Muscle recovery question - running.

[lived666]

I hate running - just not able to do it, but I have set myself a challenge to run 5km within 8 weeks.

Anyhow this Saturday at the parkrun I managed to run the first 1.5km and then walk/run the rest - by run I mean slow jog.

Anyhow thigh muscles are in agony - I went to do a gentle swim yesterday but what is the best remedy - should I go and do some treadmill walking while the pain is there or do I need to wait a few days for it to pass and then start my treadmill "training" again.

I alternate between running/walking 5km on the treadmill a few times a week to try and build up running stamina for the parkruns.

 

[iCuSD]

Also remember to stretch properly before, I understand your pain I am 6 foot 3 I really hate running but I force my self. Have you also thought about throwing in some cycling at the gym, I find it helps me build up my fitness as well.

 

[Emjay]

The only way to love running is to run until you love it, sadly. That's a good goal, and 5km in 8 weeks is more than achievable.

Just a few pointers:

• Foam roll and stretch - check out some videos online. Do not underestimate the importance of this. This also aides in recovery.
• You may get injured - don't despair. Lots of help online. You can also post here and we will help you.
• Do some strength work for running - all those little stabilizer muscles need to catch up. Also, if your glutes are not strong enough (especially the hip flexors), you are in for a hard time. You can find some runner's strength guides online.
• Get good running shoes for trail running - good shoes are a must.

You can also look for a 5km training plan online. I would recommend a structured plan, as it reduces risk of injury.

For recovery, I usually do some of the following:

• Epsom salt bath.
• Ice the sore areas.
• Roll and stretch.
• Slow walking / swimming / rest. No longer than 30 minutes and heart rate should stay very low.
• Protein shake within 30 minutes after a hard session. If you cannot afford this, just eat something. Protein is best. Carbs are ok, but better than nothing.

Edit: Treadmill running is not bad. It's actually a good way to stay injury free, but it does not stress all the stablizer muscles. Remember to add a 1% to 2% incline to simulate road running a bit more. Try get out on the road a little more and just take care when doing the park runs. Also, when you start road running, try run in the middle of the road if you have a quiet stretch of road, or on a flat pavement. The slight bend in the edge of the road can cause some niggles (especially in your ITB).

 

[lived666]

It sounds like you one of those people I see at gym that get on a treadmill and 50 minutes later they still pounding it without breaking a sweat - and I feel like death after 2 minutes.

Anyhow so its ok to go to gym with sore muscles but just do a light walk - which is what I usually do anyhow

 

[znh]

Muscle soreness usually happens when muscles do not have enough oxygen while performing. So I would recommend that you lower the intensity of your running till you get fitter and your body gets better at extracting and delivering the oxygen you need.
Frequest slow jogs would be the best way to get your body adapted to a 5Km.
The speed should be slow enough that you can keep chatting to a person in full sentences.
Huffing and puffing is a sign that you have an oxygen deficit.

While your legs are sore it is fine to keep on (slow) running as this will promote blood flow and help to get rid of the lactic build-up. I would also recommend that you increase your water intake to +- 1.5l per day, the blood will transport the waste products to your kidneys and the water will help to flush them out.

 

[Emjay]

It sounds like you one of those people I see at gym that get on a treadmill and 50 minutes later they still pounding it without breaking a sweat - and I feel like death after 2 minutes.

Anyhow so its ok to go to gym with sore muscles but just do a light walk - which is what I usually do anyhow

My first ever 5km "run" was 43 minutes. I am now doing it in half that time around 15 months later. I was overweight, asthmatic and a pack a day smoker. My short runs have turned into doing Ironman. Running is a gateway drug. Enjoy the process, and stay consistent and you won't believe what you can accomplish. Something so seemingly small changed my life in a big way.

 

[Venomous]

Magnesium and potasium supplements daily, even if you don't run.

Continue to take your multi-vitamin if you are taking one.

 

[znh]

It sounds like you one of those people I see at gym that get on a treadmill and 50 minutes later they still pounding it without breaking a sweat )

That pretty much describes how I run... though I do not do dreadmill. I can easily keep it up for 21Km, I do not eat anything before 21Km, I only drink water during the run.
I have done a couple of Marathons, Oceans and Comrades


I will gladly share my running secrets

 

[Emjay]

Muscle soreness usually happens when muscles do not have enough oxygen while performing. So I would recommend that you lower the intensity of your running till you get fitter and your body gets better at extracting and delivering the oxygen you need.
Frequest slow jogs would be the best way to get your body adapted to a 5Km.
The speed should be slow enough that you can keep chatting to a person in full sentences.
Huffing and puffing is a sign that you have an oxygen deficit.

