Miyazaki - "Animation needs the pencil."

Not necessarily, perhaps he just feels that he can accomplish more as an artist through another medium. There was a time when painters were considered to be similarly anachronistic because of the advent of photography. Have you seen The Triplets of Belleville? Ah Pook is Here?

To my feeling I have yet to see a piece of CGI animation that stood on its own as art, no matter how photorealistic it may have been. It just always feels too clinical. Perhaps Wall-E would be an exception. But I appreciate the watercolored feel, and the skillfulness of line, of Miyazaki's work, and it would be lost if he transitioned to CGI.
 
Well u see painting doesn't pose to be realistic, whereas photography does(all art is a subjecive transformation of nature.)

If ur an artist from the school of Realism, you'll use the means that offers you the most realistic representation.

Miyzaki is nostalgic, not least of all because he's a Romantic in the 21st century.

As for CGI as "art"(whatever u mean with that) have u seen GITS 2:Innocence?

Beowulf is prob. the most realistic looking so far and it enhances the aims of the movie, which is to have great action scenes,etc.

I'm not entitrely sure how Shigurui was animated, but it's damn sure beautiful and definitly not drawn(except where it was used for effect.)
 
pos(t)er said:
I'm not comparing it to Disney, tho.That would be absurd.

CGI when done badly is disgusting, but when your able to gain the amount of realism seen in something like Beowulf, there' no exscuse not to use it.

The reson Miyzaki doesn't want to use it, is to my mind because he tries to create a Romantic atmosphere and a certain naive simplicity in his work.

Which is fine and good.I question his refusal to move from that way of doing things, even if only for one movie.

Look at some1 like Spielberg who mostly does these blockbuster adventure movies, but has also done stuff like Schindler's List, which is unrecognisable to those.

As for drawing in Japanese culture, indeed it is very popular and important, but as we all know they love technology just as much.
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Naive simplicity? I also wouldn't classify Studio Ghibli animes as "romanticism".

You did not mean primitivism so I wonder why you said that Miyazaki's art and films are naive? If anything I would consider the action fest of Beowulf (a guy in a helmet) to be more naive in all respects. Come on....the pretentiousness of Beowulf is amazing. This is an action flick which could have been made in a live action fashion (like Lord of the Rings) and instead
choose Final Fantasy 8 like CG animation to make itself unique. Studio Ghibli
uses ordinary cel animation to bring emotions out of people. I don't see anything naive about that.

Which Studio Ghibli films have you seen by the way?

BTW Spielberg makes kitschy films (girl in red coat was one such element). His Schindler's List was only awarded because it had a great cinematographer (which Spielberg is incapable of himself) and theme of the Holocaust moved the Academy to give him an Oscar.
The film was predictable and over dramatised. Roman Polanski's film
The Pianist was a much more poignant story, with Roman Polanski
himself actually having had experienced Nazi oppression unlike Spielberg.

Back to Ghibli, I grant that not everyone enjoys Miyazaki but if anything you should see the whole catalog, and see his mentor's films too. Isao Takahata's
Grave of the Fireflies is probably the most moving animated film yet produced.
 
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pos(t)er said:
Well that's a personal opinion.

As i've indidcated both have different roles:

Romaticism(Miyazaki)

Realism(CGI like Beowulf)

by refusing to go CGI, Miyzaki is basically saying"I'm a Romantic, so there."
Click to expand...

I disagree about the romanticism, but even if you assumed that Miyazaki was into romance, I would ask how you can call CGI a genre, when in fact it is a medium?
 
Yeah I'm not sure you're clear about the meanings of your own terminology poster. And how you can compare gutter trash CGI-swamped films like Beowulf favourably against Miyazaki's work is totally beyond me.

So let's say that by romantic I think you mean nostalgic or sentimental perhaps.

And why do you think that the goal of any piece of animation should be photorealism? Non-animated films do a 100% better job of producing photorealism, but you still pay to see animated films. Animation is stylisation. No visual artist would agree with your assertions I'm afraid.

Now I'm sure that he could use a tool/medium like CGI effectively, but I think he feels that there is still much scope for innovation and artistry in traditional cel animation.
 
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All i was trying to illustrate is that a creative artist should never limit himself.

Broadly speaking all of Miyzaki's films can be called Romantic, as they contain elements thereof(Nature, nostalgia, supernatural elements, etc.)

If he wanted to move out of this mould, it would be wise to consider utilising CGI.
 
Perhaps fabulist would be a better term then?

Romantic.

Fabulist.

I understand your point about not wanting to limit himself, and I believe that it is possible to create works of art using CG as the tool. But I still think there are aesthetic advantages to working with pen animation.

