My R13000 Data Bill

[AK65]

FINAL, FINAL words:

I upgraded the firmware on the wireless access point - This got the MAC filtering working properly.....

I also implemented WPA-TKIP security with a passcode that includes words with random mix of uppercase and lowercase letters with numbers and @# characters. I could not remember it in a month of sundays.......

I am in the process of implementing a hard cap as well, which will cut the internet when the data bundle goes over by R50.00

Now my big question is this ......

I believe hard capping should be implemented by default.....
Whilst I am no expert in Network security, I have more knowledge than 99% of users who will be using 3G technology, and I had already implemented some degree of security, and I still got caught. I know a lot of people who have totally open networks, or ones where the WEP codes and the router passwords were still set to factory defaults - what about them???

I am grateful that at least I have been given a 50% reprieve, but the network also needs to review their policies perhaps to have caps as defaults instead of user having to do this. The default situation is an open chequebook - which I don't think is a healthy opening position for non net-savvy customers.

And finally, to all who may have been offended by a brattish, self-righteous attitude, my sincere apologies, but a 13000 bill tends to make the most even tempered customer a bit cranky....

 

[xrapidx]

Exactly - imagine if banks had the same policy - here's a credit card with no limits, go have fun.

 

[vodacom3g]

Exactly - imagine if banks had the same policy - here's a credit card with no limits, go have fun.

Banks don't need to count your spending in milli-second timeslots

Actually, it's a bit of a fallacy that VC will allow you to run up a massive bill. What's the use of letting you run up a huge bill when you can't pay it in any case?

Even with the BMW competition, people were cut off when they exceeded a certain value (something the press never picked up on when all the focus was on the competition, BTW). That old omie who 'got bailed out by another network', was cut off 3 times for example. Paid his bill every time and then played again.

The problem here is the speed at which you can run up a large bill with HSDPA. It's often much faster than the time taken to detect it. Even if you automate it, you can seriously run over in the 3-hours+ it takes the systems to detect it.

When we built the new pre-paid system, it was designed to be real-time and we're in the process of doing the same for contract.

 

[pkid]

FINAL, FINAL words:

I upgraded the firmware on the wireless access point - This got the MAC filtering working properly.....

I also implemented WPA-TKIP security with a passcode that includes words with random mix of uppercase and lowercase letters with numbers and @# characters. I could not remember it in a month of sundays.......

I am in the process of implementing a hard cap as well, which will cut the internet when the data bundle goes over by R50.00

Now my big question is this ......

I believe hard capping should be implemented by default.....
Whilst I am no expert in Network security, I have more knowledge than 99% of users who will be using 3G technology, and I had already implemented some degree of security, and I still got caught. I know a lot of people who have totally open networks, or ones where the WEP codes and the router passwords were still set to factory defaults - what about them???

I am grateful that at least I have been given a 50% reprieve, but the network also needs to review their policies perhaps to have caps as defaults instead of user having to do this. The default situation is an open chequebook - which I don't think is a healthy opening position for non net-savvy customers.

And finally, to all who may have been offended by a brattish, self-righteous attitude, my sincere apologies, but a 13000 bill tends to make the most even tempered customer a bit cranky....

I had a thought last night. Couldn't you just not pay the bill and say you can't afford to. Doesn't the new national credit act make them set a credit limit that you can afford? I mean R13 000 is out of the reach of most people after they have paid off their houses etc. Any lawyers here?

 

[xrapidx]

Fair enough, and I'm not blaming just Vodacom, but the networks can at least be more customer friendly, and when something like this happens, rather let the customer pay for 3 or 4 bundles, instead of out of bundle rates... it isn't like they do it intentionally (most of the time).

With regards to the BMW competition, I fully believe that that was the customers own fault for being an idiot, you physically have to push "Send SMS", it wasn't automated....and I also wouldn't be suprised if the other network put the old oomie up to it... the brand is known for those types of publicity tricks.

