MS SQL & C# Training

[bmchunu]

Hi

I need to do SQL and C# training ... the company I work for will pay any care to recommend a good training centre in JHB.

I have had a look at some of these here http://www.microsoft.com/southafrica/learning/cpls/partners.mspx and I am still undecided.

 

[Saajid]

IMO, the best training you can get is to be thrown in the deep end on an existing project. Supplement this with the MSDN Offline and Online Help libraries, Google and StackOverflow.com to assist whenever you get stuck. Surround yourself with smart, intelligent, experienced developers in your company - don't be afraid to ask for help, and to ask stupid questions, no matter how stupid you might think it is. Complete a few online tutorials for C# and MS SSQL. Start with basics and move to more advanced ones. Experience is the best teacher. There is a marked difference in calibre between developers who learn when thrown in the deep-end, and those that learn from set training courses.

A training course will only teach you the basics, which you can learn for free with online tutorials, and which you really should already know if you are a programmer, or have a Computer Science or other IT-related degree. You should really only have to start learning the syntax, keywords and conventions of a language. The rest should come naturally.

Sorry that my post doesn't help you directly...

 

[Other Pineapple Smurf]

There is a marked difference in calibre between developers who learn when thrown in the deep-end, and those that learn from set training courses.

Yes, the developers who learn when thrown in the deep-end struggle to get started, the educated ones get started from the beginning!!!! I work in a office with booksmart & streetsmart developers and can say the booksmart guys are the most productive!

I use to be a streetsmart developer, self taught since '85. Then I decided to study 3 years back (and still busy), and my development skills have really improved. Studies give you the foundations you need.

 

[hsmnel]

Y

I use to be a streetsmart developer, self taught since '85. Then I decided to study 3 years back (and still busy), and my development skills have really improved. Studies give you the foundations you need.

Totally agree - get a proper foundation by attending a course and then go the deep end/selfstudy way.

 

[Saajid]

Yes, the developers who learn when thrown in the deep-end struggle to get started, the educated ones get started from the beginning!!!! I work in a office with booksmart & streetsmart developers and can say the booksmart guys are the most productive!

I use to be a streetsmart developer, self taught since '85. Then I decided to study 3 years back (and still busy), and my development skills have really improved. Studies give you the foundations you need.

Totally agree - get a proper foundation by attending a course and then go the deep end/selfstudy way.

I agree with you guys fully. My above opinion is based on the assumption that the developer MUST have a solid degree / qualification behind his name already. Like a BSc Comp. Sci. or Engineering or one of the related IT degrees where they teach you the theory, concepts and the "science" behind programming. If you have this already, then I strongly believe that the developer will alot more, alot faster, and become a better quality developer if thrown in the deep end, then if doing a course on C# or SQL. That's the experience I've had personally, saw this among my friends, colleagues and junior developers under me.

The calibre of a completely self-taught developer can never be compared to that of a "booksmart" developer (there are a few rare exceptions of course). I've noticed that most developers who don't have a solid degree behind their name, and only do these 6-12 month training courses (or even less!) are often clueless, and don't know how to solve complex problems, and even the less complex problems. Their design skills are weak, and they can't seem to think further or bigger than the blinking cursor on the page they are coding.

 

[guest2013-1]

Yes, the developers who learn when thrown in the deep-end struggle to get started, the educated ones get started from the beginning!!!! I work in a office with booksmart & streetsmart developers and can say the booksmart guys are the most productive!

I use to be a streetsmart developer, self taught since '85. Then I decided to study 3 years back (and still busy), and my development skills have really improved. Studies give you the foundations you need.

Weird, I have an opposite view to that, where the streetsmart developer is about 10x faster than the booksmart one, because they won't sit with a problem or overcomplicate things, they'll try 99 different ways to solve a problem within an hour, whereas the booksmart ones tend to spend 4 days contemplating IF the piece of code would work or not where they could have just hit F5 and see if it would?

But yea, guess it depends. Streetsmart for me is best and more productive, you have no idea what I can do in just 8 hours of a day compared to one of these booksmart lads...

 

[bmchunu]

Relevant question just asked on Stackoverflow, interesting answers....

Microsoft Training in .NET

I see a lot of people are voting self-study ... but there's no doubt in my mind I will go the class route, as a foundation at least, then self study depending on what I did not pick up ... hence asking for opinions on good training centres.

And you guys being the developers you are never read the spec and haven't suggested one training centre.

 

[Divestar]

And you guys being the developers you are never read the spec and haven't suggested one training centre.

+1

I'm also following this for the answer...

 

[Saajid]

And you guys being the developers you are never read the spec and haven't suggested one training centre.

LOL.. sorry. I don't know of any training centers. Haven't ever used one... Try a Google Search perhaps?

 

[FarligOpptreden]

@OP: Personally, I don't think there's a substitute for a good CS degree. Studying Computer Science will give you a very good foundation in development and databases as a whole, including proper design patterns, documentation and testing procedures. A quick "Hello World" crash course rarely puts you in the big league of software development, regardless of your chosen platform.

Just my 2c for the day...

 

[Other Pineapple Smurf]

Weird, I have an opposite view to that, where the streetsmart developer is about 10x faster than the booksmart one, because they won't sit with a problem or overcomplicate things, they'll try 99 different ways to solve a problem within an hour, whereas the booksmart ones tend to spend 4 days contemplating IF the piece of code would work or not where they could have just hit F5 and see if it would?

But yea, guess it depends. Streetsmart for me is best and more productive, you have no idea what I can do in just 8 hours of a day compared to one of these booksmart lads...

I know you have a bias towards educated developers from previous threads and there is some truth in what you say. One thing I have picked up in IT is that not all developers with BSc's actually did a major in any IT subject. This I do believe is where the misconception that "BSc == educated IT dude" comes into play.

I know a guy who has BSc in applied maths and is a developer - he is the prime example of what you are referring to. (In 3 yrs I never saw him complete an application)

A properly educated developer will not try 99 ways as he already understands the correct way to solve the problem, and he does it quickly.

 

[semaphore]

I have a BSc, and i like simple approaches to problem solving. Thou i did do freelance programming work as a hobby before i did my studies.

@Acid also remember thou the person who studied computer science is usually the person in the end that can solve complex problems, usually that would have to do with algorithms or math intensive routines, your average street smart programmer is just not equipped with the theoretical knowledge of applied mathematics when it comes to programming, i'm not saying all of them are not but in general its the case.

In end a piece of paper is better than none at all. Overseas they do not look at your hobby's. Also remember that if you want to get into more complex fields in development. i.e. imaging, compression, cryptography, games development etc. Having a degree in CS is always advantageous. A general developer would not know how to implement newtons law of gravity in an artificial space (i.e. rendered 3d scene)