Microsoft Windows 8 Release Preview

@Arthur

A new UI to handle a non keyboard device with a restricted screen size is a given.

Forcing, without any redeeming feature, the same UI on devices with keyboards which already have a totally accepted and standard UI is not acceptable. There is no technical reason as to why the Win7 desktop experience cannot propagate to Win8.

There are some unintended consequences of Win8 in its current form. For instance John Everyone goes into ComputeShop and buys a new laptop, with perfectly reasonable expectation that its UI will not massively deviate from all the previous laptops he has used in the last 15 years. He instead encounters Win8 as we see it today and finds the machine unusable. Ah, but he has been given the option to install Win7 as an alternative OS. Who bears the cost of this re install? Microsoft??? And, yes, I am aware that this isn't a time consuming task for tech savvy user, but for the greater majority it's a step too far.
Bekdik, are you aware that Win8 has the Desktop, which is almost exactly like Win7? I don't understand your remarks about "forcing" - it's one click and you have a desktop (at least on x86 systems - I can't see an app-compatible desktop on ARM). No need to propagate a Desktop - it's already there.

Someone who buys an Intel-based notebook or system with Win8 installed will never need to install Win7. For what - he gets everything Win7 does already (except a Start button), and a bit more besides.
 
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Yes, I agree that a common and Open standard would be great for the industry. And I'm sure it'll come at some point in the future - probably by being rendered unnecessary because machines will have the nous to know what you want to do and interpret it correctly. In other words, when the various layers are so modularised and capable that they can work with anything else. That's still some decades off, I suspect.

We're only 30 years into the cycle, and in the meantime it's a major expense to engineer a UI, so commercial companies need some way to recoup their investment and differentiate. There's still a lot of invention and innovation happening, which requires a patent system to protect those who spend the money doing the work (otherwise competitors can get the benefit for free and so undercut the inventors, which destroys the innovation cycle). I don't know many software engineers who work for free.

Patent-free / Open system are almost by definition a few cycles behind the curve. It's just the way the universe works, not a conspiracy.

Its not helping when a company openly attack another that found a way to feed its engineers and make it available for free.

As for open system being always behind? I am not so sure about that, loads of things that I have encountered in the open systems that only got incorporated years later in closed ones.
 
The main problem is they've added a UI interface which was intended for one method of controlling, but must be used for another - where it doesn't work nearly as well. And the former interface which was comfortable and more or less worked, they have removed, so that their bread and butter client base - casual PC users/gamers etc - get the worst end of the deal.
 
The main problem is they've added a UI interface which was intended for one method of controlling, but must be used for another - where it doesn't work nearly as well. And the former interface which was comfortable and more or less worked, they have removed, so that their bread and butter client base - casual PC users/gamers etc - get the worst end of the deal.
How is this worse in any conceivable way? The normal desktop is one click away? And in Win8 it has better graphics and multi-monitor support, a superior graphics subsystem, and is faster than in Win7. What does anyone actually lose? To start an app, 99.9999% of users in any case need one click on the their current desktop (assuming there's an icon to start the game/app). It's the same in Win8. One click, either in Metro or on Desktop. Seriously - one click. Voila.
 
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How I the worse? The normal desktop is one click away? And in Win8 it has better graphics and multi-monitor support, a superior graphics subsystem, and is faster than in Win7. What does anyone actually lose?

It's the disjunction between the two interfaces that causes the problem. Yes it's one click away but every time you do it, it yanks you out of one reality into another totally different one. And casual users, I would bet, are going to find that experience so disorienting that they will end up pinning everything onto the 'normal' desktop. Which will result in even worse desktop clutter than they already have now.

I work with these kinds of people every single day. They will consider a desktop with 100+ items, mixed between documents and app shortcuts, to be supremely well organised because they have the documents in alphabetical order; and dare you assist them by showing them Fences or say... Windows Explorer, they will never forgive you. It's like Heidi's uncle's wardrobe in there.
 
It's the disjunction between the two interfaces that causes the problem. Yes it's one click away but every time you do it, it yanks you out of one reality into another totally different one. And casual users, I would bet, are going to find that experience so disorienting that they will end up pinning everything onto the 'normal' desktop. Which will result in even worse desktop clutter than they already have now.

