Men are Screwed (rule 43)

[Emjay]

Thank you. Excellent summary. I would say a lot more than that one ship has sailed. The traditional roles of men and women have changed. But equally, those change shave been for better and for worse. Unfortunately it opened doors for other problems, problems which the extremes on both sides of the coin just help worsen. It's these extremes that undermines traditional values (as opposed to roles).

On topic:
I have an (ex) dog in this fight. Some lawyers are simply aholes and do more harm than good. But then again I'm on record as saying a prosecutor and his staff are worse than "bobbejaane" to them. Also said in in correspondence to his bosses. In the meantime the one lady at the family court in my area had her hand in her hair because the arrogant prosecutor was not involving her. In my fights some of the most fair have been females, some of the worst males. I even nearly had a lawyer locked up for claiming to have destroyed stolen evidence. My own lawyer had elft me to my own devices as long I I wa son the right track, just confirming I'm doing the right things (no accounts - he was a great guy). I've seen a female abuse the courts simply because she can.

Yes, it gets messy. But record, record, record. When the time comes prove it. If things get stupid, volunteer to pay the maintenance in at the court. That way there is a record.

Equally, I've seen some guys not stepping up for their children, mom not knowing where the next plate of food for her children will come from while the dad is jolling around etc.

It works both ways.

As someone who has been in the legal field, lawyers are the scum of the earth. I studied law, and worked for them for a long time. My experience was terrible, and I felt like I sold my soul. I am stereotyping quite heavily now, and some are pretty decent. But the end goal is always billables. They live and breath on hourly billing, and this comes through in all the decisions they make. I often felt what they did was completely unethical.

 

[Emjay]

Nothing crazy about it, some men have that little control..... with the loosening of sexual norms there are a lot more of them now than there were before because of an excess of stimulation everywhere. The rise in prominence of promiscuity has masked this.

A man is what he gets exposed to, the more stimulation (ads, porn, teasing woman, woman dressed immodestly, etc) the less resistance he can give against his natural urges. Nothing crazy about that unless one suffers from the delusion than men and woman are put together the same sexually.

That does not in any way mean I endorse that kind of behavior and tbh I was slightly insulted that you took the opposite away from what I said even though I repeatedly said I don't.

EDIT:Also I DID NOT MEAN MEN ARE FORCED TO RAPE.... if you took that away.... best not to finish that thought.

By your own logic, men can control their urges because they are not forced to rape.

 

[Grimis]

This is quite entertaining, and as a 3rd party witnessing it I have to leave this here because I feel like the robot.

 

[Tokolotshe]

As someone who has been in the legal field, lawyers are the scum of the earth. I studied law, and worked for them for a long time. My experience was terrible, and I felt like I sold my soul. I am stereotyping quite heavily now, and some are pretty decent. But the end goal is always billables. They live and breath on hourly billing, and this comes through in all the decisions they make. I often felt what they did was completely unethical.

Oh I agree.

But on that note, some were more than good, they were excellent. Oom Hentie: what a great man. It was not about the money, it was what was right: https://rekordcenturion.co.za/170375/pioneer-rugby-administrator-hentie-serfontein-passed-away/

 

[rambo919]

By your own logic, men can control their urges because they are not forced to rape.

You are being too absolutist about what "control" means. There are both different kinds and degrees of control. You can partially and totally loose it, and even when you totally loose it you don't necessarily become a wild animal.

People go on automatic pilot all the time but they don't randomly start raping or killing there is always a level control involved.

Also not all rapes are equal, some are because of lust, some because of power and some are literally because orders are being followed in the case of a military conflict.

EDIT: in cases where men can literally not control themselves they usually still have an obvious choice left, whether or not to remove themselves physically from woman. It might not necessarily feel like a choice when the hunger is at it's peak but it's still a choice.

 

[jambai]

Thanks for asking, instead of just assuming.

It's simple.

1. I reject all forms of identity politics. Feminists are shrills. MRAs are just like the feminists. I used to be pretty outspoken for MRAs, but that ship has sailed.
2. Men and women are equal in terms of the workplace and in society, but different. Those differences fall on a scale, however. My beliefs revolve around self-determination, and believe everyone should have the freedom to choose their own path. I believe in equal opportunity, but not equal outcomes, and abhor any sort of quotas (which is enforcement of identity politics).
3. Men do get treated unfairly in certain spheres of society. However, men don't have it worse than women. And vice versa. Each sex has different issues.
4. The nuclear family is important, but women shouldn't be forced to fulfill a role. The family unit can work together to raise well rounded children. Women cannot have it all as it is impossible. Sacrifices will always have to be made, but as I said, working as a family, children can be raised well.
5. Violence is perpetuated against men and women, and it is the minority of men (and some women) that ruin it for everyone else. Violence is a societal issue, and not just a men's issue.

