MrGray
Honorary Master
I gather that although they will not sent invoices every time you incur a toll, they will collate and send a monthly invoice. There was something to this effect in the "Violations Processing Centre" debt collection process.
-
Join the MyBroadband community
South Africa’s biggest forum. Discuss, discover, and connect with thousands of members.
-
Question of the Day: How do you normally pay for purchases in stores?
[May 2013..Dec 2013] The Gauteng E-tolling Thread
- Status
I gather that although they will not sent invoices every time you incur a toll, they will collate and send a monthly invoice. There was something to this effect in the "Violations Processing Centre" debt collection process.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
Sanral desperate for enthusiasm: OUTA
There is a massive difference between grudging compliance with and enthusiastic endorsement of the electronic tolling system, Outa said on Wednesday.
The caution of business bodies in advising members to comply "can hardly be construed as endorsement", the Opposition to Urban Tolling Alliance (Outa) said.
"What is particularly worrying is the extent to which Sanral's PR spin has degenerated into gross fabrication, motivated by Sanral's desperate efforts to manufacture the impression of enthusiastic compliance," Outa chairman Wayne Duvenage said in a statement.
"There have been many examples of misrepresentation by Sanral, and this latest deception is just another incident which further destroys their credibility."
On Tuesday, the SA Chamber of Commerce and Industry (Sacci) said the SA National Roads Agency Limited (Sanral) had twisted its stance on e-tolling.
Sacci CEO Neren Rau said it wished to clarify its position on e-tolls.
"Sacci remains opposed to e-tolls because of the high collection costs and the overall burden the tolls will have on the economy," he said in a statement.
"However, Sacci will advise its members to abide by the law if the e-toll law is implemented on December 3 because of the high cost of non-compliance."
Rau said the organisation had been in talks with Outa about e-tolling, and that its concerns had been shared with the government.
Sanral spokesman Vusi Mona said on Tuesday that the company welcomed Sacci's support for e-tolling.
"Big business is a vital part of the economy of not only this province, but of the country. It is therefore a significant endorsement to have its (Sacci's) backing," Mona said.
Sanral said it offered a number of e-tolling services to businesses, including bulk registration, and fleet registration.
The bulk registration service offered groups of people (in excess of 50) tolling registration at a venue of their choice.
The fleet registration service was offered to companies with fleets of vehicles.
Vehicle rental company Avis has also sought to clarify its stance on e-tolling.
"Unfortunately, some media incorrectly reported that Avis, by supporting the highway upgrades, also supports the implementation of e-tolls as the funding mechanism," CEO Keith Rankin said on Wednesday.
"This view is incorrect.... We believe that there are more effective funding mechanisms than the proposed e-toll model."
Last week, Transport Minister Dipuo Peters announced that the e-tolling of Gauteng's highways would come into effect on December 3.
Source : Sapa /mr/hdw/ks/cls
Date : 27 Nov 2013 18:38
There is a massive difference between grudging compliance with and enthusiastic endorsement of the electronic tolling system, Outa said on Wednesday.
The caution of business bodies in advising members to comply "can hardly be construed as endorsement", the Opposition to Urban Tolling Alliance (Outa) said.
"What is particularly worrying is the extent to which Sanral's PR spin has degenerated into gross fabrication, motivated by Sanral's desperate efforts to manufacture the impression of enthusiastic compliance," Outa chairman Wayne Duvenage said in a statement.
"There have been many examples of misrepresentation by Sanral, and this latest deception is just another incident which further destroys their credibility."
On Tuesday, the SA Chamber of Commerce and Industry (Sacci) said the SA National Roads Agency Limited (Sanral) had twisted its stance on e-tolling.
Sacci CEO Neren Rau said it wished to clarify its position on e-tolls.
"Sacci remains opposed to e-tolls because of the high collection costs and the overall burden the tolls will have on the economy," he said in a statement.
"However, Sacci will advise its members to abide by the law if the e-toll law is implemented on December 3 because of the high cost of non-compliance."
Rau said the organisation had been in talks with Outa about e-tolling, and that its concerns had been shared with the government.
Sanral spokesman Vusi Mona said on Tuesday that the company welcomed Sacci's support for e-tolling.
"Big business is a vital part of the economy of not only this province, but of the country. It is therefore a significant endorsement to have its (Sacci's) backing," Mona said.
Sanral said it offered a number of e-tolling services to businesses, including bulk registration, and fleet registration.
The bulk registration service offered groups of people (in excess of 50) tolling registration at a venue of their choice.
The fleet registration service was offered to companies with fleets of vehicles.
Vehicle rental company Avis has also sought to clarify its stance on e-tolling.
"Unfortunately, some media incorrectly reported that Avis, by supporting the highway upgrades, also supports the implementation of e-tolls as the funding mechanism," CEO Keith Rankin said on Wednesday.
"This view is incorrect.... We believe that there are more effective funding mechanisms than the proposed e-toll model."
Last week, Transport Minister Dipuo Peters announced that the e-tolling of Gauteng's highways would come into effect on December 3.
Source : Sapa /mr/hdw/ks/cls
Date : 27 Nov 2013 18:38
blunomore
Honorary Master
1. If you only receive a monthly statement, you will already be late in paying some (most) of the toll fees on that statement, since they must be paid within 7 days of incurring them, right? So the onus would still be on you (the user) to contact them and find out what is owing? How? Only telephonically? That opens up the possibility for a lot of mistakes etc.
