Med students take on Wits

[Tabac]

“So, the first thing that all our students are told is that to be a professional, being okay is not good enough. Being outstanding is what we want.

“There is no such thing as being okay if I have just passed as a doctor,” he said."

Makes me think..... the other day I was in a meeting where the Manager was talking about how things work in "Kanaaaada" Yep, that was his pronunciation of Canada.

 

[konfab]

The Cohen 60 method does seem stupid though. For example, if the class is weak, the pass requirement will be low, while if the class is strong, the pass requirement will be high.

That isn't going to be a problem in a field like medicine where they take the absolute cream of the academic crop of the country.

I know why they are getting stinky about this.

40% of the places will be offered to the top performing candidates based on academic merit;
the remaining 60% will be offered as follows:

• approximately 20% of the places will be offered to top performing rural learners;
• approximately 20% of the places will be offered to top performing learners from quintile 1 and 2 schools;
• and approximately 20% of the places will be allocated to high achieving African and Coloured learners.

https://www.wits.ac.za/media/wits-university/study/undergraduate/Wits University Revised Health Sciences Admissions Policy .pdf

It is because they are doing social engineering. The competition for those 40% of places is ridiculously high, thus only the best of the best students will get it. They then set the standard for the rest of the candidates who are not as academically talented.

 

[Azg]

The issue is the Cohen method takes 60% of the mark achieved by the top candidate, as the pass mark. It's not taking your average mark and comparing it to a cut-off mark (e.g. 50%). If your class has enough outliers (top-performers) then there is a potential the rest of the class will be prejudiced.

 

[Azg]

it's an average across your modules. Heck if anything that's very gracious. That means a student can fail dismally in some modules, while doing well in others, and still pass.

How can something like that be discriminatory????

It is NOT an average across your modules. It takes the marks of the top perfomer and says if you don't reach a certain percentage of that, then you have failed.

The issue is what do other medical schools in SA use (UCT, Stellenbosch etc)? European medical schools do not use that method, as it is taken to be arbitrary and of questionable validity.

 

[cr@zydude]

The method used sounds like it's asking for a Tonya Harding incident. Why should passing be based on someone else's mark?

 

[Y'all Qaeda]

The issue is the Cohen method takes 60% of the mark achieved by the top candidate, as the pass mark. It's not taking your average mark and comparing it to a cut-off mark (e.g. 50%). If your class has enough outliers (top-performers) then there is a potential the rest of the class will be prejudiced.

You mean the people that had to get almost all 95% in matric across all subjects to get into the course in the first place due to their "historic advantages". Cause they've been working their butts off since Grade 8 probably, knowing what the requirements were. Makes sense that they'll continue doing so once admitted.

 

[Y'all Qaeda]

The method used sounds like it's asking for a Tonya Harding incident. Why should passing be based on someone else's mark?

If you're running the comrades and you get to polly shorts with 30minutes to go, should they continue having marshalls and support staff available on the off the chance that you pull out a miracle and complete the course in the given time? Or do they look at your chances of completing it, given the proven averages and save yourself and them some time and money by stopping you there?

Would you prefer this person flunks out in year 5 with 5 years worth of student debt or do they get flunked after first year.

 

[RaptorSA]

It is NOT an average across your modules. It takes the marks of the top perfomer and says if you don't reach a certain percentage of that, then you have failed.

Good, keeps people on their toes and uses peer competition which is a great way of pushing people to be their best.
Only the losers ever moan about things like this.

Oh and by the way, as someone who was actually at University, this is also a good thing in the worst of cases. If a subject it's objectively too hard (due to whatever reason) then they can adjust the pass rate and/or marking process accordingly, everyone wins.

 

[P924]

The issue is the Cohen method takes 60% of the mark achieved by the top candidate, as the pass mark. It's not taking your average mark and comparing it to a cut-off mark (e.g. 50%). If your class has enough outliers (top-performers) then there is a potential the rest of the class will be prejudiced.

