More blacks consider emigration

[milomak]

some spectactular condescending from Turtle in this thread. i especially enjoyed his "learned" views on the black psyche.

 

[Turtle]

I have no intention of learning a 'black' language.

I'd much rather the SABC presenters learn English.

Just to be clear, I'm not calling everyone who doesn't learn a 'black' language a hypocrite ... just those who say you "should" but don't ... i.e. those who feign interest in doing so when they have no interest. You weren't the target, as you seem open and honest about your intentions.

I wish the SABC and eTV presenters would at least learn how to pronounce common SAn names properly, I mean holy crap, I still want to retch every time I hear one of them, even after all these years, still slowly trying to fumble through "Charles Nnnng-gaa-kool-er" (hello there's a "q" in there) or "T-shhh-wah-ne" (Tshwane - hello that's not the same as English "sh") or "Poo-low-kwah-ni" (Polokwane) etc. Honestly man it's your JOB to be able to pronounce these things, this isn't amateur hour. Bet they're all secretly relieved "Zuma" is easy to pronounce.

 

[Turtle]

some spectactular condescending from Turtle in this thread. i especially enjoyed his "learned" views on the black psyche.

*Yawn* more ad hominem instead of refuting my points. In fact, in spite of much ferocious opposition to my points, nobody's managed to logically refute a single one ... thanks, I'm vindicated. And I guess I've struck a nerve - or rather, the article did.

I really don't see what's so amazingly and utterly unthinkable about black migration.

History tells us migration is normal not just for blacks but every human civilization. Blacks migrate all the time to get into South Africa from all over the continent (in case you didn't notice what all that "xenophobia" stuff was about), blacks migrated during the Mfecane, blacks migrated and spread south across the continent during the great Bantu migrations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantu_peoples), blacks migrated to Gauteng in large numbers from all over the country to look for jobs, blacks migrated away from Apartheid (it was "exile" then but many still haven't come back, so now it's migration, what does that say), and today many especially skilled blacks are leaving to either escape crime and political uncertainty or seek better lives elsewhere ... maybe it just pisses you off that a whitey knows a bit more about your own history than you do, lol.

 

[milomak]

But blacks are FAR less likely to be vocal about their feelings on this, for various reasons, including cultural ... blacks can't be too "white" in saying things like that.

Do you believe for instance the Sowetan does not cry about crime?

It's also MUCH HARDER for them to translate a *desire* to leave, into serious action, so they are less likely to even bother stating how unhappy they might be in the first place because it doesn't help to do so.

This is for various reasons ... (1) financial (2) they're still less likely to be as skilled as the whites that consider leaving (3) it is far harder for them to have to fit into a totally foreign culture (whereas we whites head to other Western / white cultural areas where we will always fit in better) (4) there is less of a culture of emigration which means that most of your friends and family and everyone you knew remain in SA (unlike with whites, I have more friends overseas now than in SA and several family members too) (5) it somehow really is different leaving a place your ancestors have been for over 1000 years vs going back to, say, somewhere your ancestors left 200 years ago.

your first paragraph is more relevant. the second is an interesting one. even amongst highly mobile and educated blacks, my experience is that most see opportunity in South Africa and do not consider moving even though they are as experienced and educated as their white counterpatries. In fact in your 2nd paragraph, your point 3 is probably the closest you get to the truth.

I would not be at all surprised if 40% of them hasn't at some point felt like they wanted to leave this place.

Ever consider why many of those who were in exile under apartheid still haven't returned.

You say many from exile haven't returned. Many points to more than 50% not returning. Please provide proof of this.

Oh it's just a "bandwagon" is it? I guess you think blacks are just not smart enough to be able to see for themselves that they are getting attacked and aren't safe and that there are infrastructure problems and that there is political instability/uncertainty. Nope, it's just a "bandwagon", NO rational basis to it at all. You think only whites are affected by these problems? Just the few incidents I *know of* amongst a few black friends/colleagues, some had armed home invasion, multiple home robberies, multiple muggings, car hijackings, one has been shot and nearly died, another girl I know's boyfriend was shot dead, she has been shot, another friend of hers has been shot, she has been mugged multiple times ... seriously man, "bandwagon" my ass. And don't think all blacks think Zuma's a great idea either.

here you are just making a whole lot of assumptions about things i might or might not believe. and i have to say that you are 100% off the mark.

 

[alloytoo]

Well bully for you Why is that though?

One sort of expects it in an English language program.

 

[dlk001]

your first paragraph is more relevant. the second is an interesting one. even amongst highly mobile and educated blacks, my experience is that most see opportunity in South Africa and do not consider moving even though they are as experienced and educated as their white counterpatries.

This was my point with the mining professionals example. Its easy for most mining professionals to emigrate out of SA. However, I have not seen one black professional who has done so. During discussions, I have not heard one Black professional who is considering doing so.

This does not mean Blacks do not consider emigration. It just means 38% is hard to believe.

 

[Toffee]

It's true. But it is a MYTH that it "those values" that make one want to leave. I've made friends with people who are literally poor and in the townships, and though they would only admit it seldom and uncomfortably, it is clear that they KNOW, they really KNOW that things are very bad for them, and would love to leave, but it's so hurtful to even think about because they know that their situation is so hopeless that they are not going anywhere and just have to make the best of it. Sure they try enjoy life and put on a happy face, but they are damn fed up with being subject to violence and attacks. But it is VERY difficult for a black person to admit that openly, especially given the historical context (they now have the black government they wanted and life still sucks - u know how hard that is to admit) - so to dlk etc. don't think you know what a person feels just because they haven't told you their thoughts on it - the reasons they DON'T leave are myriad, and I listed them, but it doesn't mean they have no inner desire to or never consider it.

I mean if it's "model C values" (aka white values) that are "for emigration", why does half of Africa want to get out of their own sh-tholes and into SA and elsewhere ... yeah blacks never think of leaving, ya right, what a racist viewpoint. Blacks exhibit rational behaviour too, and wanting to move away from a dangerous hell-life of poverty and suffering (to places with more jobs and opportunities and money) is as rational as it gets. You don't need to be "model C educated" to realise that, you people must think blacks are so dumb they need a white education just to realise they are in danger or that life could be better somewhere else! (Why do you think so many blacks of all ethnicities came to Gauteng in the first place? What would you call that? It's the same thing. Human migration is natural - to all humans.)

I don't think you people even know anyone from townships very well at all. As in, really know.

Get down from your soap box and I will give you your noddy badge. Seriously though, I was just giving an example of some blacks I knew that were looking at leaving to back up the headline. I never said that they were the only blacks that were thinking of leaving nor did I think that blacks were stupid. You seem to have gone off on a bit of a tangent. Most human beings aspire for a better life for them and there family and some will take that step to move countires to do just that.

 

[RoosTa]

STOP WITH THE F@##$@ing black / white carp. Get over it. We are all human beings ...

PS I also propose we STOP posting media which indicates race.

 

[Turtle]

PS I also propose we STOP posting media which indicates race.

Hmm .. nah.

http://www.fin24.com/articles/default/display_article.aspx?Nav=ns&ArticleID=1518-25_2365650

Analysis by race group shows that while blacks are generally the most positive, in the quarter to June their figure also shows its largest drop since 2004, from 73% to 63%.

So here we have another study showing 37% of blacks (over 1 in 3, and more in number than there are whites in total here) are not positive about SA, and the percentage is increasing fairly rapidly. Truth hurts eh. But don't attack me for it, attack TNS Research.

"Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth." - Buddha

 

[milomak]

so unhappiness with the country = i want to emigrate?