Metro Cops and the demerit system

Naztyb said:
Hi All

Today I was happily driving through Bryanston. I lifted my ipod and changed the track as I put my ipod down there she was, a Lumpy metro cop waving her arm at me. I gently pulled off to the side, turned the radio down and rolled down my passenger window.

As she greeted me she requested my license and while I was in the process of getting my license out, she said "you were talking on your phone" I looked at her in surprize and said "no i wasn't" I have a bluetooth headset for that - showing her my headset which was next to me. she wouldn't believe it, she said no I was on my phone. I told her I could show her my phone logs which will prove I was not on my phone, she then changed her story saying that I was holding the phone. So I asked why can I not hold a phone, since when id holding a phone a crime. As she got more defensive and aggressive, I started getting a far sterner and direct trying to keep my calm.

Eventually i told her, "this is what I was doing I was changing a song and showed her my ipod, asking her since when is that a crime, she started saying "aah ipod, ipod" eventually she wrote me a R500 ticket saying that I was holding my cellular phone while driving, then asked me to sign which naturally I refused to because she had the incorrect information.

This raises a huge concern for me with the demerit system coming in. It's unbelievable how easy it is for Metro to make a claim against us and write out a ticket, naturally people will be more susceptible to offering bribes etc as they become more desperate.

I am happy to go to court and I am 200% confident that I will not have to pay a thing however I think in cases where you are found innocent you should have recourse to some payments, the state or department should be penalized and you should be paid out for having to go through the unnecessary costs of going into court etc. Once it starts costing the Metro money then we'll start seeing a change in attitude and quality.

just my thoughts after a horrible afternoon. :mad:
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you're getting worked up about semantics. Whether you were playing with your ipod, your phone or your dick, the point is that you were distracted from the task of driving, and that is what you are being fined for. Eyes on the road!
 
Chicken Boo said:
you're getting worked up about semantics. Whether you were playing with your ipod, your phone or your dick, the point is that you were distracted from the task of driving, and that is what you are being fined for. Eyes on the road!
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Unless the OP has a fine for reckless and negligent driving then the law is quite specific. Playing with an iPod isn't an offence.

Your 'eyes on the road' comment is also misguided. I don't know about anyone else but I often take my eyes off the road - especially to look in my mirrors.
 
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Chicken Boo said:
you're getting worked up about semantics. Whether you were playing with your ipod, your phone or your dick, the point is that you were distracted from the task of driving, and that is what you are being fined for. Eyes on the road!
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There is no penalty for changing the station on your radio or smoking while you are driving. There are a hundred other things that could distract you... none of which are illegal.

The point here is that she was charged with something that she clearly was not doing. Therefore the state has no case.
 
Albereth said:
Umm no - traffic offences are not guilty until proven innocent. You might be getting a little confused with the registered owner being deemed responsible for offences committed unless indicated otherwise.
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ferdie10 said:
Not true, the constitution states that you are innocent until proven guilty (this can not be changed by any law - even AARTO), so the onus is on the officer to prove your guilt
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Doesn't matter. That is exactly how traffic offences are treated until someone decides to take it all the way to the highest court. Try going into the magistrates court and arguing that a traffic officer is making things up.
 
Albereth said:
Unless the OP has a fine for reckless and negligent driving then the law is quite specific. Playing with an iPod isn't an offence.
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That's exactly what he should have been charged with. They should in fact have arrested him and taken him to the nearest police station
 
My point here really is how easy it is to accuse us of doing something wrong even if they're mistaken, the fact is that they no here to serve and look out for our safety as they should be. They more concerned with the amount of tickets they can write out or the amount that they can bag personally.

Take today for example, there must have been about 20 odd traps around Jhb mostly on urban roads where there is a fair amount of traffic rendering them pointless. They should be dissolved and incorporated into the SAPS at least the good ones should be. this way they couldv'e been doing something more constructive like safe guarding the school where kids were been terrorized by strikers.
 
the fact is that they no here to serve and look out for our safety as they should be.
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You over-estimate "its" intelligence. Racists who prey on honest folk to make numbers. Serve anybody? Please I doubt "it" string a few sentences together coherently. The only thing "it" knows how to do is laugh, grow fat, eat sleep and provide sullen sulky guilty(because "it" knows its preying on people) words to people who are pulled over. I wonder how many non-licensed drivers "it" has pulled over? or taxis? or truck drivers? who all scream by driving with one hand, talking with the other.

Its annoying because of the inconvenience factor. Take an electric shaver to court and show the judge what you had on your seat -- then explain that "it" doesn't understand that you can't communicate through the device. You are innocent until proven guilty. Remember that.

These are the people in modern day South Africa who are chosen(job creation) to uphold the law. God help us all !
 
Naztyb said:
Yes it was, were you a victim as well?
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Nah. They are there quite often. They pulled me over once. Well, tried to. I don't do driving on the verge so the conversation is over and done with quite quickly when the plod is standing in a busy road trying to have a conversation through a narrow gap in my window.

They asked me if I had a phone - not that it has anything to do with them.
 
noxibox said:
That's exactly what he should have been charged with. They should in fact have arrested him and taken him to the nearest police station
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And there is ansolutely no subjectivity in this at all. One could argue that merely driving in this town is a reckless act.
 
Albereth said:
And there is ansolutely no subjectivity in this at all. One could argue that merely driving in this town is a reckless act.
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Of course there is. If the cop says it happened, then it happened. You have to convince the magistrate otherwise.
 
noxibox said:
Of course there is. If the cop says it happened, then it happened. You have to convince the magistrate otherwise.
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Actually, nope....

The cop has to convince the magistrate it happened... Innocent until proven guilty, and a cops word is not evidence enough.
 
Well actually, a student drove into the rear of my bakkie when he operated is ipod(or that is what he said and I believe him, he wasn't drunk or anything so had no need to lie).

But ja, the ticket wasn't for operating your loose mp3 player, it was for a mobile phone, which is a tacnicallity. But the metro must start to get their facts straight.
 
unskinnybob said:
I believe the law is "Operating a mobile phone" under which they can screw you over for holding it. That said, officers rarely pitch to testify, so if you contest the prosecutor will withdraw. Still a pain in the arse to go to traffic court.
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The law is holding a cellphone while driving.
 
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