 

[vodacom3g]

Fair enough, and I'm not blaming just Vodacom, but the networks can at least be more customer friendly, and when something like this happens, rather let the customer pay for 3 or 4 bundles, instead of out of bundle rates... it isn't like they do it intentionally (most of the time).

The guys do listen and try and help where it makes sense, like the 50% off in this case.

With regards to the BMW competition, I fully believe that that was the customers own fault for being an idiot, you physically have to push "Send SMS", it wasn't automated....and I also wouldn't be suprised if the other network put the old oomie up to it... the brand is known for those types of publicity tricks.

Agree, but in this specific case it was even worse. He overspent, got cut off, paid his bill, overspent again, got cut off again, paid his bill and then went ballistic so by the time he was cut off he was up to the number he moaned about and got "bailed out" as a publicity stunt. Of course the picture that was projected was of this poor old man who got taken by the evil corporation....

 

[xrapidx]

The guys do listen and try and help where it makes sense, like the 50% off in this case.

I saw that, and I actually said he probably wouldn't have gotten that at any other service provider.... I just think a more lenient approach of charging in-bundle rates on these sorts of mistakes would be more approprate, especially if it is obviously an accident, even with the 50% off, its still alot of money for a mistake. If I had an wrote off a R100,000 car in an accident the excess would be a third of the 50% off.

Agree, but in this specific case it was even worse. He overspent, got cut off, paid his bill, overspent again, got cut off again, paid his bill and then went ballistic so by the time he was cut off he was up to the number he moaned about and got "bailed out" as a publicity stunt. Of course the picture that was projected was of this poor old man who got taken by the evil corporation....

Yip... I followed it closely... I think anyone who does something deliberatly like this must pay. The price of the SMS was clearly advertised, if some bright spark doesnt know that sending 1200 SMS @ R10 is going to cost you R12,000... well then, you shouldn't be allowed to breath.

 

[vodacom3g]

I saw that, and I actually said he probably wouldn't have gotten that at any other service provider.... I just think a more lenient approach of charging in-bundle rates on these sorts of mistakes would be more approprate, especially if it is obviously an accident, even with the 50% off, its still alot of money for a mistake. If I had an wrote off a R100,000 car in an accident the excess would be a third of the 50% off.

How about making OOB = last IB a permanent feature? What would that do to your usage patterns?

 

[xrapidx]

How about making OOB = last IB a permanent feature? What would that do to your usage patterns?

Wait.. whats OOB and IB? Ignorance is me

 

[vodacom3g]

Wait.. whats OOB and IB? Ignorance is me

Out Of Bundle, In Bundle (ic-speak)

 

[xrapidx]

Out Of Bundle, In Bundle (ic-speak)

Thanks.

So you're saying permanatly making Out of Bundle = In Bundle, i.e. Out of Bundle cheaper? You'd probably find a lot more people downloading.... is that what you're getting at though?

If the concern is that people will abuse the network, its simple, you give a guy a once-off chance, like the above case, if he does it again, its his own problem for not learning a lesson.

At +-R350/2gb, I still woudn't abuse the network... cause 10gb will cost about R1750.

To me its just a more customer-friendly approach... the problem with the corporate these days is that they don't see their customers as human, they treat them like crap, even though your customer base is your income, unfortunatly these days there are so many customers that if one or even a thousand leave, it doesn't really make much of an impact on business.

 

[morkhans]

How about making OOB = last IB a permanent feature? What would that do to your usage patterns?

I am sure ic has asked for that one before! I think it's a great idea. It will a saviour for those people who run up monster OOB bills. You are also not going to be that worried if you overrun your bill by 100MB or so. I am sure a lot of people either loose a few MB each month because they don't want to pay OOB rates or end up paying more because they wanted to get the max bundle's worth.

I appreciate Vodacom's act of goodwill by halving the bill, but letting the customer rather purchase bundles would be a better solution. The difference to Vodacom in negligible, but it sure will make a huge difference to the customer, while still learning their lesson.

