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Question of the Day: Have you ever been to an airshow?
Microsoft and open source
- Thread starter rpm
- Start date
MielieSpoor
Expert Member
Yes and I read both sides of the story when it comes to the hogwash Rob Weir spits out on OOXML.
Have you ever entered a competition?
Have you ever accepted a product sample?
Have you ever taken the flyers stuffed through your window at a robot?
Have you ever swallowed alcohol that you did not pay for?
Wake up, and realise that this world thrives precisely because of free things. You are pathetic for not seeing that!
Rob Wier spits out hogwash, MS spits out hogwash - let's have a good old fight about who spits out more hogwash. At the end of the day, we're subject to rumours, 2nd hand access to information, etc. you can't definitely say that what Rob Wier has said is wrong because you are/were not there. Note I'm not saying that he is right but unless I see definitive proof to the contrary, I'll lay of the bashing.
What is true is the following:
1. I've not used an MS product for the last 6 years in any direct fashion; the fact that SBIC ATM's run XP is to their detriment ( and to mine unfortunately as an SBIC client ). The amount of SBIC ATM's that are down or faulty is way above the level of any other competing bank using non-MS systems - this is fact and acknowledged by SBIC ( I've a number of support tickets pending with them if you'd like to see ).
From SBIC:
"As per our telephonic conversation yesterday, our Internet Banking
> department is well aware of the problems surrounding the slow
> responses or the Internet been down around month end. They are
> currently addressing the issue at present. With regard to your ATM
> concerns, as discussed yesterday, I will place this matter on record
> with the relevant business unit to address it going forward.
"
There's a lot more ...
2. there is more than enough proof that Microsoft provoked/created/stacked the OOXML debacle - this is indisputable unless you've bee living under a rock for the last 2 years - even the ISO now agree that the OOXML process was flawed
3. while I might sound anti-MS, I actually have a different opinion of some the products they've delivered over the years and I happen to believe that when MS devs are given free reign, they can put out some decent stuff - while I may complain about them from time to time does not mean I am anti-MS; just take a look at some of the great work being done between the Samba team and MS after MS lost the legal suit in the EU. A week ago, the Samba finally managed to get a samba4 AD to completely replace an MS AD in all functionality, including AD replication - with help from Microsoft!!! I have complaints of other companies as well ( even OSS companies ) by the way
4. Microsoft have yet to show any substantial goodwill to their consumers and the market in general. Until they do so, how can you take anything they say in terms of OSS as valid and trustworthy - trust takes time to build
5. Microsoft is driven in part by the requirement to satisfy their shareholders - shareholders want money and not much else. How do you align a profit-driven requirement with a community-driven spirit - with difficulty according to MS' past performance
6. I believe that Microsoft's attempts up to now in terms of community relations have been all talk and no walk - they just don't get the gist of OSS. I also believe that they need to embrace OSS otherwise fail in the long term. Community-style development has a place in the broader commercial market and those that have taken the plunge are reaping the rewards. Microsoft needs to understand this single fact and change - no change leads to stagnation and that will lead to their downfall.
7. Windows-related products remain the single biggest factor in terms of both malware and spam propagation Internet-wide. Most companies that track these items, have the bare data to support the fact that 99%+ of all crap on the internet is generated by Windows botnet-controlled systems. Are you telling me that you're not upset with MS at all for the fact that their insecure OS platforms and applications are filling up your inbox with rubbish everyday, possibly pilfering your passwords and banking info, and subsuming your identity? Oh and at the last count, Finjan (a security researcher ) found a botnet of almost 1.9 million PC's - all Windows. Let's not even start the argument about Linux not having any footprint and therefore security by obscurity - Linux has a far larger footprint than MS in the Internet space, which is arguably the more important
In conclusion, MS designed a platform that has great underpinnings ( the NT kernel ) yet has been saddled by user-level rubbish for 20 years. Many are not aware that NT as a kernel has all the security that anyone would need ( easily on par with the best of Unix systems ), yet Microsoft have never taken advantage of those features for reasons like backwards compatibility, marketing/management requirements and supporting an infrastructure that is failing under its own weight. Until MS has me as a consumer in mind in terms of security, I'll continue to use alternate systems.
