Masters degree without Honours

[Humberto]

Re: Skipping MSc and going straight to PhD

It can't be done. What does happen sometimes is that a candidate starts an MSc which is then later upgraded to a PhD (there are mixed opinions as to whether this is good or bad). But you don't enroll directly for a PhD.

 

[Bar0n]

You register for a masters then you can "upgrade" your work for submission towards a PHD. This is a normal procedure - perhaps not common though. This is a great option for full time students who want to go into academics.

It can't be done. What does happen sometimes is that a candidate starts an MSc which is then later upgraded to a PhD (there are mixed opinions as to whether this is good or bad). But you don't enroll directly for a PhD.

This makes more sense.

 

[Tacet]

This makes more sense.

I'll confirm this for engineering. I know of at least two people who this happened to. Very much simplified: for a Masters you have to proof that you can do research. For a Doctorate you have to actually do novel research. If your study leader feels that you fulfill the requirements for a Doctorate, the department can allow you to upgrade. However, if you for some reason do not get your Doctorate, you cannot use the same material for a Masters anymore.

I think the people I know who upgraded were one from Wits and one from Potch, but I'm not sure.

 

[F1ve_Claw]

I'll confirm this for engineering. I know of at least two people who this happened to. Very much simplified: for a Masters you have to proof that you can do research. For a Doctorate you have to actually do novel research. If your study leader feels that you fulfill the requirements for a Doctorate, the department can allow you to upgrade. However, if you for some reason do not get your Doctorate, you cannot use the same material for a Masters anymore.

I think the people I know who upgraded were one from Wits and one from Potch, but I'm not sure.

I've done research for both my Honours and Masters, although in a different discipline.

The route that is possible is through recognition of prior learning and experience. You can find out the procedure but it requires a decent amount of experience. I was offered an option to move over from general psychology to industrial with no experience, based on interest and prior research work. That was moving from a Masters to an Honours though. Go to your vasity of choice and ask. Worst case is that it uses up half a day of leave

 

[saturnz]

I just remembered that my previous tenant was doing his Masters in Chemical Engineering at UCT.

His supervisor did what another suggested here and upgraded his degree to Phd, he graduated last year and he is currently doing his post doc now, but lecturing at Wits.

If you phone a institution and ask them if you can skip Masters they will most likely deny it, but if the institution is familiar with your work and followed your progress they may possibly allow it, especially if the faculty staff are familiar with you and your work ethic etc.

 

[Humberto]

I just remembered that my previous tenant was doing his Masters in Chemical Engineering at UCT.

His supervisor did what another suggested here and upgraded his degree to Phd, he graduated last year and he is currently doing his post doc now, but lecturing at Wits.

If you phone a institution and ask them if you can skip Masters they will most likely deny it, but if the institution is familiar with your work and followed your progress they may possibly allow it, especially if the faculty staff are familiar with you and your work ethic etc.

It's not so much that you "skip" your MSc. You still start out doing an MSc. If it becomes apparent at some stage of the study that the thesis will go substantially beyond what an MSc requires and will end up meeting the requirements for a PhD (sometimes what starts out as a small research problem turns out to be a much bigger research problem), then the student and supervisor can apply for the MSc to be upgraded to a PhD. These cases are approved on a case by case basis by the faculty board of the university.

 

[BigAl-sa]

It's not so much that you "skip" your MSc. You still start out doing an MSc. If it becomes apparent at some stage of the study that the thesis will go substantially beyond what an MSc requires and will end up meeting the requirements for a PhD (sometimes what starts out as a small research problem turns out to be a much bigger research problem), then the student and supervisor can apply for the MSc to be upgraded to a PhD. These cases are approved on a case by case basis by the faculty board of the university.

+1 on all counts. Especially the bit of having to be approved by the faculty board.

 

[R13...]

As for the straight to PhD from undergrad, it is possible. Our microprocessor/control lecturer (Pritchard of entelec) got his PhD while doing his MSc, his dissertation was so good it merited a PhD because he contributed novel knowledge in the field so they gave him a PhD.

 

[saturnz]

It's not so much that you "skip" your MSc. You still start out doing an MSc. If it becomes apparent at some stage of the study that the thesis will go substantially beyond what an MSc requires and will end up meeting the requirements for a PhD (sometimes what starts out as a small research problem turns out to be a much bigger research problem), then the student and supervisor can apply for the MSc to be upgraded to a PhD. These cases are approved on a case by case basis by the faculty board of the university.

thats the point, you can't fall out of the sky and skip a degree, they have to know you. My previous tenant only registered at UCT for the first time in the Masters programme, he had not been to UCT before, the other two had been at UCT in the their undergrad and honours years, they were extremely bright actually so was understandable, they did the masters coursework with us, but graduated with Phds. Its a bit tricky though, because the Phd by coursework is exactly the same coursework as the Masters programme, just the dissertations that are different.

