by evidence leaders, said Budlender.
Preparations for cross-examining the inquiry's next witness, North West police chief Lt-Gen Zukiswa Mbombo, had been hindered because of the lack of adequate documents relating to the police intervention at Marikana in August 2012.
"We require, for the purpose of the evidence of Lt-Gen Mbombo, material relating to the national management forum meeting which was held on August 15, 2012, and what was called the extra-ordinary session. We have been attempting to obtain this relevant material without success," said Budlender.
"This is not a complaint about lack of co-operation by our colleagues in the SAPS legal team, but I'm afraid there has been a lack of co-operation by their client, the SAPS."
He said the SAPS legal team at the commission had tried in vain to acquire the evidence on behalf of the evidence leaders.
"We are hindered in our preparation for the evidence of Lt-Gen Mbombo and that fact means we are hindered in our ability to assist the commission in its function.
"We have tried to resolve this matter, but unfortunately our efforts have not succeeded. We ask for the commission to intervene and address the matter," said Budlender.
The evidence leaders needed information, including agenda papers and packs, which was distributed to members of the police national management forum before a meeting on August 15, 2012.
A tape recording of a meeting of the national management forum, held on the same day, was also requested, but was also not supplied.
"We have been told that the meeting was recorded and the recording has been preserved. We requested the recording on November 17 last year; we have been requesting since then," said Budlender.
Ishmael Semenya SC, for the SAPS, said he would convey the complaint to national police commissioner Riah Phiyega.
The commission, which is chaired by retired judge Ian Farlam, is probing the circumstances surrounding the deaths of 44 people during labour-related unrest at Lonmin's platinum mining operations at Marikana, near Rustenburg, in North West.
On August 16, 2012, 34 people, mostly striking miners, were shot dead and 78 people were wounded when the police fired on a group gathered at a hill near the mine while attempting to disperse and disarm them.
In the preceding week, 10 people, including two policemen and two security guards, were killed in unrest-related violence.
President Jacob Zuma appointed the commission of inquiry in August 2012, to establish the facts about violence at the mine that also resulted in 250 arrests.
Zuma announced far-reaching terms of reference for the three-member commission. Among other things, it would probe the conduct of the SAPS and look at the nature, extent and application of any standing orders, policy considerations, legislation or other instructions in the interventions to deal with the situation at Marikana.
Source : Sapa /jm/jk/cls
Date : 17 Jan 2014 13:06
Farlam Commission of Inquiry evidence leader Geoff Budlender SC, accused the police on Friday of not co-operating with the commission.
The SA Police Service (SAPS) had failed to submit numerous documents and recordings requested by evidence leaders, said Budlender.
Preparations for cross-examining the inquiry's next witness, North West police chief Lt-Gen Zukiswa Mbombo, had been hindered because of the lack of adequate documents relating to the police intervention at Marikana in August 2012.
"We require, for the purpose of the evidence of Lt-Gen Mbombo, material relating to the national management forum meeting which was held on August 15, 2012, and what was called the extra-ordinary session. We have been attempting to obtain this relevant material without success," said Budlender.
"This is not a complaint about lack of co-operation by our colleagues in the SAPS legal team, but I'm afraid there has been a lack of co-operation by their client, the SAPS."
He said the SAPS legal team at the commission had tried in vain to acquire the evidence on behalf of the evidence leaders.
"We are hindered in our preparation for the evidence of Lt-Gen Mbombo and that fact means we are hindered in our ability to assist the commission in its function.
"We have tried to resolve this matter, but unfortunately our efforts have not succeeded. We ask for the commission to intervene and address the matter," said Budlender.
The evidence leaders needed information, including agenda papers and packs, which was distributed to members of the police national management forum before a meeting on August 15, 2012.
A tape recording of a meeting of the national management forum, held on the same day, was also requested, but was also not supplied.
"We have been told that the meeting was recorded and the recording has been preserved. We requested the recording on November 17 last year; we have been requesting since then," said Budlender.
Ishmael Semenya SC, for the SAPS, said he would convey the complaint to national police commissioner Riah Phiyega.
