Marikana Shootings Farlam Commission Thread

[Nerfherder]

The thing I don't get about Marikana

The striking workers were armed with deadly weapons like kieries, pangas, knives, guns, spears, etc

They intimidated innocent people with violence.

They attacked police and security personnel

But they are the victims

???

They are the victims because they ended up dead. They are Martyrs

 

[Zophos]

 

[mojoman]

lol...

While the official programme has kicked off with entertainment, Amcu leaders are yet to arrive.

Slow start as hundreds gather for commemoration ceremony of Marikana Massacre

The organising union, Amcu, was hoping to amass over 25,000 people to observe the commemoration of the 10th anniversary of the Marikana Massacre but at the moment, the crowd is far from that target.

ewn.co.za

 

[3WA]

RIP dear innocent rabbit. You were too good for this world.

Surviving mineworkers blame rabbit killing for shooting: report

Mineworkers at Lonmin's Marikana mine believe the killing of a rabbit was the reason why the shooting happened, according to a report on Saturday. The surviving mineworkers claimed that the medicine man who was alleged to have told them his muti would make them invincible had warned them not to...

www.timeslive.co.za

 

[mojoman]

RIP dear innocent rabbit. You were too good for this world.

Surviving mineworkers blame rabbit killing for shooting: report

Mineworkers at Lonmin's Marikana mine believe the killing of a rabbit was the reason why the shooting happened, according to a report on Saturday. The surviving mineworkers claimed that the medicine man who was alleged to have told them his muti would make them invincible had warned them not to...

www.timeslive.co.za

Thick as bricks....

 

[DreamKing]

10 years ........

 

[Glock26]

Bunch of aggressive militants armed with everything from spears to firearms kills a few people in the days preceding....then decide en-masse to charge at the police, and even fire shots at the police (proven in pics) and when the police open fire as any person is entitled to do when their lives are in danger....they are suddenly the victims and the world must shed tears for them.
Yeah...maybe not.
My boss earns 5 times what I do. I feel I deserve more pay. But last time I checked, I am not allowed to grab the industrial stapler and charge at him in his office demanding more pay.
Sorry, you won't catch me blaming the cops on this one. It's about time society pointed out the obvious and stopped being so damned pc.

 

[HunterNW]

10 years ........

And believe me i hear it every fcking year.

 

[Oldfut]

Bunch of aggressive militants armed with everything from spears to firearms kills a few people in the days preceding....then decide en-masse to charge at the police, and even fire shots at the police (proven in pics) and when the police open fire as any person is entitled to do when their lives are in danger....they are suddenly the victims and the world must shed tears for them.
Yeah...maybe not.
My boss earns 5 times what I do. I feel I deserve more pay. But last time I checked, I am not allowed to grab the industrial stapler and charge at him in his office demanding more pay.
Sorry, you won't catch me blaming the cops on this one. It's about time society pointed out the obvious and stopped being so damned pc.

I can't argue with you Glock BUT I sense you (or even I) could have done better "crowd control". This was not something that happened by surprise over a few minutes. It had been brewing for days so well trained police (not saps) should have had plenty of time for a rational threat assessment - number of armed men and with what. On the day, barbed wire should have made it very difficult for the miners to actually reach the police when they "charged" (quite a few miners were shot in the back). Sharpshooters should have been positioned to take out armed miners or instigators. Non lethal measures should have been used before lethal. Police should have retreated strategically using vehicles if needed rather than open fire (randomly?).

I can understand why there was a "massacre" but I think it was unnecessary; it started when the ANC appointed marginally able cadres as generals etc etc and specifically when Jackie Selebi drastically reduced public order policing. I feel AMCU, Cyril etc all played their part in the way it ended up.

 

[R13...]

I can't argue with you Glock BUT I sense you (or even I) could have done better "crowd control". This was not something that happened by surprise over a few minutes. It had been brewing for days so well trained police (not saps) should have had plenty of time for a rational threat assessment - number of armed men and with what. On the day, barbed wire should have made it very difficult for the miners to actually reach the police when they "charged" (quite a few miners were shot in the back). Sharpshooters should have been positioned to take out armed miners or instigators. Non lethal measures should have been used before lethal. Police should have retreated strategically using vehicles if needed rather than open fire (randomly?).

I can understand why there was a "massacre" but I think it was unnecessary; it started when the ANC appointed marginally able cadres as generals etc etc and specifically when Jackie Selebi drastically reduced public order policing. I feel AMCU, Cyril etc all played their part in the way it ended up.

It is definitely not that people sympathise with the murderous strikers over the victims killed in the days leading up to the koppie. Some probably do sympathise with the stikers (and it would be some of the strikers who were murderous but common purpose and all that).

