Microsoft users to choose their own Internet browser

[Xyber]

I use FF and Chrome as my browsers but is it fair to ask MS to not include their browser in their OS? It is like buying a Merc and then complaining that it has Mercedes mags on. You don't want to replace the mags, you want the car without any wheels when you get it.

+1. Use Firefox myself, but wtf, they don't go around telling Apple to put browser choise screens in OSX or ... oh wait, just figured it out. They are just after MS cause IE is not open, Safarai on OSX and Firefox (and other) distributed on Linux flavours are open source.
But still, they should think of a better way of letting the public know that there exist other browsers that can do the job better and follow standards better.

 

[rkcj]

If Microsoft didn’t include IE with the OS, how would you surf the internet to download an alternative browser? Install a browser from disk that you have to buy from a shop?

 

[LazyLion]

If Microsoft didn’t include IE with the OS, how would you surf the internet to download an alternative browser? Install a browser from disk that you have to buy from a shop?

That was why the EU rejected Microsoft's first proposal. But I am sure there are ways you can get around having no browser... as long as the OS itself can render pages... and it often does... inside outlook and other e-mail clients, inside help menus, etc. You can also send a message for a page request to a web to e-mail responder.

 

[trancehead]

That was why the EU rejected Microsoft's first proposal. But I am sure there are ways you can get around having no browser... as long as the OS itself can render pages... and it often does... inside outlook and other e-mail clients, inside help menus, etc. You can also send a message for a page request to a web to e-mail responder.

And that is easier than just showing a window of the most popular browsers? :wtf:

 

[LazyLion]

And that is easier than just showing a window of the most popular browsers? :wtf:

no, everybody thought that Microsoft's first proposal was dumb... that was why they came back with this option .. .which is admittedly the best way of complying with the ruling.

I was just pointing out that it is possible to get stuff without an active browser as long as the OS can still render pages (which is actually a built in engine anyway... but MS has been doing that for years). But it is pretty complicated... but not impossible.

personally I think they should have just left it as it was and let people make up their own minds.

 

[murraybiscuit]

If Microsoft didn’t include IE with the OS, how would you surf the internet to download an alternative browser? Install a browser from disk that you have to buy from a shop?

how about if a user clicks on a bat script which writes the output of a telnet GET command on port 80 to a setup file?
you could have a bat download script for each browser and a nice little text readme file.
i mean it's possible in theory.

 

[herbertk]

Chrome FTW... ha ha is SA we have to choiches for IE take it or leave it... but bundled it shall be...

 

[porchrat]

If Microsoft didn’t include IE with the OS, how would you surf the internet to download an alternative browser? Install a browser from disk that you have to buy from a shop?

The core functionality (and yes they have many other functions) of a browser is to render a series of HTML elements into a beautiful page full of LOLcats. You don't require HTML rendering to download a file off the internet. Therefore you don't require a browser to get the installer for the desired browser.

 

[LazyLion]

The core functionality (and yes they have many other functions) of a browser is to render a series of HTML elements into a beautiful page full of LOLcats. You don't require HTML rendering to download a file off the internet. Therefore you don't require a browser to get the installer for the desired browser.

but you do need a link... and place to paste it... like a download manager!

 

[murraybiscuit]

see earlier post.

 

[rkcj]

The core functionality (and yes they have many other functions) of a browser is to render a series of HTML elements into a beautiful page full of LOLcats. You don't require HTML rendering to download a file off the internet. Therefore you don't require a browser to get the installer for the desired browser.

I’m guessing this is the sort of solution MS has implemented, because they were forced to.

All I am saying is that if MS hadn’t included IE with the OS, where would the browser come from. I remember in the Mid 90’s having to load Netscape from a floppy because Windows 3.11 didn’t have an inbuilt browser, what a pain. Should we have stayed with this procedure?

P.S. I’m no IE fanboy, I use Firefox. It was nice and simple to open IE, go to the Firefox download link and install from there. I don’t need an additional application that helps me decide which browser I would like to use.

 

[DavidJ]

What about SA?
We also want freedom of choice!

You already have freedom of choice, you can download and install any of those free browsers. Firefox, Chrome, Safari, Opera and more, these are all free to download off the Internet and install and use. I don't think I've used IE in 10 years, except when I absolutely need to or am testing websites.

 

[apogeeza]

Interesting. You managed to "be in the web development industry" before there was a html standard, a browser or a even a industry.