The commission, which is chaired by retired judge Ian Farlam, is probing the circumstances surrounding the deaths of 44 people during labour-related unrest at Lonmin's platinum mining operations at Marikana, near Rustenburg, in North West.
On August 16, 2012, 34 people, mostly striking miners, were shot dead and 78 people were wounded when the police fired on a group gathered at a hill near the mine while attempting to disperse and disarm them.
In the preceding week, 10 people, including two policemen and two security guards, were killed in unrest-related violence.
President Jacob Zuma appointed the commission of inquiry in August 2012, to establish the facts about violence at the mine that also resulted in 250 arrests.
Zuma announced far-reaching terms of reference for the three-member commission. Among other things, it would probe the conduct of the SAPS and look at the nature, extent and application of any standing orders, policy considerations, legislation or other instructions in the interventions to deal with the situation at Marikana.
Source : Sapa /jm/jk/cls
Date : 17 Jan 2014 13:06
OrbitalDawn
Ulysses Everett McGill
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 47,031
The police really haven't showered themselves with glory during this proceeding.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2005
- Messages
- 105,603
Farlam demands police co-operation
National police chief Riah Phiyega may be called to explain why documents and a recording requested by evidence leaders at the Farlam Commission of Inquiry were not supplied.
On Friday, commission chairman retired judge Ian Farlam told counsel for the police he expected full co-operation in the ongoing probe into the Marikana tragedy.
"We were promised full co-operation when this commission was appointed," Farlam said in Pretoria, where the commission is holding its public hearings.
"Would you convey to your clients that this is co-operation which we require," Farlam told Ishmael Semenya SC, for the police.
He said that on the face of it, the co-operation from the police did not appear to be what the commission had been promised.
"If that material is not made available to us, I expect the national commissioner to appear before us in person to explain the reason for the lack of co-operation."
Farlam's remarks following a complaint lodged on Friday by the head of the evidence leaders at the inquiry, Geoff Budlender SC.
Budlender said the police had not submitted numerous documents and a recording requested by the evidence leaders in relation to the Marikana investigation.
He said preparations for the cross-examination of the inquiry's next witness, North West police chief Lt-Gen Zukiswa Mbombo, had been hindered because of the lack of critical evidence in the possession of the SA Police Service (SAPS).
"We require, for the purpose of the evidence of Lt-Gen Mbombo, material relating to the national management forum meeting which was held on August 15, 2012 and what was called the extra-ordinary session. We have been attempting to obtain this relevant material without success," said Budlender.
"This is not a complaint about lack of co-operation by our colleagues in the SAPS legal team, but I'm afraid there has been a lack of co-operation by their client, the SAPS."
Budlender said the SAPS legal team at the commission had attempted in vain to acquire the evidence on behalf of the evidence leaders.
"We are hindered in our preparation for the evidence of Lt-Gen Mbombo and that fact means we are hindered in our ability to assist the commission in its function." he said.
"We have tried to resolve this matter but unfortunately our efforts have not succeeded. We ask for the commission to intervene and address the matter."
He said the evidence leaders needed information including agenda papers and packs which was distributed to members of the police national management forum before a meeting of August 15, 2012.
A tape recording of a meeting of the national management forum, held on the same day, was requested but was also not supplied.
"We have been told that the meeting was recorded and the recording has been preserved. We requested the recording on November 17 last year, we have been requesting since then," said Budlender.
Semenya said he would convey the complaint to Phiyega.
The commission is probing the circumstances surrounding the deaths of 44 people during labour-related unrest at Lonmin's platinum mining operations at Marikana, near Rustenburg, North West.
On August 16, 2012, 34 people, mostly striking miners, were shot dead and 78 people were wounded when the police fired on a group gathered at a hill near the mine while attempting to disperse and disarm them.
In the preceding week, 10 people, including two policemen and two security guards, were killed in unrest-related violence.
Source : Sapa /jm/hdw/cls/jk
Date : 17 Jan 2014 14:05
National police chief Riah Phiyega may be called to explain why documents and a recording requested by evidence leaders at the Farlam Commission of Inquiry were not supplied.
