Metro Cops and the demerit system

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Naztyb

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Hi All

Today I was happily driving through Bryanston. I lifted my ipod and changed the track as I put my ipod down there she was, a Lumpy metro cop waving her arm at me. I gently pulled off to the side, turned the radio down and rolled down my passenger window.

As she greeted me she requested my license and while I was in the process of getting my license out, she said "you were talking on your phone" I looked at her in surprize and said "no i wasn't" I have a bluetooth headset for that - showing her my headset which was next to me. she wouldn't believe it, she said no I was on my phone. I told her I could show her my phone logs which will prove I was not on my phone, she then changed her story saying that I was holding the phone. So I asked why can I not hold a phone, since when id holding a phone a crime. As she got more defensive and aggressive, I started getting a far sterner and direct trying to keep my calm.

Eventually i told her, "this is what I was doing I was changing a song and showed her my ipod, asking her since when is that a crime, she started saying "aah ipod, ipod" eventually she wrote me a R500 ticket saying that I was holding my cellular phone while driving, then asked me to sign which naturally I refused to because she had the incorrect information.

This raises a huge concern for me with the demerit system coming in. It's unbelievable how easy it is for Metro to make a claim against us and write out a ticket, naturally people will be more susceptible to offering bribes etc as they become more desperate.

I am happy to go to court and I am 200% confident that I will not have to pay a thing however I think in cases where you are found innocent you should have recourse to some payments, the state or department should be penalized and you should be paid out for having to go through the unnecessary costs of going into court etc. Once it starts costing the Metro money then we'll start seeing a change in attitude and quality.

just my thoughts after a horrible afternoon. :mad:
 
Naztyb said:
...I think in cases where you are found innocent you should have recourse to some payments, the state or department should be penalized and you should be paid out for having to go through the unnecessary costs of going into court etc. Once it starts costing the Metro money then we'll start seeing a change in attitude and quality.
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I tend to agree as it would hopefully deter these people from taking such chances. No doubt the R500 could've been squashed to a R100 KFC "spot fine" if you'd been so inclined. Good luck and let us know how it goes.
 
This thinking could also have a negative effect on Metro since it is costing them money, why do the effort in the first place, unless someone rolls up dead next to me I'll just let everything slide.

Interesting one this...
 
Naztyb said:
I am happy to go to court and I am 200% confident that I will not have to pay a thing however I think in cases where you are found innocent you should have recourse to some payments, the state or department should be penalized and you should be paid out for having to go through the unnecessary costs of going into court etc. Once it starts costing the Metro money then we'll start seeing a change in attitude and quality.

just my thoughts after a horrible afternoon. :mad:
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Relax :) You won't even have to go to court. You just write a nice letter to the public prosecutor explaining your situation (you've already written most of it down here) and you send it or hand deliver it to him at the magistrate's court along with a copy of the fine. Tell him that if you were to go to court that is what you would argue and request him to waive the fine. I am very confident he will just pull the fine. You can even bring a copy of your cell phone logs as evidence.
 
Flanders said:
I tend to agree as it would hopefully deter these people from taking such chances. No doubt the R500 could've been squashed to a R100 KFC "spot fine" if you'd been so inclined. Good luck and let us know how it goes.
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Most likely easier to have paid R100 and get it over with, but I was shocked as what a blatant chance it was that I was not going to stand for it and still won't. I am going to find out what action I can take against the state, if any, once I have proved my innocence. Its fairly simple coz the proof lies in my phone records. I want some compensation because I probably will have to use my work time and petrol to get to court. To a certain extent to wipe the smirk off that officers face and get 1 back at the Metro!

Any lawyers know if I can sue the state for false accusation?
 
Naztyb said:
Most likely easier to have paid R100 and get it over with, but I was shocked as what a blatant chance it was that I was not going to stand for it and still won't. I am going to find out what action I can take against the state, if any, once I have proved my innocence. Its fairly simple coz the proof lies in my phone records. I want some compensation because I probably will have to use my work time and petrol to get to court. To a certain extent to wipe the smirk off that officers face and get 1 back at the Metro!

