More blacks consider emigration

[gregmcc]

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_2363453,00.html

 

[EtienneK]

But in 2007, sentiments had changed with 41% of whites, 38% of blacks, 42% of coloureds and 30% of Indians thinking of leaving the country.

Holy smokes!

 

[semiautomatix]

If we do those figures... its about 3 million white people and 20 million black people. Ouch for you ANC.

 

[Milano]

38% of blacks? What a load of crap...did they conduct the survey exclusively amongst upper management?

 

[semiautomatix]

38% of blacks? What a load of crap...did they conduct the survey exclusively amongst upper management?

Upper management is not going anywhere! They're unemployable outside of their BEE circle!

 

[milomak]

Is the question:

a) would you think of living elsewhere outside of south africa?
b) do you want to live south africa?

most black south africans, and i include those who are highly mobile, would need things to be a whole lot worse before the option of emigrating became a serious option.

 

[kiepie]

Is the question:

a) would you think of living elsewhere outside of south africa?
b) do you want to live south africa?

most black south africans, and i include those who are highly mobile, would need things to be a whole lot worse before the option of emigrating became a serious option.

I agree. 38% sound a bit far fetch. Wonder how was this 2500 people selected?

 

[dlk001]

This is one of the most laughable articles I've seen this year.

 

[Turiko]

I agree... this article smacks of some serious attempt to "allay the fears of some investors somewhere"

 

[milomak]

I agree... this article smacks of some serious attempt to "allay the fears of some investors somewhere"

what kind of investor would gain comfort from news the whole of south africa wants to leave?

 

[sox63]

People will start to doubt stats if they carry on publishing such "studies". No black person I know, is thinking of leaving SA.

 

[mancombseepgood]

http://www.dispatch.co.za/article.aspx?id=229296

2008/07/25

MORE fed-up black South Africans want to emigrate to escape the crime and economic pressure on jobs in this country. The number seriously considering emigration has shot up by 20 percent since 2000, a researcher revealed yesterday.

“We are now seeing a tipping point for an exodus, but this time across the board in terms of race,” said Future Fact researcher Debbie Milne at a conference in Johannesburg.

“It is motivated more by the sense of cynicism than real violent political turmoil.”

More than one in three South Africans now say they are seriously considering leaving, as opposed to 18 percent in 2000, according to the survey conducted in the second half of last year among 2500 adults.

The surprise was that the increase was now reflected across all races.

In 2000, 22 percent of whites, 18percent of blacks, 12 percent of coloureds and 26 percent of Indians said they were considering emigration.

But in 2007, sentiments had changed with 41 percent of whites, 38 percent of blacks, 42percent of coloureds and 30percent of Indians thinking of leaving the country.

“It does show the sense of dissatisfaction,” said Milne.

“South Africa as a society has a number of unhappy people who feel helpless and hopeless about their future. Many social ills contribute to an exodus mentality among our citizens.”

High crime rates and job security were deciding factors for one coloured Eastern Cape couple in the process of emigrating to Australia.

The couple, who now live in Port Elizabeth, said they had had enough of horror crimes and feared their two toddler girls would be exposed to the country’s brutalities.

Both professionals, they said that although their roots were in South Africa, it was not worth dying over patriotism. One, a 32-year-old teacher, said: “Our nanny was robbed and mugged just a few houses away. They took her cellphone and punched her a few times. The thugs were arrested, but released the following day and nothing has come of the case.”

Being hijacked was one of her worst fears. “Every time I drive around with my daughters, I double check to ensure that everything is locked. I think of all these hijackings and rapes ... I’m not being paranoid, but this is reality,” she said.

Echoing their views was Anish Abraham, a journalist from Johannesburg, who is also preparing to leave the country after becoming a victim of crime twice.

“I have been robbed and mugged twice and it’s not something anyone wants to experience,” he said.

His face-to-face encounters with hardened criminals is something that will haunt him forever but Abraham said better job opportunities tipped the scale for him.

Cosatu’s Eastern Cape provincial secretary Xola Pakati said the research came as no surprise to him as for years there had been an exodus of citizens looking for greener pastures.

Highly skilled people were leaving in droves as they were not getting recognition or proper compensation for their expertise.