On Friday, commission chairman retired judge Ian Farlam told counsel for the police he expected full co-operation in the ongoing probe into the Marikana tragedy.
"We were promised full co-operation when this commission was appointed," Farlam said in Pretoria, where the commission is holding its public hearings.
"Would you convey to your clients that this is co-operation which we require," Farlam told Ishmael Semenya SC, for the police.
He said that on the face of it, the co-operation from the police did not appear to be what the commission had been promised.
"If that material is not made available to us, I expect the national commissioner to appear before us in person to explain the reason for the lack of co-operation."
Farlam's remarks following a complaint lodged on Friday by the head of the evidence leaders at the inquiry, Geoff Budlender SC.
Budlender said the police had not submitted numerous documents and a recording requested by the evidence leaders in relation to the Marikana investigation.
He said preparations for the cross-examination of the inquiry's next witness, North West police chief Lt-Gen Zukiswa Mbombo, had been hindered because of the lack of critical evidence in the possession of the SA Police Service (SAPS).
"We require, for the purpose of the evidence of Lt-Gen Mbombo, material relating to the national management forum meeting which was held on August 15, 2012 and what was called the extra-ordinary session. We have been attempting to obtain this relevant material without success," said Budlender.
"This is not a complaint about lack of co-operation by our colleagues in the SAPS legal team, but I'm afraid there has been a lack of co-operation by their client, the SAPS."
Budlender said the SAPS legal team at the commission had attempted in vain to acquire the evidence on behalf of the evidence leaders.
"We are hindered in our preparation for the evidence of Lt-Gen Mbombo and that fact means we are hindered in our ability to assist the commission in its function." he said.
"We have tried to resolve this matter but unfortunately our efforts have not succeeded. We ask for the commission to intervene and address the matter."
He said the evidence leaders needed information including agenda papers and packs which was distributed to members of the police national management forum before a meeting of August 15, 2012.
A tape recording of a meeting of the national management forum, held on the same day, was requested but was also not supplied.
"We have been told that the meeting was recorded and the recording has been preserved. We requested the recording on November 17 last year, we have been requesting since then," said Budlender.
Semenya said he would convey the complaint to Phiyega.
The commission is probing the circumstances surrounding the deaths of 44 people during labour-related unrest at Lonmin's platinum mining operations at Marikana, near Rustenburg, North West.
On August 16, 2012, 34 people, mostly striking miners, were shot dead and 78 people were wounded when the police fired on a group gathered at a hill near the mine while attempting to disperse and disarm them.
In the preceding week, 10 people, including two policemen and two security guards, were killed in unrest-related violence.
Source : Sapa /jm/hdw/cls/jk
Date : 17 Jan 2014 14:05
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2005
- Messages
- 105,603
Marikana cops 'poisoned' minds
The operational police commander during the Marikana shootings coached the evidence of subordinates on the event in 2012, the Farlam Commission of Inquiry heard on Tuesday.
Dali Mpofu, SC, representing wounded and arrested Lonmin miners at the inquiry, examined Brigadier Adriaan Calitz regarding the senior policeman's address to police units which had been involved in the shooting at Marikana.
“One of the things I am going to argue about what you said at that parade is that it was intended to poison the minds of the police by suggesting what the official (police) line is,” said Mpofu.
“You were saying there is going to be this commission and our line is going to be self-defence. Your intention was to disseminate to the group that your defence (at Marikana) was self-defence.”
Mpofu read out extracts from Calitz's speech to his subordinates, shortly after President Jacob Zuma established the three-member commission of inquiry led by retired judge Ian Farlam in August 2012.
“Self-defence, alright? So on that nothing, nothing was wrong. You acted and it was justified, and that is the commitment and co-operation that we are going to give to the people (commission),” Mpofu read a transcript of Calitz's speech.
“What you were doing here was to say to the people (police), this is what happened. You were saying to them, what I have just told you now is exactly the commitment we are going to give to the commission of inquiry.”
Calitz denied the allegations of ‘schooling' the junior officers.