I work with these kinds of people every single day. They will consider a desktop with 100+ items, mixed between documents and app shortcuts, to be supremely well organised because they have the documents in alphabetical order; and dare you assist them by showing them Fences or say... Windows Explorer, they will never forgive you. It's like Heidi's uncle's wardrobe in there.
Hehe. Yes, I know exactly what you mean. It never ceases to astonish me how cluttered and chaotic the ornery user's desktop is - dozens of icons, folders, shortcuts, install-residues, etc. One would think they would have learned by now to take the trouble to learn basics and get organised.

It's these users who just love an iPad. Speak to them, and ask questions. It illustrates exactly why we have this bifurcated world.

Now in Win8, the real difference between Metro and Desktop comes down to only one thing -- full-screen vs windows (in the generic sense).

The better way to describe Win8 is it supports a full-screen environment and a windowing environment. And depending on what apps you use, the system will switch you between those.

Over time, Metro can help this situation ("desktop with 100+ items, mixed between documents and app shortcuts" as you say), and make our lives easier. But it can't happen overnight.

Yes, it feels clunky at first. But what is the way round this given the three imperative to (i) retain legacy app compatibility, which is windowed and fully available in the 'traditional' Desktop and (ii) introduce a full-screen ("immersive" is the marketing jargon) environment suited to smaller or touch-enabled displays, and (iii) introduce a new API set that is much more secure and reliable than Win32 and which for deep technical reasons cannot retain app compatibility with legacy apps.

How would you handle the transition?
 
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The first thing I would have done is sandboxed the desktop clearly to make sure that it could stand apart in an absolute sense. Then I would have striven towards a desktop focused design that was elegant and beautiful in the Metro language (typeface-driven, flat, sweeping, lightly accented) but still able to stand out in a distinct way. I would have deemphasized the Ribbon and striven to make the deep functionality of core apps integrated naturally into the UI. I would have had confidence that the PC was still a valid pursuit and my role was to ensure its vitality for the sake of the hardware vendors.

To be honest, I would have severed the versions of Win8 from the outset - ARM/tiles and X86(or new API)/Metro language - and produced two distinct release release models, one aimed at tablet vendors and one at enterprise/commercial desktop. They needed a new metaphor for the desktop, where tiles have been a great metaphor for the touchscreen. And they didn't even try to make that happen.
 
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Bekdik, are you aware that Win8 has the Desktop, which is almost exactly like Win7? I don't understand your remarks about "forcing" - it's one click and you have a desktop (at least on x86 systems - I can't see an app-compatible desktop on ARM). No need to propagate a Desktop - it's already there.

Someone who buys an Intel-based notebook or system with Win8 installed will never need to install Win7. For what - he gets everything Win7 does already (except a Start button), and a bit more besides.

Yes, fully aware.

I am equally aware that the navigation from that desktop entails losing view of the desktop, scrolling through a flat view of everything installed to find the app required. For the non techie, this is confusing, and worse, not necessary.

The obvious solution is, as this is version 1 of Metro, to include both Metro and the standard navigation methodology. This would very quickly :

  1. Allow people to migrate to Metro as sole method because they take to it
  2. Remain on the standard windows navigation and for Micosoft to make it optional non keyboard devices
 
Yes, fully aware.

I am equally aware that the navigation from that desktop entails losing view of the desktop, scrolling through a flat view of everything installed to find the app required. For the non techie, this is confusing, and worse, not necessary.

The obvious solution is, as this is version 1 of Metro, to include both Metro and the standard navigation methodology. This would very quickly :

  1. Allow people to migrate to Metro as sole method because they take to it
  2. Remain on the standard windows navigation and for Micosoft to make it optional non keyboard devices

Or integrate Metro style navigation inside the desktop experience, so by say pressing the Start Menu button you brought up a windowed Metro space. Within the desktop, you could treat it as an application.
 
Or integrate Metro style navigation inside the desktop experience, so by say pressing the Start Menu button you brought up a windowed Metro space. Within the desktop, you could treat it as an application.

Or even simpler, include a drop down menu.

Also there does not seem to be any way of getting a shortcut to the desktop, other than as part of setup; maybe I missed it.
 
@Cerebus and Bekdik: I agree that is one perfectly possible approach.