“We have thousands of nurses working in Arab states and in London and they are getting much, much more there. All this is an indication of our failures,” said Pakati. Reasons for emigrating varied, but Pakati concurred that escalating crime was forcing thousands of citizens of all race groups to leave.

“Just look at the newspaper and TV. There is crime everywhere.

“The criminal justice system is just not favourable.”

The survey also showed that more than two thirds of South Africans believed in 2006 that most problems in the country were caused by illegal immigrants.

Depression levels were high among all South Africans, but highest among people in the lowest income group.

Sixty-five percent of people in that group said they often felt depressed; about 45 percent of middle class South Africans and 33 percent of upper class people were similarly affected.

High crime rates were a main reason for pessimism.

Researchers found that 63percent of people believed they had a right to take the law into their hands if the police failed to deal with a crime.

Another 60 percent said they would rather call a neighbour or a private security company instead of the police during a house robbery.

However, South Africans were still “clearly seeking out commonality”.

Milne said 53 percent of respondents considered themselves first as South Africans, before identifying themselves by race or language.

Also, 78 percent of white South Africans believed one should learn a black language. — Sapa, with additional reporting by Chandré Prince

 

[jambai]

I know a few black professionals that want to leave .One engineer and one accountant who are both black.Their kids go to private schools so maybe the just jumping on the bandwagon with everyone.A ca is an Ca or an cival engineer is an cival engineer.Only sa sees race.If you have the correct qualifications and experience the rest of the worls needs you.Therefore can imagine the skilled blacks leaving too.I am sure 20 years ago not many skilled blacks thought of leaving zim and look where they are now.In eng,Sa anywhere but zim.Things can change fast but then again the ANC is going to rule until the world ends(ja whatever)

 

[dlk001]

People will start to doubt stats if they carry on publishing such "studies". No black person I know, is thinking of leaving SA.

I do not know of a single black professional that is considering immigration at this stage. I know about 10 white professionals who have emigrated to Canada and Australia in last 2 years. I know 2 colored people who have emigrated to Canada.

 

[Turtle]

People will start to doubt stats if they carry on publishing such "studies". No black person I know, is thinking of leaving SA.

Really? I have numerous black friends/colleagues who have quietly/uncomfortably admitted to wanting to get out at times (sometimes this will be after the Nth time they've been robbed or attacked etc., though they seem to never talk about such things when around "their own").

Very important, I wonder how they phrased the questions. I mean this could be anything from "ever thought of maybe leaving" to "possibly want to leave" to "actually want to leave" to "busy considering leaving" to "in the process of attempting to leave" etc.

Blacks are not as happy here as you might think. Believe it or not they also don't like being murdered and attacked all the time and having load shedding and xenophobic violence and all the other crap here. But blacks are FAR less likely to be vocal about their feelings on this, for various reasons, including cultural ... blacks can't be too "white" in saying things like that.

It's also MUCH HARDER for them to translate a *desire* to leave, into serious action, so they are less likely to even bother stating how unhappy they might be in the first place because it doesn't help to do so.

This is for various reasons ... (1) financial (2) they're still less likely to be as skilled as the whites that consider leaving (3) it is far harder for them to have to fit into a totally foreign culture (whereas we whites head to other Western / white cultural areas where we will always fit in better) (4) there is less of a culture of emigration which means that most of your friends and family and everyone you knew remain in SA (unlike with whites, I have more friends overseas now than in SA and several family members too) (5) it somehow really is different leaving a place your ancestors have been for over 1000 years vs going back to, say, somewhere your ancestors left 200 years ago.

I would not be at all surprised if 40% of them hasn't at some point felt like they wanted to leave this place.

Ever consider why many of those who were in exile under apartheid still haven't returned.

... so maybe the just jumping on the bandwagon

Oh it's just a "bandwagon" is it? I guess you think blacks are just not smart enough to be able to see for themselves that they are getting attacked and aren't safe and that there are infrastructure problems and that there is political instability/uncertainty. Nope, it's just a "bandwagon", NO rational basis to it at all. You think only whites are affected by these problems? Just the few incidents I *know of* amongst a few black friends/colleagues, some had armed home invasion, multiple home robberies, multiple muggings, car hijackings, one has been shot and nearly died, another girl I know's boyfriend was shot dead, she has been shot, another friend of hers has been shot, she has been mugged multiple times ... seriously man, "bandwagon" my ass. And don't think all blacks think Zuma's a great idea either.