“I told them you have nothing to hide, specifically to the TRT (tactical response team),” he said.
Unconvinced, Mpofu went on: “In pursuance of that argument, I am going to argue that there was no need for you to spell things out, apart from trying to be schooling these people on what they have to say to the commission.
"These people were there after all. You suggested the theory of self-defence to the members. You were schooling them,” said Mpofu.
Calitz said he went into a narration for the benefit of new officers who had joined the parade.
“If you look at my track record, there was never a time I was accused of doing such things. I totally disagree with you,” he said.
Mpofu said Calitz told his charges to tell the truth to the commission, not because of principle but simply because the Local Criminal Record Centre (LCRC) had gathered accurate information from the scene.
He read another extract from Calitz's speech: “If you shot 25 R5 (rifle bullets), then say you shot 25. If you had one magazine and it was necessary to put a second, then say so. Why? Because the LCRC was on the scene, they have already retrieved the cartridges.
“The newspaper today is saying 400 cartridges picked up, it is useless that you say I only fired two shots. Do you understand what I am saying?”
Calitz insisted that “as a good commander”, he was only urging his charges to co-operate with the inquiry.
“I didn't even know this video was coming to the commission. It was an address to my members. I believe that after that speech, all of them gave honestly what they knew to the commission (through sworn statements).”
Calitz was the operational police commander during the protracted wage-related strike at Marikana, near Rustenburg.
The commission, led by retired judge Ian Farlam, is probing the deaths of 44 people during labour-related unrest at Lonmin's platinum mining operations at Marikana.
On August 16, 2012, 34 people, mostly striking miners, were shot dead and 78 people were wounded when the police fired on a group gathered at a hill near the mine. They were trying to disperse and disarm them.
In the preceding week, 10 people, including two policemen and two security guards, were killed in strike-related violence.
Source : Sapa /jm/tk/ks/jje
Date : 21 Jan 2014 14:32
The operational police commander during the Marikana shootings coached the evidence of subordinates on the event in 2012, the Farlam Commission of Inquiry heard on Tuesday.
Dali Mpofu, SC, representing wounded and arrested Lonmin miners at the inquiry, examined Brigadier Adriaan Calitz regarding the senior policeman's address to police units which had been involved in the shooting at Marikana.
“One of the things I am going to argue about what you said at that parade is that it was intended to poison the minds of the police by suggesting what the official (police) line is,” said Mpofu.
“You were saying there is going to be this commission and our line is going to be self-defence. Your intention was to disseminate to the group that your defence (at Marikana) was self-defence.”
Mpofu read out extracts from Calitz's speech to his subordinates, shortly after President Jacob Zuma established the three-member commission of inquiry led by retired judge Ian Farlam in August 2012.
“Self-defence, alright? So on that nothing, nothing was wrong. You acted and it was justified, and that is the commitment and co-operation that we are going to give to the people (commission),” Mpofu read a transcript of Calitz's speech.
“What you were doing here was to say to the people (police), this is what happened. You were saying to them, what I have just told you now is exactly the commitment we are going to give to the commission of inquiry.”
Calitz denied the allegations of ‘schooling' the junior officers.
“I told them you have nothing to hide, specifically to the TRT (tactical response team),” he said.
Unconvinced, Mpofu went on: “In pursuance of that argument, I am going to argue that there was no need for you to spell things out, apart from trying to be schooling these people on what they have to say to the commission.
"These people were there after all. You suggested the theory of self-defence to the members. You were schooling them,” said Mpofu.
Calitz said he went into a narration for the benefit of new officers who had joined the parade.
“If you look at my track record, there was never a time I was accused of doing such things. I totally disagree with you,” he said.
Mpofu said Calitz told his charges to tell the truth to the commission, not because of principle but simply because the Local Criminal Record Centre (LCRC) had gathered accurate information from the scene.
He read another extract from Calitz's speech: “If you shot 25 R5 (rifle bullets), then say you shot 25. If you had one magazine and it was necessary to put a second, then say so. Why? Because the LCRC was on the scene, they have already retrieved the cartridges.