While your legs are sore it is fine to keep on (slow) running as this will promote blood flow and help to get rid of the lactic build-up. I would also recommend that you increase your water intake to +- 1.5l per day, the blood will transport the waste products to your kidneys and the water will help to flush them out.

This is very, very incorrect. When we exercise, two things come into play: our muscular and cardiovascular systems. When we exercise, the muscle fibers are damaged. Increased strength actually comes from the muscle healing after this damage. It is called delayed onset muscle soreness or DOMS. You will hear bodybuilders talk about it often. Thankfully, it does go away after some time.

Fitness (think aerobic fitness) comes from capillary and mitochondrial adaptations, which allow the body to become more efficient in delivering energy to the muscles, and becoming more efficient in using lactic acid (the liver converts it to glucose).

The huffing and puffing means that we have reached our vo2max/lactic acid threshold i.e. the limit in terms of how much oxygen our bodies can consume to sustain exercise. We can increase our vo2max by doing tempo / threshold work, and through nice and easy zone 2 heart rate workouts. But the best way to get faster is to do these really hard runs that push us to our limit (like sprints). Think vomit inducing.

The best running program will incorporate speed and endurance work.

 

[lived666]

My first ever 5km "run" was 43 minutes. I am now doing it in half that time around 15 months later. I was overweight, asthmatic and a pack a day smoker. My short runs have turned into doing Ironman. Running is a gateway drug. Enjoy the process, and stay consistent and you won't believe what you can accomplish. Something so seemingly small changed my life in a big way.

I was just under 42 minutes - was soo sure it was going to be a sub 40. My target is 30 but atm that appears to be wishful thinking on my part.

Though 3 weeks ago it was 51mins - yeah I basically just walked it with my dog.

 

[Werfetter]

Not quite the expert like Emjay but I have heard some pretty good things about the "couch to 5k" program. Worth having a look if you are looking for something...

 

[Pitbull]

I hate running - just not able to do it, but I have set myself a challenge to run 5km within 8 weeks.

Anyhow this Saturday at the parkrun I managed to run the first 1.5km and then walk/run the rest - by run I mean slow jog.

Anyhow thigh muscles are in agony - I went to do a gentle swim yesterday but what is the best remedy - should I go and do some treadmill walking while the pain is there or do I need to wait a few days for it to pass and then start my treadmill "training" again.

I alternate between running/walking 5km on the treadmill a few times a week to try and build up running stamina for the parkruns.

Pro tip: Take a disprin or two after a hard workout. It thins the blood and will decrease recovery time.

As for the sore body, day 3 is the worse, from there on it returns to normal. Nothing you can really do about it, but the more you work the muscles, the less the pain becomes till it just goes numb and you have no more pain from strenuous activities. The reason you have sore muscles is because you used muscles in a way they are not used to being worked so they tear a little. They heal and then tear again this continues till it has healed in a way to be ok with being used for what you need it for, like running.

 

[lived666]

Not quite the expert like Emjay but I have heard some pretty good things about the "couch to 5k" program. Worth having a look if you are looking for something...

Yeah I am loosely basing my running (slow jog) on this concept - I have the app but I dont follow exactly - but sort of

 

[Werfetter]

Yeah I am loosely basing my running (slow jog) on this concept - I have the app but I dont follow exactly - but sort of

Well then you probably have a very decent starting place. Just stick to it. I remember having trouble walking after getting back into some casual running. After about two weeks you will hardly notice the DOMS even though they are still there. The intensity of the DOMS do seem to decrease the more you exercise. That is just my experience.

 

[Emjay]

I was just under 42 minutes - was soo sure it was going to be a sub 40. My target is 30 but atm that appears to be wishful thinking on my part.

Though 3 weeks ago it was 51mins - yeah I basically just walked it with my dog.

Why the sad face?

Dude, that's awesome. Don't ever put yourself down. Mark my words. You will get to your goal time. Find a plan and follow it. It's great for confidence and motivation. Nailing a workout is a great feeling, and helps you celebrate smaller successes. A big goal like a sub-30 minute 5km takes time. Having smaller milestones and goals along the way will help keep you focused.

http://www.coachmag.co.uk/5k-traini...8-week-couch-to-5k-training-plan-for-everyone

Remember: you are lapping everyone on the couch.

 

[karnuffel]

I was in a similar boat. Im at the point where I can do a parkrun in under 40 minutes, but I feel like dying the next day. I found drinking 32GI recover after a hectic run does help. That and standing in the (fsking) cold pool for a few minutes....