But to accomplish an RT-based windowing environment on the Desktop would require a further abstraction of either RT and Win32 or the Desktop, so they could call a common UI as required. That adds another layer in the architecture, with attendant security and performance penalties, and makes Windows even more byzantine - exactly the opposite of MSFT and industry direction.

To bring out two separate versions is certainly an easy technical decision, though rather more nettlesome from a marketing viewpoint. I know this was hugely debated inside MSFT, with many compelling arguments in favour. From a technical viewpoint it's pretty easy. One reason why it's less attractive is because it re-establishes a dual code base for Windows (much like the old days when we had DOS+Win on the one hand, and NT codebase on the other).

Another reason is that both the industry and Microsoft direction is to integrate and harmonise across platforms. The vision is a fully scalable system, from server through desktop and mobile to imbedded, with common services and important APIs. In addition, requirements for manageability, security, BYOD and a whole host of other imperatives (such as more capable power-misely hardware) you know only too well are driving ineluctably to greater commonality, not further fragmentation.

Add into this stew a whole consideration around hardware architectures and marketshare, essentially this boils down to Intel vs ARM. Today Intel (with MSFT) dominates the server and desktop/notebook market, and ARM dominates mobile (tablet and smartphone). But will that always be the case? What if Intel matches or surpasses ARM on performance, energy efficiency and low price, and does it with the x86 instruction set? How does that change the future?

My own suspicion is Microsoft has sight of Intel plans not many others see.

However, whether Intel does or doesn't is in a way beside the point. ARM is here now, and millions upon millions of devices this year and next year and perhaps the year after will use it. So this has to be addressed or MS will be marginalised into utter obscurity in an important space (if it hasn't already). (On this point, WinRT on WP8 has always been the plan; it just took longer than expected to bed down WinRT specs, so WP7x was an 'interim emergency' release to hold the place until WP8. But I digress.)

That said, Microsoft are in fact doing exactly that: releasing two code bases (Win8 x86, and Win RT for ARM). But they are making sure the "full blown" or "professional" Windows can also run the tablet apps, because if it couldn't we'd have the untenable situation where desktop PC Windows couldn't run "new" Windows applications that the tablets can. The flagship Windows (on the PC) must be able to run any Windows applications (be they Win32/Desktop or WinRT/Metro).

Already established is:

* Win32 provides the essential application compatibility that makes Microsoft successful, but it is (unavoidably) riddled with (integrity and security) vulnerabilities carried over from old real mode and protect mode architectures from the 80s and 90s.

* Intel on x86 have not successfully addressed the burgeoning tablet/smartphone market, letting in ARM on hundreds of millions of devices using iOS and Android. Because of the x86 tie, Win32 is similary unable to address this market.

* Win32 is beyond mature - it is almost entering old age. It cannot take MSFT to where it wants and needs to be in 2020.

* WinRT (the API set, not the confusingly-named Windows on ARM, also called Win RT) is the strategic API set to replace Win32, and the sooner the better. It is not tied to x86 as Win32 is. It is where Microsoft wants to transition future applications.

So, how to transition from Win32 to WinRT? We can't stay where we are, and we can't introduce is new and incompatible platform and credibly call it Windows when it can't run legacy Windows applications.

Here's the nub: The only sane transitional move is to make a Windows that runs both the new WinRT, and yet can also run the current (ie 1980s architecture) Win32.

That is what Win8 does. And frankly, for Microsoft, any other alternative has too many downsides.

The challenge for Microsoft is how to introduce WinRT as its main "architecture for the future" and transition the massive installed base from Win32 to WinRT without endangering the Window franchise and letting in the competition. This transition is pretty easy for a small and forgiving adulatory installed base like Apple's (they did it from MacOS to a rejigged NextStep). But for 1.3 billion users and most businesses infrastructure it's a supremely awesome challenge. Get it wrong, and not just Microsoft will disappear but much of the benefit we see today in the global industry around a common target platform.

So, WinRT has to come because Win32 cannot get us to where we want to be.

When you consider all the options in great detail - and believe me, they have been debated and viewed from every conceivable angle inside Microsoft. The question in the end answers itself: at some point, flagship Windows must include both Win32 and WinRT.

Microsoft is deeply and implacably committed to the PC. And it recognises the opportunities on the newer hardware platforms (tablets and smartphones - it's been there for many years and loooong before the iPhone, iPad and Androind). But the Win32 legacy and Intel's failure on mobile x86 has caused a serious stumble and loss of opporftunity and share.

