MWEB Gaming Feedback

Lounger he has answered your question in more than one post but you seem unable to understand what he says

They had gaming in the normal pool with browsing and mail in a higher pool taking priority
Which they never tried to hide


Now they put gaming in the priority pool(which they don't have to do) but there is still issues with certain traffic for certain games getting allocated incorrectly
WOW and Guild Wars is the main reported ones from what I can see

They are actively trying to fix that

So what questions is unclear to you?
 
Lounger said:
I think company reps are great to have on the forum. Where it starts to get irritating is when they are less than open about what their company is doing or they give a false impression to make their company look good. In Will's case, he's just refusing to answer a very basic question (x2). The thinking on his part (presumably) is that it will make his company look bad if he answers fully and frankly.

I would rather reps in general were here to help, rather than promote their products to the hilt. We are a knowlegeable bunch with a keen interest in technology, so we aren't easily fooled. Why do they even try ...?

The reaction he's getting is not even close to the "cr@p" category. In fact it's pretty mild considering the level of BS eminating from Mweb. Answer the questions please and stop giving us the "We'll look into it" routine. We never hear the outcome of the original problem and it doesn't help anyone that way.
Click to expand...

Lounger, Will has responded ( in my view adequately ) about Mweb's view regarding shaped vs. unshaped. even though we may not entirely agree withe their approach. Nevertheless Mweb has now moved online gaming traffic into the "totally unshaped" pool according to what Will said in one of his last posts. So unless you're implying that Will lied about that , I don't see how it could still be unclear really.

What I would like to get clarity on now , is what is causing the lag to kick in at exactly 18:00 in the evenings , it has to be triggered by something in Mweb's traffic handling protocols at specific times. That's where the real problem lies from what I gather.
 
All I can say to the last 3 pages is now I remember why I stopped playing WoW - MMOers are far too uptight :p

In any event while you guys were spending all this time thinking up names for me and each other I have been busy petitioning on your behalf to try and make further adjustment to network settings to see if we can get you guys raiding again. We have an action plan now which involves some cautious optimization of traffic pools in the evenings to see if we can give the gaming traffic more headroom.
Unfortunately change controls have to be adhered to for this so we will be making the first change at 06h00 tomorrow morning and monitor from there based on your experience tomorrow night.

I'd also like to ask if some of you could please provide me with some tangible evidence to work with - command line pings and traces aren't telling the whole story, so some screenshots of your in game latency meters would do nicely, preferably a before picture from tonight and then tomorrow night so we can see if there is any improvement. The people I have to convince that this tinkering is justified, quite understandably, would like to have a bit more than verbal feedback as an indication of what the problem is.

Kind Regards
Will
 
Will@MWEB said:
All I can say to the last 3 pages is now I remember why I stopped playing WoW - MMOers are far too uptight :p

In any event while you guys were spending all this time thinking up names for me and each other I have been busy petitioning on your behalf to try and make further adjustment to network settings to see if we can get you guys raiding again. We have an action plan now which involves some cautious optimization of traffic pools in the evenings to see if we can give the gaming traffic more headroom.
Unfortunately change controls have to be adhered to for this so we will be making the first change at 06h00 tomorrow morning and monitor from there based on your experience tomorrow night.

I'd also like to ask if some of you could please provide me with some tangible evidence to work with - command line pings and traces aren't telling the whole story, so some screenshots of your in game latency meters would do nicely, preferably a before picture from tonight and then tomorrow night so we can see if there is any improvement. The people I have to convince that this tinkering is justified, quite understandably, would like to have a bit more than verbal feedback as an indication of what the problem is.

Kind Regards
Will
Click to expand...

Will I would like to thank you for your hard work in this matter, though i don't play WoW o.O I'm a DotA player and most times i like to play international :/.
 
Will@MWEB said:
All I can say to the last 3 pages is now I remember why I stopped playing WoW - MMOers are far too uptight :p

In any event while you guys were spending all this time thinking up names for me and each other I have been busy petitioning on your behalf to try and make further adjustment to network settings to see if we can get you guys raiding again. We have an action plan now which involves some cautious optimization of traffic pools in the evenings to see if we can give the gaming traffic more headroom.
Unfortunately change controls have to be adhered to for this so we will be making the first change at 06h00 tomorrow morning and monitor from there based on your experience tomorrow night.