Regards
What is true is the following:
1. I've not used an MS product for the last 6 years in any direct fashion; the fact that SBIC ATM's run XP is to their detriment ( and to mine unfortunately as an SBIC client ). The amount of SBIC ATM's that are down or faulty is way above the level of any other competing bank using non-MS systems - this is fact and acknowledged by SBIC ( I've a number of support tickets pending with them if you'd like to see ).
From SBIC:
"As per our telephonic conversation yesterday, our Internet Banking
> department is well aware of the problems surrounding the slow
> responses or the Internet been down around month end. They are
> currently addressing the issue at present. With regard to your ATM
> concerns, as discussed yesterday, I will place this matter on record
> with the relevant business unit to address it going forward.
"
There's a lot more ...
2. there is more than enough proof that Microsoft provoked/created/stacked the OOXML debacle - this is indisputable unless you've bee living under a rock for the last 2 years - even the ISO now agree that the OOXML process was flawed
3. while I might sound anti-MS, I actually have a different opinion of some the products they've delivered over the years and I happen to believe that when MS devs are given free reign, they can put out some decent stuff - while I may complain about them from time to time does not mean I am anti-MS; just take a look at some of the great work being done between the Samba team and MS after MS lost the legal suit in the EU. A week ago, the Samba finally managed to get a samba4 AD to completely replace an MS AD in all functionality, including AD replication - with help from Microsoft!!! I have complaints of other companies as well ( even OSS companies ) by the way
4. Microsoft have yet to show any substantial goodwill to their consumers and the market in general. Until they do so, how can you take anything they say in terms of OSS as valid and trustworthy - trust takes time to build
5. Microsoft is driven in part by the requirement to satisfy their shareholders - shareholders want money and not much else. How do you align a profit-driven requirement with a community-driven spirit - with difficulty according to MS' past performance
6. I believe that Microsoft's attempts up to now in terms of community relations have been all talk and no walk - they just don't get the gist of OSS. I also believe that they need to embrace OSS otherwise fail in the long term. Community-style development has a place in the broader commercial market and those that have taken the plunge are reaping the rewards. Microsoft needs to understand this single fact and change - no change leads to stagnation and that will lead to their downfall.
7. Windows-related products remain the single biggest factor in terms of both malware and spam propagation Internet-wide. Most companies that track these items, have the bare data to support the fact that 99%+ of all crap on the internet is generated by Windows botnet-controlled systems. Are you telling me that you're not upset with MS at all for the fact that their insecure OS platforms and applications are filling up your inbox with rubbish everyday, possibly pilfering your passwords and banking info, and subsuming your identity? Oh and at the last count, Finjan (a security researcher ) found a botnet of almost 1.9 million PC's - all Windows. Let's not even start the argument about Linux not having any footprint and therefore security by obscurity - Linux has a far larger footprint than MS in the Internet space, which is arguably the more important
In conclusion, MS designed a platform that has great underpinnings ( the NT kernel ) yet has been saddled by user-level rubbish for 20 years. Many are not aware that NT as a kernel has all the security that anyone would need ( easily on par with the best of Unix systems ), yet Microsoft have never taken advantage of those features for reasons like backwards compatibility, marketing/management requirements and supporting an infrastructure that is failing under its own weight. Until MS has me as a consumer in mind in terms of security, I'll continue to use alternate systems.
Regards
Rob is 2x biased because he is employed by IBM on ODF.
Why not turn to an IT journalist, read here: http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/search/label/ooxml
Have fun coming to the same conclusions.
reddevilandy10
Senior Member
Not OSS related but the latest fiasco from Microsoft: http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/10/15/microsofts-pinkdanger-backup-problem-blamed-on-roz-ho/
McGuywer
Executive Member
Steve wasn't CEO in 2001...
Rouxenator
Dank meme lord
I am not anti Mircrosoft at all. It is sad that only those that care to go to M$ events see how much they are doing to embrace open source software.
Sure they are a business and they will have some closed sourced products to sell for profit, but they are no where near as closed source as Apple for that matter.
Microsoft has made a few mistakes in the past and they are learning from it. They have identified a couple of places where integration with open sources will be benificial for everyone and that is great.
Sure they are a business and they will have some closed sourced products to sell for profit, but they are no where near as closed source as Apple for that matter.
Microsoft has made a few mistakes in the past and they are learning from it. They have identified a couple of places where integration with open sources will be benificial for everyone and that is great.
adrianx
Expert Member
"Microsoft learning from their mistakes". Please!