For instance look at this single cel of animation:

18724549_fc8f3d4ede.jpg


Is that an effect you can easily accomplish through CGI? In many respects it's superior to much of the CGI that gets produced today.
 
If i'm not mistaken Howl's Moving Castle did use some CGI?

As for superior, that's solely dependent on the person using it.

What CGI would be able to do is make that look more realistic.

But that goes against the nature of the work, since it purposefully tries to create a fairy tale world.

Thus different tools for different purposes.
 
Ah PeterCH

still punting Miyazaki after all these years? Didn't you learn your lesson with your forum, dare I say it's name here
 
pos(t)er said:
If i'm not mistaken Howl's Moving Castle did use some CGI?

As for superior, that's solely dependent on the person using it.

What CGI would be able to do is make that look more realistic.

But that goes against the nature of the work, since it purposefully tries to create a fairy tale world.

Thus different tools for different purposes.
Click to expand...

Some CGI as opposed to being totally CGI. You will find that most of HMC
is handdrawn - maybe 2-3% is CGI (moving backgrounds).

Hand vs CGI?

Let's just say that Japan has a tradition of drawing, much of the works
of Miyazaki, Takahata and Ghibli are based off that. In fact most anime, in
principle is based on their cultural history of drawing which not only
includes drawing but also writing which is extremely stylised.

That is one aspect different to the West (Hollywood) where
animated film is often not seen for the sake of the animation
per se but for the sake of showing off one's hardware (and photo realism).

Miyazaki goes beyond creating a fairy tale world. The fairy tale world
is the world where real life and philosophical encounters between
characters occur. The obvious animation also acts as a tool,
for example in being able to exaggerate certain expressive
emotions which could not be accomplished with live action.

On the other hand Western animation is primarily
based at re-creating live action with as much sparkle,
glitz and glamour as possible. Miyazaki who uses
traditional colours is less extravagant and does not
want to compete on that foot. Hence his works
are superior in that he tends to use the animation
as the medium to convey a story and its associated
emotions while Western animation just recreates
a real world situation for the sake of doing it on
a high end workstation - for the bling factor.
 
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Turiko said:
Ah PeterCH

still punting Miyazaki after all these years? Didn't you learn your lesson with your forum, dare I say it's name here
Click to expand...

Your post has been reported for possible TOS violations. Secondly I've PM'ed
you and cc'ed that to relevant mods. I hope I don't hear from you again.

Thank you.
 
PeterCH said:
Some CGI as opposed to being totally CGI. You will find that most of HMC
is handdrawn - maybe 2-3% is CGI (moving backgrounds).

Hand vs CGI?

Let's just say that Japan has a tradition of drawing, much of the works
of Miyazaki, Takahata and Ghibli are based off that. In fact most anime, in
principle is based on their cultural history of drawing which not only
includes drawing but also writing which is extremely stylised.

That is one aspect different to the West (Hollywood) where
animated film is often not seen for the sake of the animation
per se but for the sake of showing off one's hardware (and photo realism).

Miyazaki goes beyond creating a fairy tale world. The fairy tale world
is the world where real life and philosophical encounters between
characters occur. The obvious animation also acts as a tool,
for example in being able to exaggerate certain expressive
emotions which could not be accomplished with live action.

On the other hand Western animation is primarily
based at re-creating live action with as much sparkle,
glitz and glamour as possible. Miyazaki who uses
traditional colours is less extravagant and does not
want to compete on that foot. Hence his works
are superior in that he tends to use the animation
as the medium to convey a story and its associated
emotions while Western animation just recreates
a real world situation for the sake of doing it on
a high end workstation - for the bling factor.
Click to expand...

Well as i said it comes down to taste.

I don't find the recent Miyazaki movies terribly exciting, thus i'm not gonna watch it just for his drawing skills.

But there are some notable japanese CGI movies as well:

GITS2:Innocence

Appleseed

etc.

The CGI serves the type of movie that GITS is and enhances the atmosphere.Drawing would have nothing to offer it.

Same with Paprika:it makes it possible to create surrealistic pieces.Drawing could also do that, but it would have a fairy tale flavour to it.
 
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I agree about the pencil work. I think the phrase, if it isn’t broken don’t fix it, applies here. Miyazaki creates wonderful things. Why make changes to something that is already amazing.
 
PeterCH said:
Your post has been reported for possible TOS violations. Secondly I've PM'ed
you and cc'ed that to relevant mods. I hope I don't hear from you again.

Thank you.
Click to expand...

He's been banned i see. That's a good thing.
 
I learnt yesterday that Miyazaki was also involved with Heidi which we got here back in the 70's I think.
 
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