Pitbull
Verboten
Rest, let the pain subside then train again. Give it about 4/5 days
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Muscle recovery question - running.
- Thread starter lived666
- Start date
Rest, let the pain subside then train again. Give it about 4/5 days
You should only be running max 3 to 4 times a week at the moment. If it is slightly stiff and painful, you will be fine to do whatever workout you want. If it's very bad, like even sore to touch, rather take the day off or do some strength work in your upper body.
DOMS should subside in around 48 hours. If it takes longer, eat more protein for faster recovery.
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Lactate threshold is absolutely not the same thing as VO2max... Lactate threshold is the maximum sustainable effort whereas VO2max is a 100% flat-out effort. Not the same thing at all (although very well trained athletes can get a lactate threshold heart rate that approaches their VO2max heart rate but it will still be lower).
Definitely do a light walk and a stretch/massage/foam roller. Will help a lot. But not another proper workout, something very light (as in you should not be out of breath while doing it)
lived666
Executive Member
Walking up the steps to the gym normally does that but yeah...light work out it is.
Maybe you should read the links I posted... I meant that untrained athletes tend to reach lactate threshold and vo2max around the same time.
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sore muscles are part of the business in the beginnig
Personally, I have found the following helps
1. Sports massage (this is by far the best way I have found for recovery, but it comes at a cost)
2. stretching, both static and dynamic. I never did static stretching before any exercise or other warm-ups,
3. Compression
4. Light exercise the following day usually worked as well
Personally, I have found the following helps
1. Sports massage (this is by far the best way I have found for recovery, but it comes at a cost)
2. stretching, both static and dynamic. I never did static stretching before any exercise or other warm-ups,
3. Compression
4. Light exercise the following day usually worked as well
I have the same goal, to be able to run my first 5km non-stop. Joined a running group and literally started in the 1st week with walk 1 min, run 1 min x 10. We are up to walk 2 mins, run 12 mins x 2 in after 7 weeks. Last Thursday we did a 'long' run, 3km and I finished it in under 24 mins. Slow yes, but speed is not my goal atm. Our coach advises to always start with a walk (warm-up) and as for stretching, I don't stretch cold muscles.
None of the links that you posted suggest that VO2max and lactate threshold are the same (or similar) regardless of training level... (In fact the only example that is given is an athlete who reaches lactate threshold at 84% of VO2max)
Either way, they measure completely different things.
Bobbin
Honorary Master
Although I am by no means an athlete or pro I have actually come to view running as a break from the rest of my workout 
I'm obviously doing it wrong lol.
Unfortunately I think that running for distance vs. improving your overall pace counter one another in terms of training. You can probably run "all day" if you jog with very small paces at a slow speed. And you can "train" this every time you run and complete 5km without stopping eventually - but your overall pace (Completing the run in less time) is unlikely to improve drastically once you're conditioned this way. This would just train you to sustain the impact and steady aerobic work for longer. To improve your overall pace you'd probably need to push yourself hard and fast to the limits, meaning you'd not run very far on these training days. Then check if you can sustain a better pace on a long run day. Hope that makes sense but as I'm not a pro I'd also heed any criticism of this post.
As per https://www.acefitness.org/educatio...-about-aerobic-capacity-and-how-to-improve-it
I'm obviously doing it wrong lol.Unfortunately I think that running for distance vs. improving your overall pace counter one another in terms of training. You can probably run "all day" if you jog with very small paces at a slow speed. And you can "train" this every time you run and complete 5km without stopping eventually - but your overall pace (Completing the run in less time) is unlikely to improve drastically once you're conditioned this way. This would just train you to sustain the impact and steady aerobic work for longer. To improve your overall pace you'd probably need to push yourself hard and fast to the limits, meaning you'd not run very far on these training days. Then check if you can sustain a better pace on a long run day. Hope that makes sense but as I'm not a pro I'd also heed any criticism of this post.
As per https://www.acefitness.org/educatio...-about-aerobic-capacity-and-how-to-improve-it
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Yes. They are different, as I have said so in a few posts now. I am making the assumption that an athlete hits lactate threshold around the same time as vo2max, as that is generally my experience, even when cycling. I think it would be easier to go further into oxygen debt before hitting lactate threshold actually. Think suprathreshold intervals. But, my take is all anecdotal and based off experiences in my own training.
You are not wrong at all. The idea is to go really slow on slow days, and crazy fast on fast days.
A well rounded weekly program for someone new would be something like:
Intervals - 15 minute warm up jog with some strides, 6 x 250m run at 20 seconds less than threshold pace, 30 seconds walking rest between, 15 minute cool down.
LSD - Long Slow Distance - 10 minute warm up, 30 minute steady state run in zone 2, 10 minute cool down jog / walk.
Hill Repeats - 15 minute warm up jog, 4 x 200m run uphill then slow and easy run downhill, 15 minute cool down.
5km Trail run at race pace.
There is literature to back up doing a lot of lower intensity workouts (80 low intensity, 10 moderate and 10 high), but for a time crunched person, it is not really possible. Many pros do the majority of their training in lower intensity stuff.
