Matric Maths disaster looms

[daveza]

Everyday stuff works for me.

What doesn't work for me is ( again for example ) trig and algebra which as you say is for varsity candidates - and then only those candidates who will use them towards their degree.

Seems a lot of energy, time is being devoted to teaching something that for most has no value when a large majority are unable to construct a proper sentence without using Mxit language, do not understand the difference between socialism and communism, or even how to remove a virus from a pc.

In an ideal world I suppose we would have separate classes for the boffins and for those who would be better served by having a broader spectrum of what I would call general knowledge.

 

[noxibox]

Here is Maths Paper 1: http://www.quickshare.co.za/files/q1jmngpa/maths_paper_1_-_november_2009.pdf.html

If that really is the paper, then there is no excuse for getting zero. A number of questions are essentially trivial. And any teacher unable to answer those questions is undoubtedly not qualified to teach high school mathematics. For some questions language barriers are not even an excuse since anyone who has studied their subject should immediately recognise what's being asked. Getting zero means the student knows nothing about basic mathematics.

 

[PeterCH]

Seems a lot of energy, time is being devoted to teaching something that for most has no value when a large majority are unable to construct a proper sentence without using Mxit language, do not understand the difference between socialism and communism, or even how to remove a virus from a pc.

Maths incl geometry and trigonometry trains your brain to see pattens and associate things. It's a great logic training tool. Also you never know what you'll do after Matric - it's best for kids to keep all channels open and not be locked in a vocational high school type approach.

 

[Nihilanth]

Everyday stuff works for me.
large majority are unable to construct a proper sentence without using Mxit language, do not understand the difference

This is a major concern, I even saw Afrikaans engineers who can't even spell their own profession in their native language.:wtf:

 

[daveza]

If keeping the channels open is important then why aren't computer skills, mechanics, calculus, home economics and woodwork compulsory subjects ?

Trig and algebra taught me zip and I passed math thanks to geometry - which does have a value.

We may as well go back to teaching Latin for the few who may do law.

 

[PeterCH]

If keeping the channels open is important then why aren't computer skills, mechanics, calculus, home economics and woodwork compulsory subjects ?

computer skills are basic - one can learn those at any time. It's also a vocational skill.
mechanics - of what? That is a vocational skill.
home economics is something you can pick up at home from your parents.
Woodwork - not everyone needs to be a carpenter - vocational skill.

Calculus is part of mathematics. Trig, calculus, algebra are part of maths. Maths teaches important skills. Not how to use a calculator or calculate change in a shop - but how to think analytically. It also opens doors for you to do degrees in engineering, economics and medicine at UNI.

Trig and algebra taught me zip and I passed math thanks to geometry - which does have a value.

They taught you no perceivable skills but you can't say that you haven't used pattern recognition, logic, abstract thought etc in your daily and professional life.

We may as well go back to teaching Latin for the few who may do law.

Not a terrible idea. It won't be as beneficial as maths though.

 

[Lightscribe]

Well perhaps things are different now, but back in the dark ages we did not have the option of not taking maths and as I recall a fail in maths was a fail in the exams.

The bright boys were able to make sense of this stuff - but couldn't wire a three pin plug, change a flat tyre or iron a shirt.

Nowadays they don't even go to the army so I really hope they find algebra advantageous 'cos they are taught squat about anything really useful.

The army is the lowest denominator.

This is a major concern, I even saw Afrikaans engineers who can't even spell their own profession in their native language.:wtf:

5fm says..."It's god's love"...Mmmmm okaaayyyy....

 

[chrissy]

Kids should have a choice when it comes to maths. Some people are not that good with it and also if you missed some of the basic building blocks during previous grades it doesn't make life easier. I took accounting instead of maths cause my head went in that direction (not want to do it as a job though).

Exams are hard enough as it is and forcing a subject like maths on someone might just make them drop out of school. We are all different at the end of the day.

 

[ponder]

If that really is the paper, then there is no excuse for getting zero. A number of questions are essentially trivial. And any teacher unable to answer those questions is undoubtedly not qualified to teach high school mathematics.

+1

I distinctly recall doing question 9 subject matter in Std.8 (Grade 10), eish how standards have dropped. That paper really does not look difficult. Hell, you should be able to do question 1 with your eyes closed, 22 points right there.

What are all you kids biatching about?

I say make these emos do fast fourier transforms

 

[noxibox]

Ok, so if you aren't going to be an engineer or physicist ie 99% of the class, then what is the point of trig or algebra ?

Would it be fair to say that, at the least, 80% of the class will never have a need for trig or algebra once they leave school ?

Probably not, but education has value as end in itself. And algebra at the level being required in the first question of that paper is trivial. That there is a language learning problem in addition to the inability to teach these people mathematics is a concern. The poorer schools are severely understaffed and more than likely stuck with a higher percentage of useless/incompetent teachers than the better schools, although there were a good deal at the best schools in the past and probably still now. The net result is that children of poorly educated people are probably now also going to the weakest schools and their parents are not in a position to compensate.

Well, (at least for most people) algebra and Trigonometry are difficult.