Any lawyers know if I can sue the state for false accusation?
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haha... just mail the letter to the State Prosecutor. I promise, he will let you off once he sees that he really has no case. At worst he will reduce it.
 
Naztyb said:
but I was shocked as what a blatant chance it was that I was not going to stand for it and still won't.
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I know these Metro cops are pretty useless but I probably couldn't tell the difference between someone using their iPod and talking on their cellphone from the side of the road either. At least she didn't try to get a bribe but it's a shame they can't even understand something as simple as looking at your call records. Then again she probably gets every other excuse thrown at her daily as well, you could just clear any call record if you wanted.

Good luck getting it squashed. I hate the attitude of these "cops" when they won't admit they're wrong. It usually ends up even worse for you.
 
Garyvdh said:
haha... just mail the letter to the State Prosecutor. I promise, he will let you off once he sees that he really has no case. At worst he will reduce it.
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:) Thanks Gary, but I wanna hit back! I can't punch an officer so then I'd like to take them out legally.

I guess I have an underlying hatred of the coward acts they commit when they hide behind the bridges just when the highways hit 80 zones, or hide behind dustbins in 60 zones on suburban roads! Its all about the money for them not about us hence I want that to change and feel that it will if you could challenge them and make them face penalties. I dont see Metro as an asset to our society.


Alestorm said:
I know these Metro cops are pretty useless but I probably couldn't tell the difference between someone using their iPod and talking on their cellphone from the side of the road either. At least she didn't try to get a bribe but it's a shame they can't even understand something as simple as looking at your call records. Then again she probably gets every other excuse thrown at her daily as well, you could just clear any call record if you wanted.

Good luck getting it squashed. I hate the attitude of these "cops" when they won't admit they're wrong. It usually ends up even worse for you.
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Thats just it, I dont think she saw anything at all, she just saw me putting something down and assumed it was a cellphone. Thats why I'm in shock at how easy it is for them to write you up, based on what they may or may not have seen. That brings me to my point about the demerit system, it becomes easy pickings for opportunists. These rats can pull you over and claim you were doing something that you were not and threaten you with points, naturally "spot fines" will increase frequency and the amount ppl will pay to save themselves.
 
Naztyb said:
:) Thanks Gary, but I wanna hit back! I can't punch an officer so then I'd like to take them out legally.

I guess I have an underlying hatred of the coward acts they commit when they hide behind the bridges just when the highways hit 80 zones, or hide behind dustbins in 60 zones on suburban roads! Its all about the money for them not about us hence I want that to change and feel that it will if you could challenge them and make them face penalties. I dont see Metro as an asset to our society.




Thats just it, I dont think she saw anything at all, she just saw me putting something down and assumed it was a cellphone. Thats why I'm in shock at how easy it is for them to write you up, based on what they may or may not have seen. That brings me to my point about the demerit system, it becomes easy pickings for opportunists. These rats can pull you over and claim you were doing something that you were not and threaten you with points, naturally "spot fines" will increase frequency and the amount ppl will pay to save themselves.
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OK, well first step is to get your fine squashed. When you have that safely out of the way, then you lay a complaint of "conduct unbecoming" with her department supervisor. You can get the names of the department supervisors if you go to your local traffic department offices and tell them you want to lay a complaint.
 
Flanders said:
I tend to agree as it would hopefully deter these people from taking such chances. No doubt the R500 could've been squashed to a R100 KFC "spot fine" if you'd been so inclined. Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Click to expand...

I can just imagine her stopping at kfc and then eating while driving and putting oil all over the steering wheel :eek:.
 