“The newspaper today is saying 400 cartridges picked up, it is useless that you say I only fired two shots. Do you understand what I am saying?”
Calitz insisted that “as a good commander”, he was only urging his charges to co-operate with the inquiry.
“I didn't even know this video was coming to the commission. It was an address to my members. I believe that after that speech, all of them gave honestly what they knew to the commission (through sworn statements).”
Calitz was the operational police commander during the protracted wage-related strike at Marikana, near Rustenburg.
The commission, led by retired judge Ian Farlam, is probing the deaths of 44 people during labour-related unrest at Lonmin's platinum mining operations at Marikana.
On August 16, 2012, 34 people, mostly striking miners, were shot dead and 78 people were wounded when the police fired on a group gathered at a hill near the mine. They were trying to disperse and disarm them.
In the preceding week, 10 people, including two policemen and two security guards, were killed in strike-related violence.
Source : Sapa /jm/tk/ks/jje
Date : 21 Jan 2014 14:32
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2005
- Messages
- 105,603
Charge Marikana cop with murder: Mpofu
The operational police commander during the Marikana shootings must be charged with murder, the Farlam Commission of Inquiry heard on Tuesday.
Dali Mpofu, SC, representing the wounded and arrested Lonmin miners at the inquiry, said Brigadier Adriaan Calitz issued orders that his clients be killed and he should now face the consequences.
"This commission... is duty bound to make recommendations for criminal prosecutions. I will recommend that you, among other people, be charged with murder of at least the people killed at scene one," Mpofu said.
"You gave the instructions to kill. I have been trying to demonstrate to you that such killing was not reasonably justified. Your instructions would attract the charge of murder."
Calitz said his hands were clean and he did not agree with Mpofu.
"I can only say I differ totally from what you are saying... .The murders that you are speaking about are (recorded) clearly on video. No instructions were given there and that is referred to as self-defence," said Calitz.
The commission, led by retired judge Ian Farlam, is probing the deaths of 44 people during labour unrest at Lonmin's platinum mining operations at Marikana.
On August 16, 2012, 34 people, mostly striking miners, were shot dead and 78 people were wounded when the police fired on a group gathered at a hill near the mine. They were trying to disperse and disarm them. In the preceding week, 10 people, including two policemen and two security guards, were killed in strike-related violence.
Earlier, Mpofu said Calitz had coached the police officers who were involved in the Marikana shootings.
"One of the things I am going to argue about what you said at that parade is that it was intended to poison the minds of the police by suggesting what the official (police) line is," Mpofu said.
"You were saying there is going to be this commission and our line is going to be self-defence. Your intention was to disseminate to the group that your defence (at Marikana) was self-defence."
Mpofu read out extracts from Calitz's speech to his subordinates, which he made shortly after President Jacob Zuma established the three-member commission of inquiry in August 2012.
"Self-defence, alright? So on that nothing, nothing was wrong. You acted and it was justified, and that is the commitment and co-operation that we are going to give to the people (commission)," Mpofu read from a transcript of Calitz's speech.
"What you were doing here was to say to the people (police), this is what happened. You were saying to them, what I have just told you now is exactly the commitment we are going to give to the commission of inquiry."
Calitz denied "schooling" the junior officers.
"I told them you have nothing to hide, specifically to the TRT (tactical response team)," he said.
Unconvinced, Mpofu went on: "In pursuance of that argument, I am going to argue that there was no need for you to spell things out, apart from trying to be schooling these people on what they have to say to the commission.
"These people were there after all. You suggested the theory of self-defence to the members. You were schooling them," said Mpofu.
Calitz said he made the remarks for the benefit of new officers who had joined the parade.
Source : Sapa /jm/tk/ks/th
Date : 21 Jan 2014 16:31
The operational police commander during the Marikana shootings must be charged with murder, the Farlam Commission of Inquiry heard on Tuesday.
Dali Mpofu, SC, representing the wounded and arrested Lonmin miners at the inquiry, said Brigadier Adriaan Calitz issued orders that his clients be killed and he should now face the consequences.