Problem is that it seems the possible went up expecting a firefight and were therefore armed for that rather than an attempt at crown control. The plan was to apparently disarm the striking miners (which was a bad plan as the miners would just re-arm). A good plan would have been to disperse them and ensure they stay dispersed. They were intimidating others after all and attacking property. Also the miners went up to the koppie expecting a showdown what with all the muti stuff and rabbits.

 

[DreamKing]

And believe me i hear it every fcking year.

I mean I created this thread 10 years ago ....

 

[RonSwanson]

I can't argue with you Glock BUT I sense you (or even I) could have done better "crowd control". This was not something that happened by surprise over a few minutes. It had been brewing for days so well trained police (not saps) should have had plenty of time for a rational threat assessment - number of armed men and with what. On the day, barbed wire should have made it very difficult for the miners to actually reach the police when they "charged" (quite a few miners were shot in the back). Sharpshooters should have been positioned to take out armed miners or instigators. Non lethal measures should have been used before lethal. Police should have retreated strategically using vehicles if needed rather than open fire (randomly?).

I can understand why there was a "massacre" but I think it was unnecessary; it started when the ANC appointed marginally able cadres as generals etc etc and specifically when Jackie Selebi drastically reduced public order policing. I feel AMCU, Cyril etc all played their part in the way it ended up.

It's what happens when you appoint a social worker as police commissioner. Did you whatch her squirm under questioning at the Farlam Commission? She never answered one question without conferring with her lawyer first (that we all paid for).

And then she found some old medals in a store and promptly awarded herself some of them.

Right of Reply to a Right of Reply: Riah Phiyega, SAPS cannot be led by a cadre carrying a line of unearned medals on her chest

Riah Phiyega, former and disgraced National Commissioner of Police, has challenged the veracity of a sentence in my critique of the SCA judgment in the Jiba and Mrwebi appeals. I commented: ‘Of his (i.e. Zuma’s) second choice, Riah Phiyega of Marikana mendacity infamy, the less said the better.’...

www.dailymaverick.co.za

 

[mojoman]

It's what happens when you appoint a social worker as police commissioner. Did you whatch her squirm under questioning at the Farlam Commission? She never answered one question without conferring with her lawyer first (that we all paid for).

And then she found some old medals in a store and promptly awarded herself some of them.

Right of Reply to a Right of Reply: Riah Phiyega, SAPS cannot be led by a cadre carrying a line of unearned medals on her chest

Riah Phiyega, former and disgraced National Commissioner of Police, has challenged the veracity of a sentence in my critique of the SCA judgment in the Jiba and Mrwebi appeals. I commented: ‘Of his (i.e. Zuma’s) second choice, Riah Phiyega of Marikana mendacity infamy, the less said the better.’...

www.dailymaverick.co.za

Lol..forgotten about that moron..(to be fair we have so many morons twatting about I can't keep up!)
Wonder what its up to now...

Former commissioner Phiyega now Polmed representative -

The discredited former Commissioner of Police, Genl. Riah Phiyega, was recently appointed as a continuation representative at the medical scheme for police members, Polmed. This followed despite the fact that the report of the Farlam Commission of Enquiry into the Marikana incident included...

solidariteit.co.za

 

[nightjar]

Bunch of aggressive militants armed with everything from spears to firearms kills a few people in the days preceding....then decide en-masse to charge at the police, and even fire shots at the police (proven in pics) and when the police open fire as any person is entitled to do when their lives are in danger....they are suddenly the victims and the world must shed tears for them.
Yeah...maybe not.
My boss earns 5 times what I do. I feel I deserve more pay. But last time I checked, I am not allowed to grab the industrial stapler and charge at him in his office demanding more pay.
Sorry, you won't catch me blaming the cops on this one. It's about time society pointed out the obvious and stopped being so damned pc.

All the hype on radio about the Marikana martyrs highlights the contradictions in South African society.

In 2015, the Gauteng provincial Department of Health removed helpless mental patients from the Life Esidimeni care centre and had them dumped in various unsuitable facilities where 144 died (4 x the Marikana number) while others were never accounted for. NOBODY CARED.

Every day in South Africa, 67 people are murdered (twice the Marikana number) but NOBODY CARES.

During the Mbeki reign over 300 000 HIV/AIDS victims were effectively killed by the withholding of lifesaving drugs in order to carve a niche for Manto's “witchdoctor” muti. NOBODY CARED.

On an almost daily basis there are reports of patients dying in State facilities from lack of care but the chief comrades don't care because they simply use private hospitals or jet off to Russia.

Strikes, since 1994, have nearly always been accompanied by violence, arson and destruction, with a few murders added to the mix and, except for Marikana, the police stand idly by.

The Marikana mob, having murdered ten people in the previous days, was armed with a variety of weapons and their courage was bolstered by bullet proof muti supplied by the local witchdoctor at R500 per pop.