I'd also like to ask if some of you could please provide me with some tangible evidence to work with - command line pings and traces aren't telling the whole story, so some screenshots of your in game latency meters would do nicely, preferably a before picture from tonight and then tomorrow night so we can see if there is any improvement. The people I have to convince that this tinkering is justified, quite understandably, would like to have a bit more than verbal feedback as an indication of what the problem is.

Kind Regards
Will
Click to expand...

i wasnt taking a stab at you, you're great (seriously no sarcasm). Your company however is a different story. Since your shapers are "intelligent" why doesn't someone wireshark packets being sent to the wow server, when i used to be part of mangos team (wow emulation), wow traffic has a specific signature in the packet. If you need this information and hex dumps on said packets, such as raid packets, authentication packets, character screens etc..i can supply them. But basically they pretty much all identical minus the OPCode used to determine what must be done. The raid packets are a bit more tricky as they tend to be bundled together with a upper signature packet denoting what they do. But as far as i remember they have a header packet.

As you've stated tracerts are not decent, they able to determine if theres a hiccup on route. But its very situational, i.e. i have 198ms tracerts, in game i get 8K ms. When the traffic starts pumping, the lines become saturated and start loosing them.
 
@TheGrimReaper

Thanks :) Is the DotA experience also affected in the evenings?
 
@semaphore, thanks for that info and the compliment :), However identifying the WoW traffic itself is not the issue.
The traffic managers we use have an extensive library of traffic signatures and we have checked to ensure that both WoW and Guildwars are being correctly categorized as gaming traffic.

The only exception to this was the anomaly I saw yesterday which showed some traffic running side by side with WoW that was being classed as bitorrent.
I am going to ignore this for now as the consensus here seems to be that the streaming will only take place if the patch is not fully downloaded, which means I must assume that my tester was mistaken about this.

If we reach a situation where GuildWars has no further issues and WoW is still problematic then we can revisit the possible issues surrounding the patch and re look at it.

Kind Regards
Will
 
@Will,

Dunno what you guys did, im at work at the moment but got a friend playing now and he has a 277 ping in dalaran, hope this keeps going, I will post my ping here when I log on tonight, Dunno what you did but it worked for me :D, thanks a lot. Hope this will not degrade when I get home 12 AM tonight :D
 
That's very good (and interesting) news piet. As I said we can only make changes again at 06h00 so whatever your friend is experiencing now is not due to anything we changed today. Let's see what everyone else has to say.
 
Yeah I will check tonight as well and give feedback, this is really odd as we use the same account...
 
The same mweb account or the same wow account?
Please do ask if your friend maybe logged another ISP or if he used a tunneling service and which one if possible :)

Same here still, 2k ms, logged on at 7 thou, so cant say for sure how it was at 6:15.
 
i see gog.com (direct download) is still being shaped to 100K flat on my 4 mweb line using @dslmweb. i'll take a good bet that @mweb will have it go max speed.

getting from:
http://wpc.11df.edgecastcdn.net/0011DF/secure/

edit:
for what it's worth ( but we all know the problem here is shaping )
tracert wpc.11df.edgecastcdn.net

Tracing route to ne1.wpc.edgecastcdn.net [93.184.221.133]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms . [10.10.10.1]
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 12 ms 12 ms 11 ms tengig-0-0-0-104.vic-ipc-2.mweb.co.za [196.22.16
3.218]
4 12 ms 12 ms 11 ms vl-92.vic-hscore-2.mweb.co.za [196.22.189.3]
5 36 ms 62 ms 32 ms tengig-0-0-0-0-12.vic-up-1.mweb.co.za [196.22.16
9.241]
6 12 ms 12 ms 11 ms rrba-ip-hsll-1-wan.telkom-ipnet.co.za [196.25.8.
249]
7 206 ms 206 ms 205 ms lon-ip-dir-telecity-gig-4-0-1025.telkom-ipnet.co
.za [196.43.18.121]
8 222 ms 221 ms 226 ms ge-6-2-903.car5.London1.Level3.net [212.113.10.6
9]
9 222 ms 222 ms 221 ms ae-14-51.car3.London1.Level3.net [4.69.139.68]
10 220 ms 220 ms 221 ms 195.50.90.150
11 220 ms 221 ms 220 ms ne1.wpc.edgecastcdn.net [93.184.221.133]

Trace complete.
Click to expand...