The internet in 1990 was very well established before the www portion of it became big as it is today, yes even before standards (why do you think standards have to be created...) Looking at the internet through 2010-rose tinted goggles does not do you justice, else you would not have said:

Do you own a time machine?

Aaah, I get it now.

RickJ is offline
Junior Member

Join Date
May 2006
Posts
8

Friggen newbie.

 

[porchrat]

I’m guessing this is the sort of solution MS has implemented, because they were forced to.

All I am saying is that if MS hadn’t included IE with the OS, where would the browser come from. I remember in the Mid 90’s having to load Netscape from a floppy because Windows 3.11 didn’t have an inbuilt browser, what a pain. Should we have stayed with this procedure?

P.S. I’m no IE fanboy, I use Firefox. It was nice and simple to open IE, go to the Firefox download link and install from there. I don’t need an additional application that helps me decide which browser I would like to use.

Oh no I agree with you 100% that it is ridiculously complex. However it is possible to get the installer without actually having the browser.

Of course the whole house of cards falls down unless the local app you are using to fetch the installer somehow knows the location of the installer file you desire. I wonder: had Microsoft done that initially with IE would they be facing the same level of opposition from the EC that they do now? I mean they wouldn't need to include locations for opposition installers and technically they wouldn't be bundling IE with Windows. Win-win for MS IMO.

 

[Curtix2]

I think the ruling is a bit silly.
Are people really to stupid to open IE / Download Firefox / Enjoy!
Plus all sorts of software require IE (and outlook - See Pastel) for that matter.
I don't like they do, but heck are people REALLY bothered that IE is already on there machine, what about Windows Calculator / Notepad / etc.
Silliness.

 

[xumwun]

They forget what IE is for (Downloading Firefox/chrome/opera)
What are you supposed to use now?

 

[PeterCH]

another dose of hand-holding from the mother of all nanny states, the eu.

You heard about the refusal to share EU member states SWIFT data with the US recently? They're not all bad.

there's a very fine line between creating equal opportunity and enforcing equality.

Yes and MS could have adhered to that, instead they leveraged one monopoly to gain another (monopoly in PC OS'es into a monopoly in browsers).
The EU action is corrective. It's like forcing the guy who was vandalising walls with graffiti to do community clean up duty.

the increase in popularity of alternative browsers and operating systems shows that the market is already self-regulating.
so just leave it alone and have some patience.

Well when some play unfairly, the government has to step in to correct the unfairness. OSX and Linux are not really making a dent in the Windoze monopoly.

through forced, artificial equality, you're effectively doing affirmative action on the os front.
it's cosmetic, and doesn't deal with the real issues.

At least it brings it to the attention of millions of zombie users that the "e" icon is not necessary for "internet" access.

if people choose something and are happy with it, it's their democratic right to do so.

You're still free to choose IE or any of the other browsers. You can also download any browser you want.

let the market dictate what it wants, who wants it and how it is delivered.
otherwise people will make the wrong choices next time and the next time...
come on eu, let your people grow up, stop treating them like children.

LOL. I don't understand you.

EDIT: okay, let me clarify - consumers have always had a choice of an alternative browser.

Well we had Netscape till IE killed that superior browser. IE was bundled with the illegally bundled Win.

if a vendor wants to bundle free software with their os, that's their prerogative.

NOT if they have a monopoly in the OS market and create a second monopoly in the browser market to force their own standards on everyone else.

the eu court is engaging os issues on the wrong front.

Right, they left it alone, it didn't help. Your option was tried and was a fail.

 

[PeterCH]

I think the ruling is a bit silly.
Are people really to stupid to open IE / Download Firefox / Enjoy!

No. They're not stupid. They just don't know better because they're too busy possibly - working...... eh? Not everyone is a browser/internet/CPU expert.

Plus all sorts of software require IE (and outlook - See Pastel) for that matter.

Trident is left in place. MS fused Trident into the OS on purpose anyway.

I don't like they do, but heck are people REALLY bothered that IE is already on there machine, what about Windows Calculator / Notepad / etc.
Silliness.

MS forced makers to sell people DOS and Windoze in the 90s with new systems. Then MS used that artificially created monopoly to force IE on every machine. With IE there, why bother with Netscape?
Then MS used their IE advantage to change web standards. That earned them $$$ too. Now if MS did the same with Calculators - the same would happen.

 

[griddy]

I see no problem with IE included in the OS. If you don't have the tech savy to try other browser,that's your problem. If I buy a Ferrari,I want a Ferrari steering wheel. I can always fit my VW steeringwheel later. :3