My experience was that when badly taught they can be highly confusing. When taught well they're actually not as complicated as they at first appear.

 

[daveza]

The army is the lowest denominator.

I don't disagree but you will learn to iron a shirt - and while there were a lot of negatives most of the guys who were called up came out with a lot of the bs missing.

Kinda like the 12 month lesson to lose mommy's apron strings, realise you don't have the option of someone else will do it and you don't actually know everything after all.

But that's another discussion.

 

[Gomario]

@daveza You are 'a bit' confused to put it mildly (and not hurt). Well, with intelligence, the funny thing is - one needs it to realize when it is needed. Of course you can't figure out why should one learn and understand this and that. Don't worry, is normal bud. You/your peers, will not only survive but even prosper, without any of that unimportant crap. Darvin (some long dead European lunatic) already figured out/showed us why You see, logical thinking can be taught (at least in theory) intelligence on the other hand - unfortunately not. Maths is supposed to teach the former - as for the later . . .

 

[krycor]

As for our economy, explain to me why i had to take a job as a carguard recently (just to scrape enuff cash together to buy my significant other something for xmas) because our companies are too afraid to put their money where their mouths are? Is this what you do to skilled people you supposedly crave? I should be head hunted like a mofo!

Companies should understand that graduates need at least 6 months to get the feel for the job, after two years they'll be so great at what they do you wouldn't know how you woulda survived without them. Get your act together please.

Still, im positive, going for that masters (x's fingers) and want to contribute to the country. It'd be sad if i have to leave for greener pastures

Exactly! I'm not entirely convinced any more if its worth it.

 

[scotty777]

I enjoyed maths , found some tough sections (I forgot how to do trig, so I forced myself to learn how to do it again during the weekends... free time became maths time)

However, I enjoyed calculus to no end because it's application was evident in science, so instead of working out long formulas, you use one formula and then differentiate .

 

[daveza]

@daveza You are 'a bit' confused to put it mildly (and not hurt). Well, with intelligence, the funny thing is - one needs it to realize when it is needed. Of course you can't figure out why should one learn and understand this and that. Don't worry, is normal bud. You/your peers, will not only survive but even prosper, without any of that unimportant crap. Darvin (some long dead European lunatic) already figured out/showed us why You see, logical thinking can be taught (at least in theory) intelligence on the other hand - unfortunately not. Maths is supposed to teach the former - as for the later . . .

And your point is ?

Logical thinking for someone who doesn't know where America is is about as useful as teaching the Fosbury Flop to a quadriplegic.

 

[scotty777]

And your point is ?

Logical thinking for someone who doesn't know where America is is about as useful as teaching the Fosbury Flop to a quadriplegic.

hmmm... most Americans can't point out Australia, or South Africa on a map (need to find that bloody video ).

However, if you teach a person logic, then knowledge is bound to follow because is it not logical to learn more? Furthermore, if you had a very logical population, AIDS, massive population growth (poor people with 29324234234 children), crime etc. would begin to disappear . Even more important, you'd be able to deduce that South Africa would be the southern most country in Africa, and that Australia=South thus the big rock like thing on the map that is only in the south

 

[semiautomatix]

I have to say that 30 something years later I don't even understand the question so as for the answer, who knows.

I always that that ' if 2y=x and 10x =9b then what is m+z ' to be the most pointless exercise and personally I have never needed to know the answer since leaving school.

But I do accept some find it useful ( 5 % ? )

So you've never bought tiles in your life then?

I have 1^2m of a certain tile for R50 or 1x = y where y = 50 so if I now need 100^m = y, so then y = 50 x 100 = 5 000. You don't even realise how much algebra you actually use in every day life, it's that scary!

 

[scotty777]

So you've never bought tiles in your life then?

I have 1^2m of a certain tile for R50 or 1x = y where y = 50 so if I now need 100^m = y, so then y = 50 x 100 = 5 000. You don't even realise how much algebra you actually use in every day life, it's that scary!

that looks like Linear Programing though.

 

[Lightscribe]

hmmm... most Americans can't point out Australia, or South Africa on a map (need to find that bloody video ).

However, if you teach a person logic, then knowledge is bound to follow because is it not logical to learn more? Furthermore, if you had a very logical population, AIDS, massive population growth (poor people with 29324234234 children), crime etc. would begin to disappear . Even more important, you'd be able to deduce that South Africa would be the southern most country in Africa, and that Australia=South thus the big rock like thing on the map that is only in the south

Logic...

I am a std8 maths fail.

Yet, I would spend my days discussing maths theory...

The maths professors, always said that for a mathematical theory to be accepted, it needs to be able to be disproven.

No theory can stand on it's own, totally provable.

Now teach me me somethin...k...

So you've never bought tiles in your life then?

I have 1^2m of a certain tile for R50 or 1x = y where y = 50 so if I now need 100^m = y, so then y = 50 x 100 = 5 000. You don't even realise how much algebra you actually use in every day life, it's that scary!

I like tiles. They remind me of non anc logic...

 

[Nihilanth]

Logic...

I like tiles. They remind me of non anc logic...

Really? The tiles remind me a lot about them. Tiles can't think and the anc can't either.