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And I'm saying that your assumption that they occur at the same time is empirically and demonstrably wrong. For cycling specifically, VO2max is generally found to be between 105% and 120% of FTP. So VO2max is between 5% and 20% higher than Lactate Threshold from a power perspective which is certainly not "at the same time".
Put another way, VO2max is equivalent to a 5 - 8 minute maximum effort while Lactate Threshold is defined as a 60 minute maximum effort. And there is no way on earth that you can logically suggest that the power or heart rates or any other metric of those two efforts will be the same.
As a real-world example of the above, my 8 minute maximum heart rate and power are 180bpm and 257w respectively while my 60 minute maxes are 165bpm and 226w respectively. All measured while cycling.
Linkies:
https://support.wattbike.com/hc/en-us/articles/115001848349-Functional-Threshold-Power-FTP-Training-Zones
https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/power-training-levels/
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Nice thread with some good info. I'll share what i've learnt in my brief running stint.
I am overweight so my times are also slow. I run roughly 2x a week (sometimes 1). based on my April + may, its 25km per month.
I just started jogging slowly working up my stamina, around 3km runs 2x a week and then just upped my distances.
After 1 month I can do a 5km now in about 34-37 min depending.
When my legs are sore i try to do other exercises, bodyweights + core (situps, push ups, planking etc.) and just let my muscles recovery, by day 3 or 4 i can go for a run again.
Stairs + HIIT (Sprints + walking) have also helped me a lot in have less sore muscles after runs.
My shoes just broke last week with the sole coming off and i found that they were completely wrong for my running style and i was getting shin splints often, gonna go buy me a new pair soon, so excited
One of the biggest things that improved my running for me is fasting. When i run in a fasted state (about 18-20 hours of fasting) i can push about 1.5x harder. so 5km in 34min vs 5km in 38 min.
I am overweight so my times are also slow. I run roughly 2x a week (sometimes 1). based on my April + may, its 25km per month.
I just started jogging slowly working up my stamina, around 3km runs 2x a week and then just upped my distances.
After 1 month I can do a 5km now in about 34-37 min depending.
When my legs are sore i try to do other exercises, bodyweights + core (situps, push ups, planking etc.) and just let my muscles recovery, by day 3 or 4 i can go for a run again.
Stairs + HIIT (Sprints + walking) have also helped me a lot in have less sore muscles after runs.
My shoes just broke last week with the sole coming off and i found that they were completely wrong for my running style and i was getting shin splints often, gonna go buy me a new pair soon, so excited
One of the biggest things that improved my running for me is fasting. When i run in a fasted state (about 18-20 hours of fasting) i can push about 1.5x harder. so 5km in 34min vs 5km in 38 min.
Thank you. Those links make sense. I was confusing blood lactate accumulation with lactate threshold.
When it comes to running there is no right or wrong things to do, there is mixed research like stretching before or after, you kind of need to listen to your body and the recovery time is as important as consistency.
I went from the occasional runs to doing ultra marathons and was lucky to avoid injury while my running partner off the same base has had more time off on injuries than time to actually run. A good guideline is the 10% rule. Once you have a comfortable base try not improve pace, distance or time by more than 10% from one week to the next. This helps your body to adapt to the strain. Often my best runs or races are after a chilled week before which allows me to push harder. Most people say they are not runners but once you get into and build up a small level of fitness its actually a great way to meet people and de-stress during those training runs. Good luck and just enjoy it!
I went from the occasional runs to doing ultra marathons and was lucky to avoid injury while my running partner off the same base has had more time off on injuries than time to actually run. A good guideline is the 10% rule. Once you have a comfortable base try not improve pace, distance or time by more than 10% from one week to the next. This helps your body to adapt to the strain. Often my best runs or races are after a chilled week before which allows me to push harder. Most people say they are not runners but once you get into and build up a small level of fitness its actually a great way to meet people and de-stress during those training runs. Good luck and just enjoy it!
lived666
Executive Member
Well after today's park run I dont have any thigh muscle pain, which is great, last week was horrendous. Calves feel a tad tight/heavy for lack of a better description.
My 5km time is still horrendously slow, I wasn't able to run/jog more than the first 1.5km then afterwards was a bit of a walk/run/walk type of effort. I will have to try and work on stamina - I dont know where runners find this endless what looks like no effort ability to just run for days.
My 5km time is still horrendously slow, I wasn't able to run/jog more than the first 1.5km then afterwards was a bit of a walk/run/walk type of effort. I will have to try and work on stamina - I dont know where runners find this endless what looks like no effort ability to just run for days.
I was just under 42 minutes - was soo sure it was going to be a sub 40. My target is 30 but atm that appears to be wishful thinking on my part.
Though 3 weeks ago it was 51mins - yeah I basically just walked it with my dog.
When I started Parkrun, I'd run when I could and walk when I couldn't. My first was 42 min, and for months, it hurt afterwards for days. It got better though, as I got fitter. It took a year for me to run the entire 5K.
Just time on the road/trail etc. Speed doesn't matter, just be out there and be running and on your feet. Endurance comes with time.
Ran a lot when I was in school. Starting to get back into it now. Here is my slow start training log.