Windows 8 brings in WinRT - by far the most important long-term change in Windows, but completely invisible to 99.9999% of users, but critically important to developers.
WinRT is modular and flexible enough to transition easily to any platform, including ARM, something not possible with Win32.

So, to summarise:

1) At some point, Windows necessarily must include both Win32 and WinRT, for the reasons touched on above.

2) Architecturally, the new RT-based apps will run on any RT-enabled platform, from server to desktop to tablet to smartphone. Obviously these have very different display and MMI capabilities, so a scalable UI has to be developed (Metro is Version 1.0).

3) For deep technical reasons, WinRT and Win32 cannot call the same UI, so whatever you do you cannot have them side by side on the screen without sabotaging the whole reason you're moving away from Win32 and implementing WinRT (which must happen if MS is to survive beyond 2020).

4) There is nothing in the Metro architecture that makes it necessarly full-screen. The current version and definition is fullscreen, but there are other reasons for that, not the least being that in this transitional phase even more confusing would be to have to completely independent windowing UIs on the same system. The added advantage now of a full-screen "immersive" Metro environment is that it can be leveraged across platforms. But that can and might change in the future.

5) Precisely because Microsoft is so committed to the PC, it makes a lot more to sense to ensure that the "main strategic" Windows platform supports everything that can possibly be called Windows and Windows applications, ie legacy Win32 apps (in Desktop), as well as new/future WinRT apps (in Metro). If this makes sense (and any alternative doesn't), then dual environment UI is the only choice, ie windowing Desktop for legacy Win32, and Metro (which today is fullscreen for good reason, but won't necessarily always be).

On the tablet/smartphone, you can bring WinRT-only, without support for legacy Win32 apps as these in any case are not feasible or even desired on most of these devices. It also means these platforms can give added impetus to WinRT app development, which can then be leveraged back into the strategic mainline desktop Windows systems, setting up a mutually reinforcing virtuous circle in app development until we figure out what Metro 3.0 will be like.

(ctd below)
 
(Ctd from above)

For all sorts of obvious strategic reasons the new WinRT apps must also be called Windows apps, because that is where Microsoft is taking Windows. In the new multi-platform/BYOD world it would be insane for Microsoft to have tablets and phones running "Windows applications" (in Metro) that could not run on the main desktop Windows. So, "desktop" Windows also has to support "tablet" Windows applications, though the smaller Windows systems need not necessarily support the "larger" legacy Windows (ie Win32) apps.

And as WinRT apps proliferate (hopefully - will have to be driven with many promos and incentives - watch this space if you're a developer) and processor technology develops further, you can then do Metro 2.0 and have Win32 supported under WinRT in multiple VMs or some other solution. That's coming.

But you can't get therein one leap, because that would leave most people behind, shift them to other platforms, and destroy Microsoft.

Yes, Windows 8 is not perfect (what is?). Yes, the bifurcated fullscreen and windowing Desktop environments are initially, er, surprising and somewhat jarring. But a bit of understanding can go along way to easing the transition, especially for us industry people.

We owe, if not our users then at least ourselves, an explanation for why things are as they are. Like anyone else, I resent arbitrary and capricious decisions foisted on me by arrogant technocrats. Win8 is emphatically neither arbitrary nor capricious. The real reasons lie less in Microsoft doing something silly and getting UIs wrong, but ultimately in the legacy of old CPU, memory and bus architectures of the 1980s as expressed in Win32. On the one hand we have the non-negotiable requirement that new Windows system run old Win32 applications; and on the other, the emerging requirements of the coming years and decades, where devices can be anysize, pervasive, omnipresent, where data lives anywhere and everywhere, and apps are anywhere and everywhere, local and distributed, and so on. Rich content (media) and easy, hassle-free and reliable access; underneath the system must maintain integrity and be as secure without destroying the user experience. All these need to be brought together in a coherent way. Win32 just cannot do it. Neither for that matter can the operating systems that we today have on our mobile devices (iOS and Android).

In reality, Windows 8 truly is very much more than just the next release of Windows. That's marketing and positioning. Underneath, WinRT (currently in Metro 1.0 in Windows 8, and soon in Windows RT on ARM (tablets) and WP8 on smartphones, and Server 2013, is something entirely new under the covers. It's like a new propulsion system that runs on petrol from the millions of garages now available, but in reality it's a new 'hyperdrive' that is far faster, far more reliable, and far more cost-effective than anything we've had before.