Well we agree on lots . I think we could all argue for long time as it is all based on theory or ideals but not much we have control over in a real world setting other than most importantly choosing our partner . For the rest the only thing we can control is our respect for different races ,genders .

 

[My_King]

 

[rambo919]

"it's always worse for women no matter what it is"..... basically a summary of "women's month"

 

[Ancalagon]

That's why feminism is still needed - because despite the claims of people on this thread, those people are still ideologically opposed to the most basic kinds of gender equality: the right of women to work and achieve independent fulfilling lives without undermining the natural order of the 'family structure'. Never mind other, more advanced rights that feminists push for, such as eliminating gender data bias.

More strawmanning. Need to create this imaginary boogey man to justify tipping the balance further in women's favour.

I haven't seen anyone in this thread advocating that women get back into the kitchen.

 

[cerebus]

More strawmanning. Need to create this imaginary boogey man to justify tipping the balance further in women's favour.

Ooohhh strawmen, strawmen everywhere, the horror!

"it's always worse for women no matter what it is"..... basically a summary of "women's month"

Feminists want 100% control over men. They want 100% of males of the species into 100% submission and 100% obedience. They will not rest until every male on the planet is on his knees licking the boots of every woman he encounters.

The only thing that can undermine gender equality and has done so in our modern world is feminism.

Feminism is in many ways a religious crusade which is why it's adherents become so kneejerkelly frothy at the mouth sometimes when their still unproven beliefs are questioned.

Marriage was invented to give more guys a chance to appreciate the fruits of feminists.

Feminists will not stop until every man on earth is crawling behind a woman attached to her on a dog chain.

 

[Ancalagon]

Ooohhh strawmen, strawmen everywhere, the horror!

Ironically none of those quotes support your argument. Some - but not all of them - are hyperbole about the aims of feminism.

Not a single one says that women ought to be in the kitchen or restricted in their career choices.

So, what you are saying is that criticism of feminism is not allowed if it comes from men? Because, again, I encourage you to read those quotes again - none of them aim to put women down. All of them are critical of feminism, but none of them aim to reinforce traditional gender roles.

 

[cerebus]

Ironically none of those quotes support your argument. Some - but not all of them - are hyperbole about the aims of feminism.

But all of them are strawmen

 

[rambo919]

But all of them are strawmen

Mine wasnt, scratch hard enough and the mentality of perpetual female victimhood gets proven easily enough... on you it's plain on the surface.

 

[Ancalagon]

But all of them are strawmen

I disagree, but its irrelevant. Your assertion on was the continued need for feminism with respect to female autonomy, employment blah blah blah.

Even if these are strawmen arguments - like yours I must point out - none of them mean that feminism is necessary.

Feminism is necessary because men make strawmen arguments against feminism - what even is that? Do you even English?

 

[rambo919]

Whenever someone states feminism is necesary..... they "prove" it by giving what is by spouting a statement of faith...... no one has yet actually proven it's REAL benefits, instead all we get are utopian ideals that have never actually worked.....anywhere.

Prove it works FIRST then demand it, not the other way around.

 

[cerebus]

I disagree, but its irrelevant. Your assertion on was the continued need for feminism with respect to female autonomy, employment blah blah blah.

Even if these are strawmen arguments - like yours I must point out - none of them mean that feminism is necessary.

They are strawman arguments.

Feminism is necessary because men make strawmen arguments against feminism - what even is that? Do you even English?

Ironically that's also a blatant strawman. I never said anything like that now did I?

 

[rambo919]

@Ancalagon he's like the kid from school that keeps poking you for a reaction and then when you give him a klap he plays the victim

 

[Gingerbeardman]

@Ancalagon he's like the kid from school that keeps poking you for a reaction and then when you give him a klap he plays the victim

Professional SJW.

 

[Tokolotshe]

Whenever someone states feminism is necesary..... they "prove" it by giving what is by spouting a statement of faith...... no one has yet actually proven it's REAL benefits, instead all we get are utopian ideals that have never actually worked.....anywhere.

Prove it works FIRST then demand it, not the other way around.

Okay, hypothetical situation. Actually not so hypothetical ...

Stoney lives in the sticks. No internet, roads, power, cell phones, cars etc. Every day he drives cows from a kraal to the veld, watches them while fishing, perhaps catching a rabbit or whatever. His wife does what she does cleaning, cooking ...

Along comes Mr Civilization: offers him roads, tv, electricity, internet etc. Should he take it? Does Mrs Stoney have a say?

 

[rambo919]

Okay, hypothetical situation. Actually not so hypothetical ...

Stoney lives in the sticks. No internet, roads, power, cell phones, cars etc. Every day he drives cows from a kraal to the veld, watches them while fishing, perhaps catching a rabbit or whatever. His wife does what she does cleaning, cooking ...

Along comes Mr Civilization: offers him roads, tv, electricity, internet etc. Should he take it? Does Mrs Stoney have a say?

Are you conflating modern social norms and technological advancement here?