"This commission... is duty bound to make recommendations for criminal prosecutions. I will recommend that you, among other people, be charged with murder of at least the people killed at scene one," Mpofu said.
"You gave the instructions to kill. I have been trying to demonstrate to you that such killing was not reasonably justified. Your instructions would attract the charge of murder."
Calitz said his hands were clean and he did not agree with Mpofu.
"I can only say I differ totally from what you are saying... .The murders that you are speaking about are (recorded) clearly on video. No instructions were given there and that is referred to as self-defence," said Calitz.
The commission, led by retired judge Ian Farlam, is probing the deaths of 44 people during labour unrest at Lonmin's platinum mining operations at Marikana.
On August 16, 2012, 34 people, mostly striking miners, were shot dead and 78 people were wounded when the police fired on a group gathered at a hill near the mine. They were trying to disperse and disarm them. In the preceding week, 10 people, including two policemen and two security guards, were killed in strike-related violence.
Earlier, Mpofu said Calitz had coached the police officers who were involved in the Marikana shootings.
"One of the things I am going to argue about what you said at that parade is that it was intended to poison the minds of the police by suggesting what the official (police) line is," Mpofu said.
"You were saying there is going to be this commission and our line is going to be self-defence. Your intention was to disseminate to the group that your defence (at Marikana) was self-defence."
Mpofu read out extracts from Calitz's speech to his subordinates, which he made shortly after President Jacob Zuma established the three-member commission of inquiry in August 2012.
"Self-defence, alright? So on that nothing, nothing was wrong. You acted and it was justified, and that is the commitment and co-operation that we are going to give to the people (commission)," Mpofu read from a transcript of Calitz's speech.
"What you were doing here was to say to the people (police), this is what happened. You were saying to them, what I have just told you now is exactly the commitment we are going to give to the commission of inquiry."
Calitz denied "schooling" the junior officers.
"I told them you have nothing to hide, specifically to the TRT (tactical response team)," he said.
Unconvinced, Mpofu went on: "In pursuance of that argument, I am going to argue that there was no need for you to spell things out, apart from trying to be schooling these people on what they have to say to the commission.
"These people were there after all. You suggested the theory of self-defence to the members. You were schooling them," said Mpofu.
Calitz said he made the remarks for the benefit of new officers who had joined the parade.
Source : Sapa /jm/tk/ks/th
Date : 21 Jan 2014 16:31
daveza
Honorary Master
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http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2014/02/18/marikana-cops-failed-their-firearms-training
I have no sympathy for the Marikana criminals, but why are police who failed their firearms training allowed to carry firearms ?
I have no sympathy for the Marikana criminals, but why are police who failed their firearms training allowed to carry firearms ?
Necuno
Court Jester
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- Sep 27, 2005
- Messages
- 58,567
Cause training costs money?
As previously said, I think that SAPS should also go and do basic (army) before even beginning with police training. Surely if you handle a gun you should not only know the gun, but what is going in there and how it is going to come out.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
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- Mar 17, 2005
- Messages
- 105,603
The commissioner was scathing about how the police refused Julius access to the strikers for fear that he would get credit for diffusing the crisis. He felt ending the crisis would have been a good thing whether it was done by Malema or whoever but the police blocked him for ANC reasons.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2005
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- 105,603
Marikana families weel
A woman wept at the Farlam Commission of Inquiry on Thursday as North West police chief Lt-Gen Zukiswa Mbombo extended an olive branch to victims of the August 2012 Marikana shootings.
After testifying at the inquiry, being held at the Tshwane municipal chambers, Mbombo asked to address the commission.
"To all the people who lost their loved ones, to those who were injured, I want to say the police have a responsibility to protect," Mbombo said.
"Killing people is not an intention of the police. My plea to all the people of this country is that do not turn you backs against police. My other plea to South Africans is that we should help one another, to help the police when they encounter such problems."
Family members of the victims started leaving the auditorium as Mbombo spoke, prompting commission chairman, retired judge Ian Farlam, to issue a warning.
