Mirrorless Cameras v DSLR

yvan_c

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Hi Guys,

I'm at a crossroads at the moment. I have to upgrade from my trusty old Canon Powershot S2. I was seriously considering going the DSLR route, but have recently been looking at the new generation of mirrorless cameras. Any of you guys tried out or own any of the latest mirrorless offerings on the market? Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
 
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Depends wholly on what you want out of the camera. The latest Canon Powershot superzooms have pretty damned amazing quality at their equivalent of 1400mm, so if you don't want max björkehs you wouldn't necessarily benefit from a DSLR over another pocketable camera.

So go ahead and list what you want out of your camera and we can better help you.
 
To tell you the honest truth, I fully intended going the SLR way, when I came across this article:

http://www.stuckincustoms.com/2012/01/04/dslrs-are-a-dying-breed-3rd-gen-cameras-are-the-future/

I do not consider myself a complete novice, but acknowledge that I still have much to learn. Shooting with my S2 has taught me a lot over the years though. I feel that I have exhausted its somewhat 'limited' capabilities (compared to SLR) and believe that I will probably (hopefully) benefit from going the SLR route. I was just wondering how valid the arguments/statements are, on which the above article is based. Helping me to make up my mind, I had hoped to get some other perspectives on this.

What I want out of the camera is a bit more difficult to list. The S2 was (and still is) a good all rounder. It is not too heavy and the only extra lense that I carry around in the bag is a teleconverter. I am however prepared to invest in a new setup which requires a heavier camera with more lenses and attachments and accessories. I have not come to place where I specifically want to concentrate on one particular style of photography. I have done some HDR work, low light photography, landscapes, macros. I also like to do post work (photoshop and other image editing software) and experiment with compositing. The benefits of shooting in RAW are also clear to me (which is of course also one of the limitations of the S2, it can shoot only jpegs). I also need a camera which does a good job shooting in low lighting conditions. I would also love a camera which would in the end lend itself to 'upgrading' (firmware upgrades, accessories and lenses).

Of course it probably makes no real difference at this point in time whether I merely upgrade to the latest superzoom or mirrorless, or whether I go the SLR route. It stands to reason that whatever I do, a whole new range of options will be available together with upgraded technology, higher resolution, better images, improved battery life etc. I just don't want to look back in a year or two from now and think to myself that I have reached the same cross roads again and that I should rather have gone the SLR route.

Maybe I've already subconsciously made up my mind, and just need a nudge in the right direction ;)
 
Oh yes, I forgot to mention that it would be nice to have full HD movie capabilities (which seem to be included in the newest SLRs anyway).
 
I'd say don't get another bridge camera if you're worried about outgrowing it.

It's harder to say whether to go for mirrorless of SLR. Both have their advantages and will be able to fulfill all your requirements. I think that the handling and viewfinder of a good SLR is wonderful and not something a mirrorless camera can quite match (yet) but this is all subjective. Mirrorless cameras with APS-C sensors aren't that much smaller and they still have big lenses, negating the size and weight advantage somewhat.

My movie experiences with Nikon have been a little disappointing with the general consensus being to opt for Canon and Magic Lantern for video.

BTW, your old Powershot might be able to shoot RAW with CHDK:
http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/S2IS
 
The issue I have with mirrorless cameras right now is price, gonna set back way more than dslr gear.

Would not mind a Olympus OM-D E-M5 but geez they don't come cheap.
 
The issue I have with mirrorless cameras right now is price, gonna set back way more than dslr gear.

Would not mind a Olympus OM-D E-M5 but geez they don't come cheap.

I love the new OM-D but ja, crazy price on the body and lenses as well.
 
I don't like anything posted by that guy (stuckincustoms can'tbearsedtorememberhisname) and so won't be using him for a (drunken) comparative point.

What I can say is that if you feel you need low-light performance and are willing to suck up the potential expenses associated with getting a DSLR, and have specifically been taking photos 'for years', then a used 5D Mk I might be worth looking into. I can't list a Nikon equivalent purely because I don't know which would be appropriate to talk about, but look into them as well if you're better informed than me.

So to move on - as a rule of thumb no matter what you get - compact, superzoom bridge, entry level or 'pro level' SLR, you're going to get an improvement on low-light performance. You're going to get an improvement on resolution. If you go the Canon route you're more likely to gain RAW format by way of CHDK than not (it's potentially available for your camera, I'm too drunk to look into it accurately).

What you won't, obviously, immediately get from going for a new compact or superzoom is as high a *potential* quality as with a DSLR. Specifically, you won't necessarily gain the functional advances that most DSLRs offer. DSLRs are, in my opinion, largely about getting the larger sensor size for the greater björkeh OR gaining in the functional advances that the controls of the camera themselves lend to your operation of the device. In particular, with most compacts and superzooms your focus is based on contrast detection performed by the computing power of the camera 'in-body' as opposed to a dedicated autofocus mechanism that scans for horizontal and/or vertical line coincidence - completely independently from the exposure metering as well as overall 'scene detection' mechanisms present in your camera.

These obviously affect the camera's ability to 'automatically get things right' for you with minimal intervention on your part. In that sense, having more AF points (read: Canon 7D or Nikon Dwhatever) could be important for a real, tangible difference. Simultaneously, lenses with decent AF mechanisms would also be important.


So what you need to think about and take into consideration at this point is whether you genuinely need something the likes of a DSLR versus a Canon G12 as a pinnacle of (canon line) fixed-lens semi-pocketable cameras, or if you're willing to deal with the bulk and general inconvenience of a DSLR.

