Microsoft Cert vs University degree : dev

kingrob said:
It all depends if you want to relocate to Europe, or America, in the near future.

The degree won't help much, but a Microsoft certification is recognized worldwide.

But if you're planning to stay in South Africa, the degree is definitely the best option.

Ultimate option : degree + Microsoft certification. :)
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Noooooo! :D. The opposite. Both the US and the UK now require NQF 6 level (BSc Hons) qualifications for their skilled work visas. Even if you you've got a passport for the country, the better jobs greatly prefer NQF 6 level qualifications.
 
kingrob said:
No, not at all.

When I worked in the UK, the only qualification I had to produce, was my Microsoft one, and I got the job.

Worked there for almost five years and it was Microsoft all the way.

Most of the recruiters did not have any knowledge about South African universities/technikons.

It might have changed now?
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Tier 2 visas require NQF 6 or above now. If the recruiters you dealt with had no knowledge of SA degrees, and didn't know how to rank them, then they were utterly incompetent. This is a basic process for any recruiter. Especially in London, where there are so many foreign skilled workers around.
 
cguy said:
Tier 2 visas require NQF 6 or above now. If the recruiters you dealt with had no knowledge of SA degrees, and didn't know how to rank them, then they were utterly incompetent. This is a basic process for any recruiter. Especially in London, where there are so many foreign skilled workers around.
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I started in London in 1999, when there was a huge shortage of trained IT people and the Y2K bug was looming. :)

Like I have said in a previous post, it might have changed since then.

Do any of you actually read my posts properly? :(
 
I worked in Ireland in 99 and my degrees were fully recognized. kingrob, you situation is strange indeed and I doubt if it can be treated as a rule.

Note, when I read a CV, I actively look for degrees but only glance at certifications. But that might be my personal bias and the bias of the company I work for.
 
gkm said:
I worked in Ireland in 99 and my degrees were fully recognized. kingrob, you situation is strange indeed and I doubt if it can be treated as a rule.

Note, when I read a CV, I actively look for degrees but only glance at certifications. But that might be my personal bias and the bias of the company I work for.
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Yeah, I was working and doing post-grad work in '99, and most of my honours year fellow graduates from earlier had all been pulled over to the US and Europe. It was a crazy time everywhere - I am sure that certs and degrees were both in demand and ensured employment, but I am fairly certain that CS degrees were the most highly prized. Certainly, SA degrees were recognized everywhere (although the US required at least Honours to bring over a new-grad).
 
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Just asking the Q means you probably first need to do a BA. The Humanities will answer the question. ;)

Seriously, consider why it's called a university. Breadth. Depth. Height.

A vendor-specific certification is narrow - the very opposite of a university degree.

First get an education. Once that's done, consider a qualification.
 
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Mike Smit said:
Me neither ;)
I did a 3 year programming diploma back in the day, just so I had papers to prove I could code. Never had problems with finding work or income since then.
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I don't think anyone is saying you won't get a job without degree, cert etc., rather that its more likely that you will get a job with them, simply because your cv is more likely to be placed in the "Interview these noobs pile " :)

It's bad advice telling any kid, you don't need to bother with any formal education.
 
zippy said:
I don't think anyone is saying you won't get a job without degree, cert etc., rather that its more likely that you will get a job with them, simply because your cv is more likely to be placed in the "Interview these noobs pile " :)

It's bad advice telling any kid, you don't need to bother with any formal education.
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Not saying that. Just responding to a post.
I ensure my own kids get A's in their exams and in 2015 they will go to varsity. No choice in the matter.

For me, I got into IT 20 odd years ago. So while I don't have a degree I do have a degree equivalent diploma and 20 odd years experience. Don't think you can get away with that today to start out.
 
Degree teach you how to think. After that you can build up knowledge in specific areas.
Certification is just that, a certification. And the one in question here is linked to a specific company.

Why not rather skill up on things like, networking(TCP/IP), programming (C, Python).
 
Nephew_ said:
Degree teach you how to think. After that you can build up knowledge in specific areas.
Certification is just that, a certification. And the one in question here is linked to a specific company.

Why not rather skill up on things like, networking(TCP/IP), programming (C, Python).
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So if you have a applicant in front of you with matric and a Red Hat Certified Engineer certificate or Microsoft MCITP certificate, would you rather give the network administrator job to the graduate?
 
You do not need a degree to be able to be a good developer, some people out there without a degree are really good at their trade.
A degree will definitely help get jobs though and is an educational investment.

Sorry to derail the thread slightly but anyone done any java certs?
Or more specifically Android?

I'm learning Android but my java skills are lacking.
So I thought about learning java first and then thought, why not get a java cert while I'm at it?
It has to be something short though, like two months because I have unisa studies again next semester.
 
kingrob said:
So if you have a applicant in front of you with matric and a Red Hat Certified Engineer certificate or Microsoft MCITP certificate, would you rather give the network administrator job to the graduate?
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What does network admin have to do with anything? We're talking about dev qualifications.

But to answer your question, I would give it to whoever interviews better. Basing a hiring decision on a qualification is inane.
 
cguy said:
What does network admin have to do with anything? We're talking about dev qualifications.

But to answer your question, I would give it to whoever interviews better. Basing a hiring decision on a qualification is inane.
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I'm getting a bit irritated now with these posts, cos you clearly have difficulty reading.

He said in his first post he is doing the Server 2012 stuff.

And if you hire technical people because they're nice to you in an interview, I sure as hell don't want to be the CEO of your company.
 
kingrob said:
It might have changed now?
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kingrob said:
Like I have said in a previous post, it might have changed since then.

Do any of you actually read my posts properly? :(
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Just to be clear, you didn't state anything: You asked a question, and seem to be annoyed that I answered it.

kingrob said:
I'm getting a bit irritated now with these posts, cos you clearly have difficulty reading.

He said in his first post he is doing the Server 2012 stuff.
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The title of this thread is "Microsoft Cert vs University degree : dev". The OP was just stating what he/she has done or is doing. The OP is also doing a B.Sc. (and I doubt the major is network administration), and likely wants to know which to choose given only one option.

kingrob said:
And if you hire technical people because they're nice to you in an interview, I sure as hell don't want to be the CEO of your company.
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If in your experience "interviews better" for a Network Admin (or Developer) position means being "nice to you in an interview", then you are clearly out of your depth here.
 
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Varsity trains you to think and to be adaptable*. Certs make you competent in a specific area.

If you want a job quickly, go for certs. If you want to progress, i.e. have a career, go for degree. My opinion (like most in this thread), degree first then certs if you young enough and no dependents. Otherwise degree while certs; its difficult but it will pay off in the end.

*I know a guy who studied BEng e+e but now runs a fish factory. I asked him why an engineer became a veritable fish monger, he replied "I like fishing!" :) He makes millions a year.
Another guy has a BA in human resources; he is a unit trust manager. Weird, since Arts has nothing really to do with maths/stats or economics. But he makes a mil a year.
Moral of the story: adaptability.
Note that these guys put in a lot of hard work and determination to get where they are and thoroughly deserve it.
 
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