2. Violations Processing Centre??? Have they never heard of phrasing things in the positive? It's better to express even a negative in positive form. Making users feel like criminals will not serve their purpose at all!
MrGray
Honorary Master
According to this link http://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/index.php?gort_xml+template~~menu/main~~L1_11845~~ENG~~~~~~ If Violations Processing Centre Payment is made within: 0 to 29 days from issue of VPC invoice you get 60% discount.
So if they issue an invoice for a month's usage, you would still have 30 days for the discount and 59 days to pay, it seems. Of course, if you magically pay within 7 days, you pay a lower rate. (Your debt automatically goes to the ridiculously termed "Violations Processing Centre" if you haven't paid within 7 days).
One thing we can bank on is a strike by PO workers. A 4 week strike will cause such a huge backlog (@ 30 mil pm), I doubt they would recover in months. VIVA STRIKE VIVA
MrGray
Honorary Master
One thing we can bank on is a strike by PO workers. A 4 week strike will cause such a huge backlog (@ 30 mil pm), I doubt they would recover in months. VIVA STRIKE VIVA
I don't think they've thought about it very carefully - 450 000 per month is nothing compared to 1 000 000 per day. In any event, they will be sending monthly not daily invoices.
Mila
Honorary Master
Don't worry according to some you are middle class and should not a gardener.
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/576908-Article-New-minimum-wage-of-domestic-workers/page3
I'm in the same boat.
One thing we can bank on is a strike by PO workers. A 4 week strike will cause such a huge backlog (@ 30 mil pm), I doubt they would recover in months. VIVA STRIKE VIVA
They strike so often these days that it doesn't even get reported any more. I've been caught unaware twice whole posting important information. Absolutely no news coverage.
MrGray
Honorary Master
Just a thought with Avis and other rental agencies passing on the charges for the E-Tolls to their clients. Apart from the fact that they will probably be doing so at a profit, what happens when the tag in a vehicle hits it's monthly R450 threshold??? Do the lucky subsequent renters of that vehicle pay no E-Toll fees?
Sinbad
Honorary Master
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2006
- Messages
- 89,072
- Reaction score
- 41,862
No. Avis pays no more fees. Subsequent renters subsidise Avis staff party.
Just hear Robin Carlisle on SAFM, the city is taking SANRAL to court to stop the etolls down in the republic of the western cape.
They reckon they do not need them, can do just fine without unnecessary new roads and tunnels, and have no stomach for e-tolls.
He reckons the rail infrastructure which transports the poorest of the poor requires immediate attention but is being ignored.
They reckon they do not need them, can do just fine without unnecessary new roads and tunnels, and have no stomach for e-tolls.
He reckons the rail infrastructure which transports the poorest of the poor requires immediate attention but is being ignored.
Registered etagged vehicles pay the lowest rates, I would guess fleets would get an even better rate.
Avis, on the other hand have said they would charge their valued customers the maximum unregistered rate which amounts to a revenue stream running in excess of 80% profit.
Shameless!
Regarding the last part of your question, that is an interesting point, however they will most certainly charge the individual up to no more than R450, not the etag throughout the month.
Last edited:
MrGray
Honorary Master
Which would be unfair since the cap is on the E-Tag not the individual.
http://www.iol.co.za/motoring/indus...es-to-e-toll-operation-1.1613913#.Upcr-cQW18E
Don't believe the 17c for a minute, but it's 17c less per rand that could have been spent on the roads if they had chosen the fuel-levy system.
Don't believe the 17c for a minute, but it's 17c less per rand that could have been spent on the roads if they had chosen the fuel-levy system.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
MrGray
Honorary Master
"The remaining 83 cents goes to a variety of needs linked to the road, including servicing the loan incurred in order to complete the Gauteng Freeway Improvement Project (GFIP)."
So actually, probably far far more than 17c per Rand will be paying for this system.
This makes fsckall sense. Their current "net"* profit is 11,71% if we exclude their financial trickery with re-evaluating assets. Are they honestly trying to tell us that this project is operating at 83% net profit? Even if that were true, that's a horrendous indictment of how inefficient the funding mechanism was. If they have to make an 83% "net" profit margin on us all in order to service their debt, then they need to be taken to task for their exorbitant cost of capital. What an awful way to try to drum up support. This only serves to further fuel my anger!
This is utter bullschit from them. How can there exist such a disparity between existing net profit margins and this project? That is just highly unlikely. And how can they possibly think that admitting that they make an 83% net profit from us will earn them support?!
Even if this figure is true, then he is admitting that it cost 17% more than it needed to, had it not been funded with the fuel levy to begin with. That's R5,1bn more that it will now cost us...
Kapsch have been open about their revenue derived from this project, you moron. They will be receiving R669 million per annum from our tax-money. The fact that this is after tax just shows how much we're further being shafted, you dipschit. We're paying a private company (ETC) an inflated cost in order to repay their international partners, and for us to pay more tax to the government...
*It's not quite net in that they're conflating the issue somewhat. They're not actually providing a net figure, but it is easily calculated within the parameters they've given us...
Last edited:
MrGray
Honorary Master
@DJ - can your model provide an estimate of what percentage will go to debt servicing and repayment?
Unfortunately not. I built two models - one based on profit margins using a flat price-point over 7 years, and one based on the increases required using existing operating margins and their stated price-breakdown over the term of their debt. Even if I plug their stated 17% expenditure number into my model, they still require a year on year 19% increase to the prices to avoid a default on their debt...
- Status