"People who are leaving the chamber must please be quiet. I don't want disturbances of this kind," he said.
A woman wailed and was escorted out of the chambers by other women.
Mbombo concluded her evidence to the commission and another police witness was scheduled to take the stand on Thursday afternoon.
Earlier, Mbombo said police did not expect that protesting Lonmin mineworkers would be killed in police operations during the wage-related unrest in Marikana, North West, in August 2012.
"We had our regulations to disarm and arrest the people."
She said police would not have proceeded with their operation had they known people would be killed.
"We did not want to see any bloodshed. We did not want anyone to die. We knew that these people were armed and had already killed certain people, but we were not hoping for bloodshed."
Mbombo was being re-examined by Ishmael Semenya, for the SA Police Service.
Semenya asked Mbombo to explain what would have happened on August 16, 2012 if the protesters had not "attacked" the police.
Mbombo said, in her view, there would not have been any casualties.
Farlam reminded Semenya that it had not been ascertained whether the protesters had attacked the police.
"You know that it is an area of dispute at the moment, whether the strikers were actually attacking the police or were endeavouring to get through to Nkaneng [informal settlement]. You can't put the question across as if that is an established fact.
"It is one of the matters which will be argued in the end and this commission will have to make a finding," said Farlam.
The commission is probing the deaths of 44 people at Lonmin's platinum mining operations in Marikana, near Rustenburg.
On August 16, 2012, 34 people, mostly striking miners, were shot dead and 78 people were wounded when police fired on a group gathered at a hill near the mine. In the preceding week, 10 people, including two policemen and two security guards, were killed in the strike-related violence.
President Jacob Zuma established the inquiry shortly after the shootings.
Source : Sapa /jm/jlb/hdw/jk/th
Date : 20 Feb 2014 14:23
A woman wept at the Farlam Commission of Inquiry on Thursday as North West police chief Lt-Gen Zukiswa Mbombo extended an olive branch to victims of the August 2012 Marikana shootings.
After testifying at the inquiry, being held at the Tshwane municipal chambers, Mbombo asked to address the commission.
"To all the people who lost their loved ones, to those who were injured, I want to say the police have a responsibility to protect," Mbombo said.
"Killing people is not an intention of the police. My plea to all the people of this country is that do not turn you backs against police. My other plea to South Africans is that we should help one another, to help the police when they encounter such problems."
Family members of the victims started leaving the auditorium as Mbombo spoke, prompting commission chairman, retired judge Ian Farlam, to issue a warning.
"People who are leaving the chamber must please be quiet. I don't want disturbances of this kind," he said.
A woman wailed and was escorted out of the chambers by other women.
Mbombo concluded her evidence to the commission and another police witness was scheduled to take the stand on Thursday afternoon.
Earlier, Mbombo said police did not expect that protesting Lonmin mineworkers would be killed in police operations during the wage-related unrest in Marikana, North West, in August 2012.
"We had our regulations to disarm and arrest the people."
She said police would not have proceeded with their operation had they known people would be killed.
"We did not want to see any bloodshed. We did not want anyone to die. We knew that these people were armed and had already killed certain people, but we were not hoping for bloodshed."
Mbombo was being re-examined by Ishmael Semenya, for the SA Police Service.
Semenya asked Mbombo to explain what would have happened on August 16, 2012 if the protesters had not "attacked" the police.
Mbombo said, in her view, there would not have been any casualties.
Farlam reminded Semenya that it had not been ascertained whether the protesters had attacked the police.
"You know that it is an area of dispute at the moment, whether the strikers were actually attacking the police or were endeavouring to get through to Nkaneng [informal settlement]. You can't put the question across as if that is an established fact.
"It is one of the matters which will be argued in the end and this commission will have to make a finding," said Farlam.
The commission is probing the deaths of 44 people at Lonmin's platinum mining operations in Marikana, near Rustenburg.
On August 16, 2012, 34 people, mostly striking miners, were shot dead and 78 people were wounded when police fired on a group gathered at a hill near the mine. In the preceding week, 10 people, including two policemen and two security guards, were killed in the strike-related violence.