The outcome at Marikana was a direct result of ANC policy which has turned SAPS into a KGB clone with the sole function of protecting Party interests, irrespective of the breakdown in law & order.

Listening to all the sanctimonious outpourings on the radio made me want to puke.

 

[mojoman]

All the hype on radio about the Marikana martyrs highlights the contradictions in South African society.

In 2015, the Gauteng provincial Department of Health removed helpless mental patients from the Life Esidimeni care centre and had them dumped in various unsuitable facilities where 144 died (4 x the Marikana number) while others were never accounted for. NOBODY CARED.

Every day in South Africa, 67 people are murdered (twice the Marikana number) but NOBODY CARES.

During the Mbeki reign over 300 000 HIV/AIDS victims were effectively killed by the withholding of lifesaving drugs in order to carve a niche for Manto's “witchdoctor” muti. NOBODY CARED.

On an almost daily basis there are reports of patients dying in State facilities from lack of care but the chief comrades don't care because they simply use private hospitals or jet off to Russia.

Strikes, since 1994, have nearly always been accompanied by violence, arson and destruction, with a few murders added to the mix and, except for Marikana, the police stand idly by.

The Marikana mob, having murdered ten people in the previous days, was armed with a variety of weapons and their courage was bolstered by bullet proof muti supplied by the local witchdoctor at R500 per pop.

The outcome at Marikana was a direct result of ANC policy which has turned SAPS into a KGB clone with the sole function of protecting Party interests, irrespective of the breakdown in law & order.

Listening to all the sanctimonious outpourings on the radio made me want to puke.

Ja, but lets make it a public holiday anyway...

 

[Glock26]

More youngsters die every circumcision season...right?
But NO-ONE is ever found to blame for that. It's not murder, and no-one really cares. Hundreds more than the Marikana miners have died. But "it's our KULCHA to die like rats" and no-one will dare stop it.

The cops were bringing in the barbed wire vehicles...they were doing their best to control the situation. It is exactly that that flared the crowd and also funneled them towards the police. That ******* that fired the homemade shotgun at the cops also triggered return fire, and led to the panic that caused the cops to open fire. No-one knew who was shooting at them.
Less lethal is USELESS. None of it is worth a damn. Glorified paintballs. A hopped-up crowd like that ignored the rubber balls. There was literally nothing that would have stopped the rioters except for live ammo.
Let's just say that if the police didn't open fire, the day would have been remembered for the number of police hacked to death.

 

[Oldfut]

More youngsters die every circumcision season...right?
But NO-ONE is ever found to blame for that. It's not murder, and no-one really cares. Hundreds more than the Marikana miners have died. But "it's our KULCHA to die like rats" and no-one will dare stop it.

The cops were bringing in the barbed wire vehicles...they were doing their best to control the situation. It is exactly that that flared the crowd and also funneled them towards the police. That ******* that fired the homemade shotgun at the cops also triggered return fire, and led to the panic that caused the cops to open fire. No-one knew who was shooting at them.
Less lethal is USELESS. None of it is worth a damn. Glorified paintballs. A hopped-up crowd like that ignored the rubber balls. There was literally nothing that would have stopped the rioters except for live ammo.
Let's just say that if the police didn't open fire, the day would have been remembered for the number of police hacked to death.

Well ja/nee. I think the "police" panicked and fired at will. How do you account for those shot in the back?

I still say the armed miners should have been identified and targeted (note that there were zero police casualties on the day so I suspect the "armed miners" has been exaggerated). Not so sure that rubber bullets from a 12g would have been ignored. Should have been tried first, then combat ammunition. Barbed wire should have been between miners and police. I have been in some hectic situations over the years so have some grasp of what the situation may have been and the temptation for marginally trained, inexperienced police to panic and open fire must have been intense and was not controlled.

This has had long term and ongoing negative implications related to the lack of protest and riot control in SA by SAPS (basically they have been told to never open fire, don't have enough ammunition and haven't received any better training). IMHO of course.

 

[Glock26]

The 12G rubber balls are the same velocity as hot paintballs..about 400fps. They WERE used at Marikana. They were largely ignored. A cardboard shield defends against those. They are not accurate, so they can't be "aimed" or target specific threats.
The miners broke through some of the barbed wire, and some if it was still being erected when the crowd charged. The wire funneled them towards the police.
As soon as gunfire erupts, people start running in various directions or turning around in a mad panic. That led to wounds in the back etc. Police didn't aim for individuals...in a panic you fire into the crowd, everyone is a target. You don't know who is shooting at you, and injuries will be in every part of the body as people run in every direction.
Not saying the police handled it well. They handled it terribly. But they are human too and expected they were being attacked and fired on. They had seen their colleagues hacked to death in the days previously.
I would have reacted the same with hundreds of rioters bearing down on me with spears and machetes.