 

[sox63]

Really? I have numerous black friends/colleagues who have quietly/uncomfortably admitted to wanting to get out at times (sometimes this will be after the Nth time they've been robbed or attacked etc., though they seem to never talk about such things when around "their own").

Very important, I wonder how they phrased the questions. I mean this could be anything from "ever thought of maybe leaving" to "possibly want to leave" to "actually want to leave" to "busy considering leaving" to "in the process of attempting to leave" etc.

Blacks are not as happy here as you might think. Believe it or not they also don't like being murdered and attacked all the time and having load shedding and xenophobic violence and all the other crap here. But blacks are FAR less likely to be vocal about their feelings on this, for various reasons, including cultural ... blacks can't be too "white" in saying things like that.

It's also MUCH HARDER for them to translate a *desire* to leave, into serious action, so they are less likely to even bother stating how unhappy they might be in the first place because it doesn't help to do so.

This is for various reasons ... (1) financial (2) they're still less likely to be as skilled as the whites that consider leaving (3) it is far harder for them to have to fit into a totally foreign culture (whereas we whites head to other Western / white cultural areas where we will always fit in better) (4) there is less of a culture of emigration which means that most of your friends and family and everyone you knew remain in SA (unlike with whites, I have more friends overseas now than in SA and several family members too) (5) it somehow really is different leaving a place your ancestors have been for over 1000 years vs going back to, say, somewhere your ancestors left 200 years ago.

I would not be at all surprised if 40% of them hasn't at some point felt like they wanted to leave this place.

Ever consider why many of those who were in exile under apartheid still haven't returned.

Dude, fine your friends may be considering it, I was just saying that I do not anyone who is thinking of it. It seems dlk001 also says the same thing.

So as I said, the 38% figure is questionable. 38% of the Black population from a sample of whoever they interviewed? Nonsense.

 

[Turtle]

Dude, fine your friends may be considering it, I was just saying that I do not anyone who is thinking of it. It seems dlk001 also says the same thing.

So as I said, the 38% figure is questionable. 38% of the Black population from a sample of whoever they interviewed? Nonsense.

Yeah, because "a few people I know and some other dude on a forum" represent a MUCH better overview than a probably more or less properly conducted study surveying representative samples of some broader population. Riiight. Did it ever occur to you your friends might just not always be admitting their thoughts to you?

And the fact remains, when it's not a realistic option because of the things I listed, you're less likely to bother admitting it or pursuing the thought further. It doesn't mean people love it here.

 

[ldmelsa]

Some more here.
Third of SA dream of joining exodus

 

[dlk001]

Dude, fine your friends may be considering it, I was just saying that I do not anyone who is thinking of it. It seems dlk001 also says the same thing.

So as I said, the 38% figure is questionable. 38% of the Black population from a sample of whoever they interviewed? Nonsense.

Its all nonsense. I'm sure there are Black people considering leaving SA. 38% is an exodus!

If 38% Black people were considering leaving SA compared to 41% whites, then one would hear, at least, as many Blacks as Whites talking immigration. Furthermore, there would be a fair percentage of Black Professionals, as the White Professionals in the process of leaving SA or already left.

In mining, the easiest way out of SA, I have not seen or heard one single Black SAIMM registered professional who is considering immigrating or emigrated. Over the last 2 years, I know 10 White and 2 Colored colleagues that have left SA.

Within mining, we have lost 35% of our Rock Engineers to Oz, Canada and NZ. Not a single Black professional amongst them.

 

[Toffee]

THe 38% seems a little far fetched to me. I would need to see the question sthey asked. Perhaps 38% said they would like to go overseas, not emigrate!

I do know a few black well educated professionals who are looking to emigrate. One of them was stabbed in an unprovoked attack in C/Town. The reality is that a large number of blacks are being educated in former model C schools/private schools and end up with similar values than the white folk. Isee that as a positive. They would/should also have aspirations to travel, have a better lifestyle etc.