 

[ic]

Out Of Bundle, In Bundle (ic-speak)

LOL, infamy at last .

I am sure ic has asked for that one before!

Actually several forumites have suggested it, including v3g .

I also support the idea, but I remember having had some doubts about whether it would be easy for Vodacom to implement - my memory is a bit fuzzy on the subject, but have a look for posts by Csnoopy in this forum about Gogga Connect...

 

[bosun]

Just as a sanity check, did some calculations to see what kind of bills could be run up (@ R2/MB for OOB traffic) if ones connection was left up while some type of malicious (virus/trojan), unforseen (backround update) or other accidental traffic was being generated.

I've used a sustained average transfer rate of either 512Kbps or 1 Mbps for illustration (note these are conservative as both up & down bytes are counted). The time delay is the lapse between when your data bundle runs out and the monetary call limit has been physically applied on the network (i.e. disconnected) ...

Time            Cost          Cost
Delay           @512Kbps      @1Mbps
-----           --------      --------
1/2 hr          R225          R450
1 hr            R450          R900
3hr             R1,350        R2,700
6hr             R2,700        R5,400
12hr            R5,400        R10,800
24hr            R10,800       R21,600
36hr            R16,200       R32,400
48hr            R21,600       R43,200

If my calcs are right (think so?), then be careful out there!

Haven't checked the sums, but the math ain't that hard so I assume you are correct.
However - be aware that the call limit / credit limit is administered by your service provider, not by the network. So, you are relying on the SP to be up to date in their calls processing in order to be able to apply the limit lock.
Depending on the time of the month and what is happening on their system (e.g. month end, bill run, unscheduled downtime etc) calls processed into the SP's billing system can be delayed, so they might only know that you have exceeded your limit a day or more after you have done so. Given the numbers above, this can be quite a lot of money.
The call limits (from the SP point of view) are more a credit control system, to try to avoid massive overspend, and were designed in the days of voice only, when it was difficult to inadvertently run up a very large bill in a relatively short period of time. They are not designed to be, nor were ever intended to be, a means of "hard capping" a customer.


God help us all when 7.2 and above becomes available, then the numbers get truly scary really quickly

 

[bosun]

funny how they can make pre-paid cut off as soon as the cap is reached, but ask for them to set a limit, and it can go over for days and thousands of rands before they cut you off.

Not that funny, really.

Different companies, different billing systems.

Prepaid is run by Vodacom (Pty) Ltd

Contract is run by (amongst others)
Nashua
Autopage
Vodacom Service Provider.

These companies carry the risk, not Vodacom (Pty) Ltd, and make their own provisions for managing customers spend.

 

[vodacom3g]

Not that funny, really.

Different companies, different billing systems.

Prepaid is run by Vodacom (Pty) Ltd

Contract is run by (amongst others)
Nashua
Autopage
Vodacom Service Provider.

These companies carry the risk, not Vodacom (Pty) Ltd, and make their own provisions for managing customers spend.

Yes, valid point I've not highlighted. The billing relationship for contract is with the SP and not the network company.

 

[ic]

Yes, valid point I've not highlighted. The billing relationship for contract is with the SP and not the network company.

Do non-VSP [SP] companies like Nashua Mobile, Autopage Cellular, etc, actually provide a similar "Call Limit" service for CDBs?

 

[vodacom3g]

Do non-VSP [SP] companies like Nashua Mobile, Autopage Cellular, etc, actually provide a similar "Call Limit" service for CDBs?

Not sure, best to check with your SP.

 

[BBSA]

BTW, you can set the number to which VC send usage notifications via Vodacom4Me under the menu option Call Limits.

 

[SoftDev]

Very strange, my company uses a lot of the 3G cards for staff to after hour’s support, on one of these contracts we received a bill for R9000.00, according to the account the data usage responsible for this bill started on the 19th of March as well. We will take this up with our service provider Nashua, just very strange that is on the same day AK65's problem started.