Naztyb said:
I told her I could show her my phone logs which will prove I was not on my phone, she then changed her story saying that I was holding the phone. So I asked why can I not hold a phone, since when id holding a phone a crime.
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I believe the law is "Operating a mobile phone" under which they can screw you over for holding it. That said, officers rarely pitch to testify, so if you contest the prosecutor will withdraw. Still a pain in the arse to go to traffic court.
 
killadoob said:
I can just imagine her stopping at kfc and then eating while driving and putting oil all over the steering wheel :eek:.
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:D

KFC should come up with an uber cheap graze and call it the Metro Meal™ so that us mere mortals don't have to hoes so much on "spot fines". :p
 
I completely agree with fining drivers for playing with an iPod while driving. And a number of other distracting things people should not be doing while they're driving. This is an example of why having a law specifically for mobile phones is so stupid. We target this one activity while effectively allowing any number of other activities.

I'd be surprised if you get anywhere with this in court. It's your word against hers. The fact that you didn't make a call means nothing because it does not mean you were not busy writing a text message or in some other way playing with your phone while driving. As with any number of other offences it is going to be difficult to prove your innocence, and traffic offences are guilty until proven innocent.
 
noxibox said:
and traffic offences are guilty until proven innocent.
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Not true, the constitution states that you are innocent until proven guilty (this can not be changed by any law - even AARTO), so the onus is on the officer to prove your guilt
 
noxibox said:
I completely agree with fining drivers for playing with an iPod while driving. And a number of other distracting things people should not be doing while they're driving. This is an example of why having a law specifically for mobile phones is so stupid. We target this one activity while effectively allowing any number of other activities.

I'd be surprised if you get anywhere with this in court. It's your word against hers. The fact that you didn't make a call means nothing because it does not mean you were not busy writing a text message or in some other way playing with your phone while driving. As with any number of other offences it is going to be difficult to prove your innocence, and traffic offences are guilty until proven innocent.
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Umm no - traffic offences are not guilty until proven innocent. You might be getting a little confused with the registered owner being deemed responsible for offences committed unless indicated otherwise.
 
Naztyb said:
Hi All

Today I was happily driving through Bryanston. I lifted my ipod and changed the track as I put my ipod down there she was, a Lumpy metro cop waving her arm at me. I gently pulled off to the side, turned the radio down and rolled down my passenger window.

As she greeted me she requested my license and while I was in the process of getting my license out, she said "you were talking on your phone" I looked at her in surprize and said "no i wasn't" I have a bluetooth headset for that - showing her my headset which was next to me. she wouldn't believe it, she said no I was on my phone. I told her I could show her my phone logs which will prove I was not on my phone, she then changed her story saying that I was holding the phone. So I asked why can I not hold a phone, since when id holding a phone a crime. As she got more defensive and aggressive, I started getting a far sterner and direct trying to keep my calm.

Eventually i told her, "this is what I was doing I was changing a song and showed her my ipod, asking her since when is that a crime, she started saying "aah ipod, ipod" eventually she wrote me a R500 ticket saying that I was holding my cellular phone while driving, then asked me to sign which naturally I refused to because she had the incorrect information.

This raises a huge concern for me with the demerit system coming in. It's unbelievable how easy it is for Metro to make a claim against us and write out a ticket, naturally people will be more susceptible to offering bribes etc as they become more desperate.

I am happy to go to court and I am 200% confident that I will not have to pay a thing however I think in cases where you are found innocent you should have recourse to some payments, the state or department should be penalized and you should be paid out for having to go through the unnecessary costs of going into court etc. Once it starts costing the Metro money then we'll start seeing a change in attitude and quality.

just my thoughts after a horrible afternoon. :mad:
Click to expand...

Would that have been near the corner of Coleraine?
 
The demerit system simply means that, when you get to your last few points, you will completely stop paying admission of guilt fines, simply because you have no other choice.
 
davemc said:
The demerit system simply means that, when you get to your last few points, you will completely stop paying admission of guilt fines, simply because you have no other choice.
Click to expand...

..or never start
 
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