 

[Sepeng]

OP,

so while not nearly in the league of Emjay and znh and think they've given great advice so far, I'll just add my two cents.
I also started out beginning of the year, got up to 5km in say 33 minutes, then a friend signed us up for a 10km; I "think" I tried to cram too much practice in to get ready and had terrible shin splints during and after the race. I read up on it and pretty much what I read said don't try do too much too quickly. I've got that Nike running app and when it creates a schedule for you at first it seems too easy - I initially ignored it and did double what it said. Now I'm practicing for the 21km Soweto marathon and I'm gonna follow it's schedule.
Also, shoes play a big role. I went to the Sweat Shop, got advice, and then bought the shoe a generation or two older than what they recommended (to save a few rands).

Good luck with it.

 

[znh]

This is very, very incorrect. When we exercise, two things come into play: our muscular and cardiovascular systems. When we exercise, the muscle fibers are damaged. Increased strength actually comes from the muscle healing after this damage. It is called delayed onset muscle soreness or DOMS. You will hear bodybuilders talk about it often. Thankfully, it does go away after some time.

Fitness (think aerobic fitness) comes from capillary and mitochondrial adaptations, which allow the body to become more efficient in delivering energy to the muscles, and becoming more efficient in using lactic acid (the liver converts it to glucose).

The huffing and puffing means that we have reached our vo2max/lactic acid threshold i.e. the limit in terms of how much oxygen our bodies can consume to sustain exercise. We can increase our vo2max by doing tempo / threshold work, and through nice and easy zone 2 heart rate workouts. But the best way to get faster is to do these really hard runs that push us to our limit (like sprints). Think vomit inducing.

The best running program will incorporate speed and endurance work.

Why you are mostly correct, you are getting to technical to the person that just started running
One correction: Glycogen is used in his case, lactate has got to do with the acidity of the cells and the waste product of energy expenditure (which causes DOMS), but this was not a medical forum and beyond the scope.

Anyways OP: I would not recommend doing speed work until you sufficiently fit and have reached a plateau. Going out too hard too soon will lead to injuries. Your body will need time to adjust and become tougher. Congrats on your parkrun times, I know several people that started off with Parkrun and ended up running Comrades, it is a journey

 

[Emjay]

Why you are mostly correct, you are getting to technical to the person that just started running
One correction: Glycogen is used in his case, lactate has got to do with the acidity of the cells and the waste product of energy expenditure (which causes DOMS), but this was not a medical forum and beyond the scope.

Anyways OP: I would not recommend doing speed work until you sufficiently fit and have reached a plateau. Going out too hard too soon will lead to injuries. Your body will need time to adjust and become tougher. Congrats on your parkrun times, I know several people that started off with Parkrun and ended up running Comrades, it is a journey

Just because it is not a medical forum does not mean we shouldn't give the correct information.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_onset_muscle_soreness

The soreness is felt most strongly 24 to 72 hours after the exercise.[1][2]:63 It is thought to be caused by eccentric (lengthening) exercise, which causes small-scale damage (microtrauma) to the muscle fibers. After such exercise, the muscle adapts rapidly to prevent muscle damage, and thereby soreness, if the exercise is repeated

.

The burning sensation in muscles is caused by lactic acid buildup. When the body reaches it's lactate threshold, then that pain starts. The lactate threshold is pretty much at the same point as vo2max.

Not that technical, but if anyone is interested:

https://www.active.com/triathlon/articles/lactate-threshold-and-v02-max-explained

Lactate has gotten a bad rap for the past several decades. Many refer to it as a metabolic waste product (not really) and blame it for the muscle soreness that can plague us several days after a hard workout (not so, actually inflammation).

The Cori cycle (also known as the Lactic acid cycle), named after its discoverers, Carl Ferdinand Cori and Gerty Cori,[1] refers to the metabolic pathway in which lactate produced by anaerobic glycolysis in the muscles moves to the liver and is converted to glucose, which then returns to the muscles and is metabolized back to lactate.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cori_cycle

I have used the services of some of the best coaches in SA because I knew nothing about any of the sports in triathlon. I am a technical person, so I ask "why" all the time, and want to understand how adaptations occur, and under what conditions. All the programs I looked at started with speed work right at the start of the program. lived666 already has sufficient fitness, and he is starting to think about his running in more technical terms (how to improve recovery). For new runners, speed gains will pretty much come by just running, so I agree with you on the just run principle. But the quickest path to getting faster is incorporating speed work. That is why I have said he should follow a structured plan. He can use his own discretion as to what is good for him, and how far he is pushing himself.

 

[lived666]

Thanks guys some interesting tips here but still dont know whats the best for aching muscles - is it better to wait for the pain to subside in a few days or battle through the pain and keep training the next day, would this cause any muscle damage?

Basically should I go to gym later today and try and run a bit or do a gentle treadmill walk or stay at home and watch tv?