President Jacob Zuma established the inquiry shortly after the shootings.
Source : Sapa /jm/jlb/hdw/jk/th
Date : 20 Feb 2014 14:23
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
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- Mar 17, 2005
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- 105,603
Marikana families in EFF regalia
Families of slain Marikana miners arrived at the Farlam Commission of Inquiry in Pretoria on Monday dressed in red EFF-branded berets and T-shirts.
The relatives were mainly widows of Lonmin miners shot dead on August 16, 2012. The Economic Freedom Fighters T-shirts had the party's logo and the words: "Economic freedom in our lifetime" and "Vote EFF".
On Monday, North West deputy provincial commissioner Major-General Ganasen Naidoo said when he heard "people were down" he thought mineworkers had fallen during a stampede.
He was cross-examined by evidence leader Matthew Chaskalson SC.
"You told this commission that the mental picture you had (on August 16, 2012) was that you were dealing with injuries from falls from a stampede. Do you stand by that evidence?" Chaskalson asked.
Naidoo responded: "I don't think we ever conceived that there would be a shooting of that scale. We did plan for a dispersal and my response was to deal with a possibility that people were injured in that dispersal.
"Regarding the magnitude (of the injuries), at that stage that was not the picture which I had in my mind."
Chaskalson asked Naidoo to explain how he had heard the volley of R5 rifle fire yet he did not contemplate that some of the protesters were critically injured or killed.
"It was an unexpected volley of gunfire I did not anticipate. I was responding to information which I had, which had only said people were down. I can't indicate to this commission what I perceived at the time, when I didn't know," Naidoo said.
The commission, sitting in Pretoria and led by retired judge Ian Farlam, is probing the deaths of 44 people at Lonmin's platinum mining operations in Marikana, near Rustenburg. On August 16, 2012, 34 people, mostly striking miners, were shot dead and 78 people were wounded when police fired on a group gathered at a hill near the mine. In the preceding week, 10 people, including two policemen and two security guards, were killed in the strike-related violence.
President Jacob Zuma established the inquiry shortly after the shootings.
Source : Sapa /jm/jlb/th/jje
Date : 24 Feb 2014 14:33
Families of slain Marikana miners arrived at the Farlam Commission of Inquiry in Pretoria on Monday dressed in red EFF-branded berets and T-shirts.
The relatives were mainly widows of Lonmin miners shot dead on August 16, 2012. The Economic Freedom Fighters T-shirts had the party's logo and the words: "Economic freedom in our lifetime" and "Vote EFF".
On Monday, North West deputy provincial commissioner Major-General Ganasen Naidoo said when he heard "people were down" he thought mineworkers had fallen during a stampede.
He was cross-examined by evidence leader Matthew Chaskalson SC.
"You told this commission that the mental picture you had (on August 16, 2012) was that you were dealing with injuries from falls from a stampede. Do you stand by that evidence?" Chaskalson asked.
Naidoo responded: "I don't think we ever conceived that there would be a shooting of that scale. We did plan for a dispersal and my response was to deal with a possibility that people were injured in that dispersal.
"Regarding the magnitude (of the injuries), at that stage that was not the picture which I had in my mind."
Chaskalson asked Naidoo to explain how he had heard the volley of R5 rifle fire yet he did not contemplate that some of the protesters were critically injured or killed.
"It was an unexpected volley of gunfire I did not anticipate. I was responding to information which I had, which had only said people were down. I can't indicate to this commission what I perceived at the time, when I didn't know," Naidoo said.
The commission, sitting in Pretoria and led by retired judge Ian Farlam, is probing the deaths of 44 people at Lonmin's platinum mining operations in Marikana, near Rustenburg. On August 16, 2012, 34 people, mostly striking miners, were shot dead and 78 people were wounded when police fired on a group gathered at a hill near the mine. In the preceding week, 10 people, including two policemen and two security guards, were killed in the strike-related violence.
President Jacob Zuma established the inquiry shortly after the shootings.
Source : Sapa /jm/jlb/th/jje
Date : 24 Feb 2014 14:33