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20090908164954318
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20090908164954318
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eltherza
Expert Member
I'm buying Windows 7, it's a good product, but it doesnt make me distrust MS any less. Other than DirectX and Windows as an OS, I dont use Microsoft products - I'm forced at work to use Outlook though.
Having said that, I also completely distrust google... but that's not going to stop me using gmail (and google search), as gmail is far superior to any other web based mail.
Joy-Energiser
Senior Member
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2006
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Yes the world loves having free things, but it doesn't survive and run on "free things"
Comparing free hand outs to Professionally developed OS's and programs is just naive.
Yes Open Source is great, but open source wouldn't exist with out a proper product based software market to fall back on.
The saying Nothing comes for free comes to mind.
I might have been a tad apprehensive in my first post, it's just that I see so many hypocritical sentiments and attitudes among a section of the software development community that lambaste Microsoft in favour of Open source endeavours, while they freely use multiple microsoft based products themselves.
Give credit where credit is due.
adrianx
Expert Member
It is almost as bad as people singing Microsoft's praises and yet they use pirated copies of the OS and other Windows-only software. Sick.
Free hand outs?
If it is so naive to do that comparison, then please explain to me why the so-called "free hand-out's" penetration into the server market has been so successful. Please also explain to me why MS is so damn concerned about linux if the comparison is so naive.
I still do not see how you can claim that so many anti-ms people use ms software.
Personally, I do not have a problem with microsoft software. Horses for courses. If the application fits, and covers your requirement, then by all means, use it. What really gets me, is misinformation, and FUD.
Do not fool yourself into believing that OSS is simply a free handout. It is way bigger than that. As an example, please go and do a quick comparison on free hand-out Apache vs. IIS on production systems on the net right now.
eltherza
Expert Member
Ok, use gmail? use firefox? use hotmail? use bing? Google docs?
Did you ever use... wiki? or how about facebook (as evil as it is)? Hmmmm, I know you never even considered google search right? Opera on your phone? How about a download manager? Or a torrent? or even Skype?
Ever use winamp, AIMP2 (highly recommended), mySQL, eclipse, netbeans?
Or even google talk, developed on the xmpp protocol? Jabber? No... hmmm, I know you definitely dont use AVG, nor Comodo Firewall!
Because, although they arent all open source, they are all "Free" to use or download.
Dont judge "free" while online, because almost all content online is free.
Have you ever heard of Google; Apache; Mozilla Corp and a shiiiite load of others... all surviving on free.
So Windows is perfect? Ja thought so.
You work for MS then. Riight.
Got Google? Try it. You'll be surprised what's out there.
Being anti-MS is not about the products. It's about the company: what they stand for; how they do business; their morals and ethics just disgust me; their two-faced approach (it's okay for them to sue Tom-Tom for patent infringement and to deny lenience, yet they REQUIRE lenience when they lose a patent infringement case and a google-load of other stuff comes to mind.
If you believe that your an idiot.
Please show me the world thriving on free things.
You just mentioned 3 advertising gimmicks there, to SELL stuff moron.
And you other idiots who think google is free, are big smelly idiots.
Tried watching a youtube clip lately with out having advertising rammed down your throat?
None of it is free. Someone has paid for it. Unless your narrowminded definition of free is "free for me".
They offer you a tool for "free" in the hope you will buy one of their clients products which paid for the app.
And you know what, they doing it cause the business model works. You idiots are out there handing out your money believeing you got something for free.
Essentially, you are PAYING for your free app. You are now buying something you wouldnt have previously bought unless you were using your "free" tool.
Advertising, Premium versions, etc. All designed to ultimately take money out your pocket. And you idiots fall for it.
And dont go "Well I dont do that" cause you do, else Google wouldnt be in business.
At least MS has the honesty to make you pay upfront.
But hey, why am I complaining, it is you guys that are making me a rich man. Thanks.
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Lightscribe
Banned
The love goes way back...
It's still FREE - ****wit. Get the point or shut up.
Don't watch YouTube - this is SAfrica remember - Where broadband doesn't exist, despite SEACOM. Filter it out with Adblock Plus, oh wait, you can't do that because you'e an MS fanboi.
Ahh, so THAT's the extent of your knowledge on the subject...
Grow a brain, when you've done that we might be able to have intelligent debate.
I live and work in OpenSource. I contribute and consume. You complain and FUD - so grow up. When you are dry behind the ears then come back and talk.