 

[saturnz]

As for the straight to PhD from undergrad, it is possible. Our microprocessor/control lecturer (Pritchard of entelec) got his PhD while doing his MSc, his dissertation was so good it merited a PhD because he contributed novel knowledge in the field so they gave him a PhD.

he didn't do honours?

 

[R13...]

he didn't do honours?

He's an engineer, the fourth year is honors which you can't grad without.

 

[Tacet]

He's an engineer, the fourth year is honors which you can't grad without.

That depends on your varsity. Tuks requires a BEng(Hons) before you can start with an MEng degree, while most universities only requires the BEng degree. The UCT engineers doesn't have an Honours degree once they've graduated, they have a normal BEng degree.

I studied engineering at Tuks, so I'm quite familiar with the process:

BEng - 4 years
BEng(Hons) - 1 year
MEng - 2 years

My MEng wasn't good enough to be upgraded to a Doctorate, though.

 

[Arthur]

All universities can and do recognize professional experience in the field and, on application, can waive the normal pre-reqs for a degree, right up to PhD.

Not too long ago I heard of someone awarded an MSc who had no tertiary qualifications but who was a published author and recognized expert in his field. He applied for one of his books to be recognized as a Magister thesis, and after the normal academic review process, this was approved and the Masters degree awarded. Long-established leading SA university. Rare but possible.

 

[R13...]

That depends on your varsity. Tuks requires a BEng(Hons) before you can start with an MEng degree, while most universities only requires the BEng degree. The UCT engineers doesn't have an Honours degree once they've graduated, they have a normal BEng degree.

I studied engineering at Tuks, so I'm quite familiar with the process:

BEng - 4 years
BEng(Hons) - 1 year
MEng - 2 years

My MEng wasn't good enough to be upgraded to a Doctorate, though.

Erm, no. The Tuks BEng (Hons) is the GDE equivalent for the universities that name their Eng degrees BSc Eng. You can do the Hons year and then a year dissertation to earn your MEng (if you do full research they call is MSc IIRC). Or you can go from BEng to MEng.

 

[Arthur]

By the way, getting an Hons from Oxford: Four years after the baccalaureate, fill in a form, pay a small fee (used to be ten pounds) and now you can add Hons after your degree name.

 

[Gibson]

Did this to gain entry to my current PhD, although at an overseas varsity and had to have exceptional marks. A lot of the PhD application process is just finding the gap and a supervisor who's excited and willing to oversea your work.

This is all from a humanities background, so the hard sciences may well have a more rigorous screening process. From my applications to Cambridge, Oxford and other places, it's at the whim of the varsity (Oxford allows a transition from Hons to PhD, but Cambridge requires a masters), and they usually offer two masters courses that either terminate after 2 years, or streamline into a PhD.

But again that's for humanities and my particular subject.

 

[Galactica]

I know you can skip masters and go straight to Phd but not sure about skipping honours and going straight to Masters.

I know of a young man whose Masters thesis at Wits was so good they also awarded him a PHD for it. Computer Science.

 

[BigAl-sa]

All universities can and do recognize professional experience in the field and, on application, can waive the normal pre-reqs for a degree, right up to PhD.

Not too long ago I heard of someone awarded an MSc who had no tertiary qualifications but who was a published author and recognized expert in his field. He applied for one of his books to be recognized as a Magister thesis, and after the normal academic review process, this was approved and the Masters degree awarded. Long-established leading SA university. Rare but possible.

Want to share more info?

Lots of hangers in your statement: faculty, book title, long established leading university...

 

[Humberto]

All universities can and do recognize professional experience in the field and, on application, can waive the normal pre-reqs for a degree, right up to PhD.

Not too long ago I heard of someone awarded an MSc who had no tertiary qualifications but who was a published author and recognized expert in his field. He applied for one of his books to be recognized as a Magister thesis, and after the normal academic review process, this was approved and the Masters degree awarded. Long-established leading SA university. Rare but possible.

This does sound unusual. Was it an ordinary MSc or perhaps something like an MPhil instead? To my knowledge and understanding, the thesis presented for an MSc must be previously unpublished and unsubmitted work.

 

[BigAl-sa]

This does sound unusual. Was it an ordinary MSc or perhaps something like an MPhil instead? To my knowledge and understanding, the thesis presented for an MSc must be previously unpublished and unsubmitted work.

You can use previously published articles as a basis for an MSc or a PhD. The order is normally the other way round, first publish the thesis, then write the article(s) using the results in the thesis.