As someone that has used a DSLR for over two years now versus a compact camera for around half a year, I can tell you now that I frequently miss the overall convenience of a pocketable camera for general 'photography'. Yes, a DSLR can potentially provide greater-quality photos with a narrower depth of field when I want it, but it's not something I can take with me to nearly as many places as I'd like while still having the breadth of control I desire.

So if what you want is a higher-performing camera, you need to take into consideration just what degree of low-light you want to work with, what degree of wideness in and telephoto-length of focal length it is you want to work with, and just how much björkeh it is you desire. The G12 has a big sensor for a camera of its type - almost Canon 1.6x APS-C format - and with its f/2.8 constant aperture lens can so provide ------ aaaand I dunno what I was doing here - I just spent the past hour and a half typing up a semi-breakup-message to a female in the middle of typing this, and am now substantially drunk.
 
Well, I remembered part of what I was saying - the G12 doesn't have a constant aperture, but at its 140mm equivalent it's still f/4.5, so it has a fair amount of low-light capability while being semi-pocketable. Plus you can still put wide-angle and telephoto convertors onto it, I think.

Anyway, I'm off for the night. Enjoy being confused for the evening, y'all :D
 
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What are you going on about?

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Trey Ratcliff. A lot of what he says is based on opinion, not on fact. Simultaneously, a lot of what he 'does' simply doesn't align with what I deem 'tasteful'. This isn't drunken banter talking but.... I've known about him and have occasionally looked at his media/posts over the past two years, and have never felt myself particularly 'agreeing' with him.

I'm not saying that what he does isn't appealing to anyone - it's just not appealing to me. Because what he does with his photographic output isn't appealing to me, I'm inclined to have a lower 'weighting' of his opinion on equipment than the next person's review - such as Ken Rockwell's. I mean, the latter guy - he might list his facts accurately - but the moment you look at what he considers 'good' or 'artistic', specifically in his 'competitions', you might be left wondering 'what the actual ****'.

Both Ken and Trey are what I consider 'weird'. Like, Salvador Dali weird - just not necessarily in a good sense.
 
Remaining differences between mirrorless and DSLRs

You may find Thom Hogan's blog (bythom.com) illuminating on this subject. He has replaced his Nikon D7000 with a OM-D E-M5 during the last year -- but you should read a few of his posts to see all the reasons.

To summarise: Something like the E-M5 will give you image quality that is comparable to older APS-C, i.e., from about 2 years ago, like the Nikon D7000. This level of image quality is more than adequate for just about every type of photography, except a few niche applications where extreme low light performance is required (i.e., where you'd go full-frame, D3s or D4).

The only category in which the E-M5 (and all current mirrorless cameras, except Nikon 1) cannot compete with DSLRs is autofocus on moving subjects. This includes wildlife, sports, and kids. It it not that the E-M5 cannot be used for these subjects, but that you will miss many shots that a DSLR would have been able to capture, because the DSLR shots would have been focused on the intended target more often.

I expect the next generation of mirrorless bodies to close this autofocus gap substantially (e.g., if you put Nikon 1 AF onto the E-M5 sensor), but until that happens, the AF performance gap remains the most significant difference.

And as noted above, if you buy good lenses, then the E-M5 might actually be more expensive than APS-C DSLRs.
 
The main drawbacks for me with Canon's EOS M mirrorless camera is a lack of optical viewfinder and slow AF.

Sure you can hold it up like a tourist in London and gaze at the back of a screen if your shooting a small lens but try that on the back of a 400mm f/2.8 and it won't be long before your arms are shaking more that the IS can cope with. Fast, responsive AF is also a must and these mirrorless cameras, from what I've read at least, are sorely lacking.
 
My general opinion on the matter (having only played around with a few MILC cameras) is that the main things holding them back are AF speed and accuracy, as well as the lack of an optical viewfinder (there is something comforting about having an instantaneous representation of exactly what will be in the shot). Besides that, the new mirrorless cams coming out now are quite awesome...
 
Don't forget that many MILCs have EVFs available, though it's obviously an extra expense you have to factor into everything.

haha nanonyous, I did keep that in mind, but its the E part of EVF that I cant bring myself to trust. But yeah, maybe I am just being old-school and conservative...
 
haha nanonyous, I did keep that in mind, but its the E part of EVF that I cant bring myself to trust. But yeah, maybe I am just being old-school and conservative...

Yip. It appears that all the current EVFs still have enough latency to make this a pain for action shots. If they can fix that, then I might be tempted..... just think: with EVFs, you can have magnification in your viewfinder (great for manual focus), and you can add focus peaking (to see which part of the image has the most local contrast).

... but on the other hand, my optical viewfinder does not have any high-ISO noise either :)
 
The main drawbacks for me with Canon's EOS M mirrorless camera is a lack of optical viewfinder and slow AF.

Sure you can hold it up like a tourist in London and gaze at the back of a screen if your shooting a small lens but try that on the back of a 400mm f/2.8 and it won't be long before your arms are shaking more that the IS can cope with. Fast, responsive AF is also a must and these mirrorless cameras, from what I've read at least, are sorely lacking.

Unless I'm mistaken that's the problem with all current mirrorless cameras at the moment. One of the Sony NEX models allows an addon electronic viewfinder to be used, but that's at the expense of sacrificing a flash option

If you don't need a viewfinder, mirrorless might be the way to go
 
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