...for captain obvious, i am using a download manager ;)
 
Last edited:
@Sillicur

we useing the same mweb account, but i asked him now and TH is offline so will ask when its back online, we stay in Durbanville and we use WTFast as a proxy service. the last time he checked it was 277 in dala, one hour ago :(
 
LikeItIs said:
Lounger, Will has responded ( in my view adequately ) about Mweb's view regarding shaped vs. unshaped. even though we may not entirely agree withe their approach. Nevertheless Mweb has now moved online gaming traffic into the "totally unshaped" pool according to what Will said in one of his last posts. So unless you're implying that Will lied about that , I don't see how it could still be unclear really.

What I would like to get clarity on now , is what is causing the lag to kick in at exactly 18:00 in the evenings , it has to be triggered by something in Mweb's traffic handling protocols at specific times. That's where the real problem lies from what I gather.
Click to expand...

We aren't getting a proper explanation about shaping. On earlier threads, MWeb says they aren't shaping games. Now they say games are in a limited pool. I don't see the difference if games are given a low priority. In fact that's exactly what shaping is. That "pool" could be a toddlers paddling pool for all we know ... ;-)
 
Will@MWEB said:
@semaphore, thanks for that info and the compliment :), However identifying the WoW traffic itself is not the issue.
The traffic managers we use have an extensive library of traffic signatures and we have checked to ensure that both WoW and Guildwars are being correctly categorized as gaming traffic.

The only exception to this was the anomaly I saw yesterday which showed some traffic running side by side with WoW that was being classed as bitorrent.
I am going to ignore this for now as the consensus here seems to be that the streaming will only take place if the patch is not fully downloaded, which means I must assume that my tester was mistaken about this.

If we reach a situation where GuildWars has no further issues and WoW is still problematic then we can revisit the possible issues surrounding the patch and re look at it.

Kind Regards
Will
Click to expand...

Just want to mention with regards to this, I am fully patched up but I noticed during my play last night (after a wipe), I noticed the green circular icon on the top of my screen that I moused over that indicated that it was downloading content. It's possible that even after doing the patch there is still some P2P content left to do.

Logged on this evening at about 19:30 - latency is about 8k to 11k ms. Switched over to my Axxess spare account and have latency of 600-800ms.
 
eish....dunno what is going on, my buddie just logged onto his account (wow account), he is getting a 246 ms ping.....I hope this stays like this 4ever for meh xD ./dances
 
Lounger I'm really sorry. I have done my best to explain these concepts to you, however I'm afraid that these matters are extremely complex and require a fair degree of technical insight to grasp. Please trust me when I say that we will endeavour to give gaming traffic the best treatment possible and don't concern yourself with the technicalities as they are clearly causing you a great deal of stress, which was not my intention when attempting to explain this.
 
Firstly I dont play WoW anymore because of the kids in it - i'm not here trying to sort out the latency issues for me it is for my kid who complains about the latency, unfortunately some kids have somehow creaped from WoW onto this forum and totally destroyed this thread - please go away and play with your toys.

Back on topic, a big thank you to Will and your commitment to resolving these issues.

Tonight was terrible latency again, but this was the same on "another service provider that hangs on to a monopoly".

Maybe nobody has noticed but - there is a big message on the WoW login screen about there being major network issues, fixes being applied etc. So maybe today isnt a good time to access the situation.
 
Last edited:
vinnigepiet said:
@Sillicur

we useing the same mweb account, but i asked him now and TH is offline so will ask when its back online, we stay in Durbanville and we use WTFast as a proxy service. the last time he checked it was 277 in dala, one hour ago :(
Click to expand...

Oh cool, good to know, very good actually cause im using the WTfast proxy too. Gonna log in when TH is back up (im on TH too !!!) and check what my MS is now. Btw, are u using a 384 line or higher?
Edit: When you log on with WTfast, do use tick the option "log in with my own IP" or do u have it unticked :)
 
Sash said:
Firstly I dont play WoW anymore because of the kids in it - i'm not here trying to sort out the latency issues for me it is for my kid who complains about the latency, unfortunately some kids have somehow creaped from WoW onto this forum and totally destroyed this thread - please go away and play with your toys.

Back on topic, a big thank you to Will and your commitment to resolving these issues.

Tonight was terrible latency again, but this was the same on "another service provider that hangs on to a monopoly".

Maybe nobody has noticed but - there is a big message on the WoW login screen about there being major network issues, fixes being applied etc. So maybe today isnt a good time to access the situation.
Click to expand...

erm this whole latency issue is not about the network issues at blizz....this came before the network issues, and if you don't know they had maintenance this morning but they are fixing it.....
 
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