So the rest of the class is prejudiced if the absolute highest value the pass mark can be with the Cohen method is 60%? (if the top candidate gets 100%). I am fine with that. The problem is if the top performing candidate gets 60%. Imagine 36% being the mark your doctor got and passed.

 

[Azg]

Good, keeps people on their toes and uses peer competition which is a great way of pushing people to be their best.
Only the losers ever moan about things like this.

Oh and by the way, as someone who was actually at University, this is also a good thing in the worst of cases. If a subject it's objectively too hard (due to whatever reason) then they can adjust the pass rate and/or marking process accordingly, everyone wins.

I am pretty sure most on this forum went to University. I certainly did, and passed. "If a subject it's objectively too hard" - writing like that it is doubtful you passed, Cohen method or otherwise.

 

[cr@zydude]

If you're running the comrades and you get to polly shorts with 30minutes to go, should they continue having marshalls and support staff available on the off the chance that you pull out a miracle and complete the course in the given time? Or do they look at your chances of completing it, given the proven averages and save yourself and them some time and money by stopping you there?

Would you prefer this person flunks out in year 5 with 5 years worth of student debt or do they get flunked after first year.

Would the cut off time change if that year's race is won in a record time?

 

[Knyro]

I am pretty sure most on this forum went to University. I certainly did, and passed. "If a subject it's objectively too hard" - writing like that it is doubtful you passed, Cohen method or otherwise.

Yeah I had to LOL at that.

Talmbout "as someone who was actually at University" like it's something special around here.

MyBB is littered with university degrees.

 

[RaptorSA]

I am pretty sure most on this forum went to University. I certainly did, and passed. "If a subject it's objectively too hard" - writing like that it is doubtful you passed, Cohen method or otherwise.

Yeah I had to LOL at that.
Talmbout "as someone who was actually at University" like it's something special around here.
MyBB is littered with university degrees.

So no actual input then, just moaning about an argument from authority that I never made.
Noted.
I'm guessing BA degrees both of you?

 

[daveza]

40% of the places will be offered to the top performing candidates based on academic merit;
the remaining 60% will be offered as follows:

• approximately 20% of the places will be offered to top performing rural learners;
• approximately 20% of the places will be offered to top performing learners from quintile 1 and 2 schools;
• and approximately 20% of the places will be allocated to high achieving African and Coloured learners.

Social engineering for the win ~ Verwoerd

 

[lived666]

Basically this student failed every term but still wants to get passed cause historical reasons blah blah, NOPE.
There are more than enough people from a similar background passing just fine, bottom line sweety, you just dumb.

Anyhow go back as far in time as you want and every year you will find some failed med student and their mom hot on their heals, any race, various reasons.

 

[Knyro]

So no actual input then, just moaning about an argument from authority that I never made.
Noted.
I'm guessing BA degrees both of you?

/yawn

Nobody said anything about an argument from authority. Your sentence is ridiculous purely based on how many people have degrees around here.

BSc btw.

 

[RaptorSA]

/yawn

Nobody said anything about an argument from authority. Your sentence is ridiculous purely based on how many people have degrees around here.

BSc btw.

An now your sentence is ridiculous because of the amount of BSc's around here.
See how this works?

 

[daveza]

Perhaps at the next Olympics we can introduce this thinking into the 100m race.

20% of the starters will be offered to those who won the egg and spoon race in grade 9 and hence show potential.
20% of the starters will be offered to those who really want to be a sprinting star because you must allow some to follow their dreams.
20% of the starters will be offered to those who don't want to practice too much but still think they are more deserving than those who do.

After all, picking only the very best is so 20th century.

 

[Knyro]

An now your sentence is ridiculous because of the amount of BSc's around here.
See how this works?

What nonsense. You asked what degree I have and I simply answered.

If I had said "Oh and by the way, as somebody who actually has a BSc..." it would be as BSc degrees are also common on MyBB.

Good day Mr. "Actually went to university".

 

[Sideshow Bob]

MyBB is littered with university degrees.

More billionaires here than degree holders though.