I know (as does Microsoft) that most users couldn't give a tossed fig for all this tech stuff. They jut want something that get them through the day with minimal hassle. Reliably and easily. For those of us who are not just YouTwitFacers, we need to sit up and take notice. At stake is very much more than just a company (Microsoft), because exactly the same issues apply to Apple, and Android and almost everyone else, though on a much smaller scale and in smaller segments of the market. There's a tectonic industry shift happening before our eyes. It affects almost everything we know and do in the virtual world inhabited today by two billion people. And it will shape that world for decades to come.
 
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Finance app looks nice. Severely lacking in customizability.

I'm going to run Win 8 Release Prev as my primary OS for the next couple of months. Starting to think more & more that this could actually work.

Does anybody know anything about Win8 upgrades yet? I saw something about OEM, but technically my Win7 copy is a system builder one so I don't know if I qualify. :confused:

ARM is surfing a massive wave that can very quickly collapse to a ripple.
Won't happen. ARM has a massive edge on the efficiency side because they don't have to carry a bunch of outdated & backwards compatible x86 crap with them. For mobile applications that is an edge I don't see Intel beating with x86 regardless of how far ahead they are in the 45/32/22nm wars.

If anything I think we'll see the opposite: ARM encroaching on Intels desktop/server turf. Especially since Windows now runs on ARM which despite the camouflage is still primarily a desktop OS.

Realistically MS can't lose though: If they back both Intel *and* ARM on all devices then its a guaranteed win.
 
But to accomplish an RT-based windowing environment on the Desktop would require a further abstraction of either RT and Win32 or the Desktop,

<snip>

I hardly ever agree with you on anything, in fact mostly violently disagree, but those posts are very interesting, and perhaps the best ( non-MS-marketing-bs ) explanation I have yet seen for this dog of a Win8. Thanks. I still think Metro, with its "text" emphasis and gaudy colours, is fugly as sin, and Win8 about as user-hostile as it gets.

It'll be interesting to see. Personally I hope it falls flat, to force MS to rethink from the ground up, rather than bolting their crappy cellphone-OS onto Win32 to get into "apps" and "stores" chop-chop. I can't help thinking how well Apple transitioned from 68000 to PPC ( fat binaries and all LOL ) to Intel, from OS8/9 to OS X, with plenty backwards-compatibility at every step. Took time and care though - MS seem to miss out on that.
 
@Arthur - I believe that the original developer preview had a registry setting which allowed the old Start. Comments?
(Now on phone so mercifully brief.)

Yes, Win8 is a bridge from the olde worlde of the 80s (Win32) to RT. This necessarily means there are MLOCs throughout the system for backward compatibility. Can you imagine the howls and lawsuits if someone couldn't run her old WordPerfect 2.0? Or Firefox?

As it evolves and Win32 becomes less imperative, the residue will get cleaned out. There's well over 100,000 man-years in there already, and it can't be turfed in one go.

I don't believe there's a sinister or hedging reason whatsoever.

There's a big diffs between a historical hangover and a strategy, and the Start reg items are the former. The code is out of the RP precisely to give Metro a chance. If the absence of a Start orb starts affecting Win8 adoption, it can be injected in 3 milliseconds. I for one (having the same experience as you, and no vested interest either way) want to give it a fair shot. But each to his own. In the end users will call the shots, and MSFT once before changed a fundamental technical strategy because the market decided otherwise.
 
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I hardly ever agree with you on anything, in fact mostly violently disagree, but those posts are very interesting, and perhaps the best ( non-MS-marketing-bs ) explanation I have yet seen for this dog of a Win8. Thanks. I still think Metro, with its "text" emphasis and gaudy colours, is fugly as sin, and Win8 about as user-hostile as it gets.

I totally disagree about the text-emphasis of Metro being ugly. Personally it's about time design moved away from ridiculous skeuomorphic textures and towards elegance and typography as the driving principles of mobile UI. Apple still uses Helvetica and leather-grain for goodness sake, while Android is riding the garish-neon-coloured-icon horse into the sunset (although Roboto is an admirable piece of work).
 
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